Yahoo Groups archive
Thread
2003-07-25 by Steven Schaefer
I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to become familiar with the software. This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with this printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, would be greatly appreciated. Thanks Steve
2003-07-25 by Justin Florentine
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 I'm eagerly awaiting your results, Steve. I have the 2200 and am not satisfied with the Photorealistic technique outlined on the web for use with Epson inks, so I am thinking about saving up for ImagePrint. I'm currently trying to print without a RIP, and it's a little frustrating. Are you planning to use Epson inks in the 2200 with ImagePrint for your BW? Steven Schaefer wrote: |I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print |color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to |become familiar with the software. | |This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with this |printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, |would be greatly appreciated. | |Thanks | |Steve | | |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: | |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint | |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. | |Please follow these basic guidelines: |- Include your full name with your message. |- Include the address of your website, if you have one. |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames |- Complete your Yahoo profile. |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. | | | | |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/ITRou7srlnPHEE8RAua+AKCQ8NNFTm+N6ZwKDt/ivZ2DzOO2qQCfd4bi vAdg1hFGnwt2fWQUdpS06qQ= =03fW -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
2003-07-25 by Thomas Fors
Mitch Alland has created a tutorial on ImagePrint that you can find in the Articles section of the imagingrevue.com web site or in the Files area of the ImagePrint yahoo group. --Tom ----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Schaefer" <stevenr@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 7:26 AM Subject: [Digital BW] Image Print > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > become familiar with the software. > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with this > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, > would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > Steve >
2003-07-25 by Steven Schaefer
Hey Justin, yes I am using the epson inks. I have seen BW prints with this printer rip combination and there were dead on the money neutral. I will let you know how my prints look. Steve Justin Florentine wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > I'm eagerly awaiting your results, Steve. I have the 2200 and am not > satisfied with the Photorealistic technique outlined on the web for > use > with Epson inks, so I am thinking about saving up for ImagePrint. I'm > > currently trying to print without a RIP, and it's a little > frustrating. > > Are you planning to use Epson inks in the 2200 with ImagePrint for > your BW? > > Steven Schaefer wrote: > > |I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print > |color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > |become familiar with the software. > | > |This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > this > |printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, > |would be greatly appreciated. > | > |Thanks > | > |Steve > | > | > |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > | > |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > | > |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > same page. > | > |Please follow these basic guidelines: > |- Include your full name with your message. > |- Include the address of your website, if you have one. > |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > > keep them short. > |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames > |- Complete your Yahoo profile. > |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > | > | > | > | > |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > | > | > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/ITRou7srlnPHEE8RAua+AKCQ8NNFTm+N6ZwKDt/ivZ2DzOO2qQCfd4bi > vAdg1hFGnwt2fWQUdpS06qQ= > =03fW > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [Image] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2003-07-25 by Steven Schaefer
Thanks I will look it up Thomas Fors wrote:
> > Mitch Alland has created a tutorial on ImagePrint that you can find in > the > Articles section of the imagingrevue.com web site or in the Files area > of > the ImagePrint yahoo group. > > --Tom > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Steven Schaefer" <stevenr@...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 7:26 AM > Subject: [Digital BW] Image Print > > > > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to > print > > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > > become familiar with the software. > > > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > this > > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or > guidance, > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [Image] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2003-07-25 by Justin Florentine
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Good to hear about the neutrality. I'm particularly interested in how dithered the highlights are, and how bad the metamerism is. I've got some indoor/flash shots shot on 400 that look more grainy than normal, mostly just in the highlights. Could be film grain, but it doesn't look like it under the loupe. Steven Schaefer wrote: |Hey Justin, yes I am using the epson inks. I have seen BW prints with |this printer rip combination and there were dead on the money neutral. | |I will let you know how my prints look. | |Steve | |Justin Florentine wrote: | |>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- |>Hash: SHA1 |> |>I'm eagerly awaiting your results, Steve. I have the 2200 and am not |>satisfied with the Photorealistic technique outlined on the web for |>use |>with Epson inks, so I am thinking about saving up for ImagePrint. I'm |> |>currently trying to print without a RIP, and it's a little |>frustrating. |> |>Are you planning to use Epson inks in the 2200 with ImagePrint for |>your BW? |> |>Steven Schaefer wrote: |> |>|I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print |>|color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to |>|become familiar with the software. |>| |>|This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with |>this |>|printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, |>|would be greatly appreciated. |>| |>|Thanks |>| |>|Steve |>| |>| |>|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls |>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: |>| |>|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint |>| |>|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish |>to |>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this |>same page. |>| |>|Please follow these basic guidelines: |>|- Include your full name with your message. |>|- Include the address of your website, if you have one. |>|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to |> |>keep them short. |>|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject |>header. |>|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or |>flames |>|- Complete your Yahoo profile. |>|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the |>various resources on the homepage. |>| |>| |>| |>| |>|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to |>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ |>| |>| |> |>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- |>Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) |>Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org |> |>iD8DBQE/ITRou7srlnPHEE8RAua+AKCQ8NNFTm+N6ZwKDt/ivZ2DzOO2qQCfd4bi |>vAdg1hFGnwt2fWQUdpS06qQ= |>=03fW |>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- |> |> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor |> ADVERTISEMENT |> [Image] |> |> |> |>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls |>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: |> |>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint |> |>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish |>to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting |>this same page. |> |>Please follow these basic guidelines: |>- Include your full name with your message. |>- Include the address of your website, if you have one. |>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to |>keep them short. |>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject |>header. |>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames |>- Complete your Yahoo profile. |>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the |>various resources on the homepage. |> |>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. | | | |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: | |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint | |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. | |Please follow these basic guidelines: |- Include your full name with your message. |- Include the address of your website, if you have one. |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames |- Complete your Yahoo profile. |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. | | | | |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/IUmfu7srlnPHEE8RAlGcAJ9+nOHNJFGCnbEYvLykeHH5VZXIyQCgsIpJ Bsd0uHx8AoH+2VF8A6QUmZk= =16SL -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
2003-07-25 by Robert Morrison
If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. It has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't tried it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. Robert
On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > become familiar with the software. > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > this > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, > would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks > > Steve > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp > http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2003-07-25 by Antonis Ricos
> I'm particularly interested in how dithered the highlights are, and how > bad the metamerism is. I've got some indoor/flash shots shot on 400 > that look more grainy than normal, mostly just in the highlights. Could > be film grain, but it doesn't look like it under the loupe. Justin, the 2200 only has one gray ink. No matter whose driver you use there will be more highlight dots than a full quad machine. For the ideal grayscale print, either you have to load an extra gray (or 2) in the 2200, or go to the other known quad inksets on older printers. Much as the 2200 is very nice, if you need to take a loupe to your prints, you'll see those highlight dots. Antonis
2003-07-25 by Jean-Pierre Verbeke
I'm using IP 5.6. The shaduw adjusting feature only works with RGB files, not with Gray Gamma 2.2 files which in return gives deeper blacks (same gradation as viewed in Photoshop) when used with IP gray profiles. Jean-Pierre Verbeke India jan 01: Maha Kumbh Mela http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=161965 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:29 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print > If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. It > has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't tried > it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed > because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. > > Robert > > > On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: > > > > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print > > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > > become familiar with the software. > > > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > > this > > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~--> > > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com > > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ~-> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > > this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > > keep them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > > header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > > various resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > >
2003-07-25 by Robert Morrison
Thanks for the tip...in my book that make IP useless for BW for anything other than commercial work...there is no detail between 95 and 100% and very little between 90 and 95% in the standard profiles. In a supposedly color managed environment, I'm not willing to edit files for a profile...particularly when the profile is so bad. It just seems incredible to me that they won't do anything about this...and I've told them plenty of times. Regardless it seems that Studioprint is a better option for large format printers and IJC/OPM does a great job on BW for the desktop (and some wideformat) printers. I still use IP...but only for color work...its great for that with the free profiling. Robert
On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Jean-Pierre Verbeke wrote: > I'm using IP 5.6. The shaduw adjusting feature only works with RGB > files, > not with Gray Gamma 2.2 files which in return gives deeper blacks (same > gradation as viewed in Photoshop) when used with IP gray profiles. > > > Jean-Pierre Verbeke > > India jan 01: Maha Kumbh Mela > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=161965 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print > > >> If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. >> It >> has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't tried >> it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed >> because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. >> >> Robert >> >> >> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: >> >>> >>> I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print >>> color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to >>> become familiar with the software. >>> >>> This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with >>> this >>> printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, >>> would be greatly appreciated. >>> >>> Thanks >>> >>> Steve >>> >>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor >>> ---------------------~--> >>> Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com >>> Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. >>> http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp >>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM >>> --------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> ~-> >>> >>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls >>> and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: >>> >>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >>> >>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >>> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting >>> this same page. >>> >>> Please follow these basic guidelines: >>> - Include your full name with your message. >>> - Include the address of your website, if you have one. >>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >>> keep them short. >>> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject >>> header. >>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or >>> flames >>> - Complete your Yahoo profile. >>> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the >>> various resources on the homepage. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >>> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >>> >>> >> >> >> >> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls >> and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: >> >> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint >> >> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish >> to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > same > page. >> >> Please follow these basic guidelines: >> - Include your full name with your message. >> - Include the address of your website, if you have one. >> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to >> keep > them short. >> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject >> header. >> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames >> - Complete your Yahoo profile. >> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the >> various > resources on the homepage. >> >> >> >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to >> http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ >> >> >> >> > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ---------------------~--> > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp > http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > >
2003-07-25 by Steven Schaefer
Metamerism is the real issue. I looked at the prints under daylight, tungsten and florescent lighting, and do not remember a notable color shift. But, I will let you know when I print my own prints. Steve Justin Florentine wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > Hash: SHA1 > > Good to hear about the neutrality. > > I'm particularly interested in how dithered the highlights are, and > how > bad the metamerism is. I've got some indoor/flash shots shot on 400 > that look more grainy than normal, mostly just in the highlights. > Could > be film grain, but it doesn't look like it under the loupe. > > Steven Schaefer wrote: > > |Hey Justin, yes I am using the epson inks. I have seen BW prints > with > |this printer rip combination and there were dead on the money > neutral. > | > |I will let you know how my prints look. > | > |Steve > | > |Justin Florentine wrote: > | > |>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- > |>Hash: SHA1 > |> > |>I'm eagerly awaiting your results, Steve. I have the 2200 and am > not > |>satisfied with the Photorealistic technique outlined on the web for > |>use > |>with Epson inks, so I am thinking about saving up for ImagePrint. > I'm > |> > |>currently trying to print without a RIP, and it's a little > |>frustrating. > |> > |>Are you planning to use Epson inks in the 2200 with ImagePrint for > |>your BW? > |> > |>Steven Schaefer wrote: > |> > |>|I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to > print > |>|color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > |>|become familiar with the software. > |>| > |>|This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > |>this > |>|printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or > guidance, > |>|would be greatly appreciated. > |>| > |>|Thanks > |>| > |>|Steve > |>| > |>| > |>|Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, > Polls > |>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > |>| > |>|http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > |>| > |>|If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish > |>to > |>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this > |>same page. > |>| > |>|Please follow these basic guidelines: > |>|- Include your full name with your message. > |>|- Include the address of your website, if you have one. > |>|- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to > |> > |>keep them short. > |>|- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > |>header. > |>|- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > |>flames > |>|- Complete your Yahoo profile. > |>|- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > |>various resources on the homepage. > |>| > |>| > |>| > |>| > |>|Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > |>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > |>| > |>| > |> > |>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > |>Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > |>Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > |> > |>iD8DBQE/ITRou7srlnPHEE8RAua+AKCQ8NNFTm+N6ZwKDt/ivZ2DzOO2qQCfd4bi > |>vAdg1hFGnwt2fWQUdpS06qQ= > |>=03fW > |>-----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > |> > |> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > |> ADVERTISEMENT > |> [Image] > |> > |> > |> > |>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > |>and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > |> > |>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > |> > |>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > |>to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > |>this same page. > |> > |>Please follow these basic guidelines: > |>- Include your full name with your message. > |>- Include the address of your website, if you have one. > |>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to > |>keep them short. > |>- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > |>header. > |>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames > |>- Complete your Yahoo profile. > |>- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > |>various resources on the homepage. > |> > |>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > | > | > | > |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > | > |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > | > |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > same page. > | > |Please follow these basic guidelines: > |- Include your full name with your message. > |- Include the address of your website, if you have one. > |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > > keep them short. > |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames > |- Complete your Yahoo profile. > |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > | > | > | > | > |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > | > | > > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- > Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) > Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org > > iD8DBQE/IUmfu7srlnPHEE8RAlGcAJ9+nOHNJFGCnbEYvLykeHH5VZXIyQCgsIpJ > Bsd0uHx8AoH+2VF8A6QUmZk= > =16SL > -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [Image] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2003-07-25 by Steven Schaefer
The lack of shadow detail was the only concern I had after looking at the test prints. I am glad to hear the PI 5.6. has address this. The prints I looked at were printed on the original rip. Steve Robert Morrison wrote:
> > If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. > It > has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't > tried > it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed > because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. > > Robert > > On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: > > > > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to > print > > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > > become familiar with the software. > > > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > > > this > > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or > guidance, > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > Thanks > > > > Steve > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ---------------------~--> > > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com > > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ~-> > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, > Polls > > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > > > this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to > > keep them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > > header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > > various resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [Image] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2003-07-25 by Steven Schaefer
Are you saying that an imaged printed as a Gray Gamma 2.2 file will have better blacks then if it were printed in RGB? Jean-Pierre Verbeke wrote:
> > I'm using IP 5.6. The shaduw adjusting feature only works with RGB > files, > not with Gray Gamma 2.2 files which in return gives deeper blacks > (same > gradation as viewed in Photoshop) when used with IP gray profiles. > > Jean-Pierre Verbeke > > India jan 01: Maha Kumbh Mela > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=161965 > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:29 PM > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print > > > If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. > It > > has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't > tried > > it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed > > because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. > > > > Robert > > > > > > On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: > > > > > > > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to > print > > > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting > to > > > become familiar with the software. > > > > > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos > with > > > this > > > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or > guidance, > > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > ---------------------~--> > > > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com > > > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > ~-> > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, > Polls > > > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is > at: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > wish > > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > visiting > > > this same page. > > > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > > - Include your full name with your message. > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to > > > keep them short. > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > > > header. > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > > > various resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > same > page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > to keep > them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > flames > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various > resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > ADVERTISEMENT > [Image] > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > various resources on the homepage. > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
2003-07-25 by Justin Florentine
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Thanks Antonis, and on that note... Has anyone tried using hextone/quadtone inks from MIS (or anyone else) in the 2200? MIS says they're waiting on the empty carts so refils are out, but I'm wondering if anyone homebrewed their own from some Epson empties, or has used hex/quad tones with a CIS in the 2200. If you use quad/hex tones, is there a need for a RIP at that point? I'm still not entirely sure of why it's so advantageous to have a RIP. Is this basically just a raster replacement for lousy Epson drivers? What else does a $500 (ImagePrint) RIP do for you besides add postscript? I'm having sleight buyers remorse regarding the 2200, but the idea was to have a printer for both BW and color. I'm sure I'll feel better once I start printing some slides. Thanks! Antonis Ricos wrote: |>I'm particularly interested in how dithered the highlights are, and how |>bad the metamerism is. I've got some indoor/flash shots shot on 400 |>that look more grainy than normal, mostly just in the highlights. Could |>be film grain, but it doesn't look like it under the loupe. | | |Justin, | |the 2200 only has one gray ink. No matter whose driver you use there will be |more highlight dots than a full quad machine. For the ideal grayscale print, |either you have to load an extra gray (or 2) in the 2200, or go to the other |known quad inksets on older printers. Much as the 2200 is very nice, if you |need to take a loupe to your prints, you'll see those highlight dots. | |Antonis | | | |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: | |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint | |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. | |Please follow these basic guidelines: |- Include your full name with your message. |- Include the address of your website, if you have one. |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames |- Complete your Yahoo profile. |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. | | | | |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/IWEIu7srlnPHEE8RAkoWAKCyPyiDp678Q6JdpXUnBkasyp4VdgCff4Ks ZrOnrSY8EFk8RfraGx+Amec= =At2W -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
2003-07-25 by Roy Harrington
There are now quite a few different solutions to printing B&W with the new 7 ink Ultrachrome printers. Most of the products only run on certain machines (Mac or Windows) with certain operating systems, or only support some of the printers. For Macs running OS X, QuadToneRIP will drive all of the Ultrachrome printers, minimizing metamerism, and giving you a selectable warm to cool tone grayscale. See my website for links to QuadToneRIP information. Roy Harrington www.harrington.com --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Robert Morrison <rmorrison@p...> wrote:
> Thanks for the tip...in my book that make IP useless for BW for > anything other than commercial work...there is no detail between 95 and > 100% and very little between 90 and 95% in the standard profiles. In a > supposedly color managed environment, I'm not willing to edit files for > a profile...particularly when the profile is so bad. It just seems > incredible to me that they won't do anything about this...and I've told > them plenty of times. > > Regardless it seems that Studioprint is a better option for large > format printers and IJC/OPM does a great job on BW for the desktop (and > some wideformat) printers. I still use IP...but only for color > work...its great for that with the free profiling. > > Robert > > > On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 09:10 AM, Jean-Pierre Verbeke wrote: > > > I'm using IP 5.6. The shaduw adjusting feature only works with RGB > > files, > > not with Gray Gamma 2.2 files which in return gives deeper blacks (same > > gradation as viewed in Photoshop) when used with IP gray profiles. > > > > > > Jean-Pierre Verbeke > > > > India jan 01: Maha Kumbh Mela > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=161965 > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@p...> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print > > > > > >> If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. > >> It > >> has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't tried > >> it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed > >> because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. > >> > >> Robert > >> > >> > >> On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: > >> > >>> > >>> I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to print > >>> color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting to > >>> become familiar with the software. > >>> > >>> This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos with > >>> this > >>> printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or guidance, > >>> would be greatly appreciated. > >>> > >>> Thanks > >>> > >>> Steve > >>>
2003-07-25 by Phil Bard
With all this talk of which printing solution provides the most neutral, metamerism free monochrome print using color pigs, perhaps it would be worth mentioning that getting the image neutral out of the printer is only the first part of the task. The other is ensuring that it will maintain its neutrality with age. It would be great to know more about differential fade rates amongst the individual colors. Any significant departure of one vs. the others will likely colorshift the entire image. Anyone have any specific test results on this? With color pigs, that is. I already know about monochrome alternatives... Phil ___________________ Cirrus Digital Imaging phil@... http://cirrus-digital.com
2003-07-25 by Jean-Pierre Verbeke
I'm saying that if you import a file embedded with a Gray Gamma profile (instead of a RGB profile, like Adobe RGB) and print with a gray IP profile blacks are deeper. That is my own experience. Jean-Pierre Verbeke India jan 01: Maha Kumbh Mela http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=161965 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steven Schaefer" <stevenr@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 6:41 PM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print > Are you saying that an imaged printed as a Gray Gamma 2.2 file will > have better blacks then if it were printed in RGB? > > Jean-Pierre Verbeke wrote: > > > > I'm using IP 5.6. The shaduw adjusting feature only works with RGB > > files, > > not with Gray Gamma 2.2 files which in return gives deeper blacks > > (same > > gradation as viewed in Photoshop) when used with IP gray profiles. > > > > Jean-Pierre Verbeke > > > > India jan 01: Maha Kumbh Mela > > http://www.photo.net/photodb/folder?folder_id=161965 > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Robert Morrison" <rmorrison@...> > > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > > Sent: Friday, July 25, 2003 5:29 PM > > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print > > > > > If you didn't get it in your demo...make sure you are using IP 5.6. > > It > > > has the new feature to be able to adjust shadow detail. Haven't > > tried > > > it yet...but this is one thing that IP BW output definitely needed > > > because shadows were compressed in the normal profiles. > > > > > > Robert > > > > > > > > > On Friday, July 25, 2003, at 05:26 AM, Steven Schaefer wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > I've installed Image Print on my Mac, and have been using it to > > print > > > > color with my 2200. The color prints look good and I am starting > > to > > > > become familiar with the software. > > > > > > > > This weekend, I am planning to try to print my first BW photos > > with > > > > this > > > > printer software combination, any suggestions, warnings, or > > guidance, > > > > would be greatly appreciated. > > > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > ---------------------~--> > > > > Buy Ink Cartridges & Refill Kits for Your Epson at Myinks.com > > > > Free shipping on orders $50 or more to the US and Canada. > > > > http://www.c1tracking.com/l.asp?cid=5705&lp=home/epson.asp > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/brYXfA/_xWGAA/ySSFAA/ucIolB/TM > > > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > ~-> > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, > > Polls > > > > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is > > at: > > > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you > > wish > > > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by > > visiting > > > > this same page. > > > > > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > > > - Include your full name with your message. > > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > > to > > > > keep them short. > > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > > > > header. > > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > > flames > > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > > > > various resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > > and > > other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > > to > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this > > same > > page. > > > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > > - Include your full name with your message. > > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages > > to keep > > them short. > > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > > header. > > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or > > flames > > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > > various > > resources on the homepage. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > ADVERTISEMENT > > [Image] > > > > > > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls > > and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish > > to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting > > this same page. > > > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > > - Include your full name with your message. > > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to > > keep them short. > > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject > > header. > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the > > various resources on the homepage. > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. > > Please follow these basic guidelines: > - Include your full name with your message. > - Include the address of your website, if you have one. > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames > - Complete your Yahoo profile. > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage.
> > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > >
2003-07-25 by harrisimages
Antonis, What you say is true....you will see a lot more highlight dots using ImagePrint on a 2200 than when using a 1280 with PiezoTone inks. But, there is a definite upside. Prints with silvery tones will jump off the page when hanging on a wall in ambient window light, whereas the PiezoTone prints will look dull. Also, using the PiezographyBW driver with PiezoTone inks on my 1280 shows microbanding when viewed with a loupe. Even the print samples that inkjetmall sent me showed this banding. Art lovers rarely look at art with a loupe! They rarely see dots in the highlights or microbanding in a print. Ron www.harrisimages.com > the 2200 only has one gray ink. No matter whose driver you use there will be > more highlight dots than a full quad machine. For the ideal grayscale print, > either you have to load an extra gray (or 2) in the 2200, or go to the other > known quad inksets on older printers. Much as the 2200 is very nice, if you > need to take a loupe to your prints, you'll see those highlight dots. > > Antonis
2003-07-25 by Daniel Staver
> Has anyone tried using hextone/quadtone inks from MIS (or > anyone else) in the 2200? MIS says they're waiting on the empty carts so > refils are out, but I'm wondering if anyone homebrewed their own from some Epson > empties, or has used hex/quad tones with a CIS in the 2200. Yes, I've cleaned and refilled empty Epson cartridges with the MIS UltraTones. I've used them for months now. You can search my older posts for details, but basically it works very well. I've had the best results on matte papers, while glossy papers are harder to work with. You can easily switch between a full color inkset and a septone inkset in a matter of seconds. You simply take out the color cartridges and put in the BW cartridges. 2100 cartridges can easily be left unused on a desk or in a drawer for months without any problems, so having several sets of cartridges available is not a problem. Paul's curves can be modified to work with the 2100 and will give just as good results as with other printers. I've modified the warm and neutral warm 1290 curves to work fairly well with the 2100. I've tried to modify the neutral cool curve as well, but haven't had much success so far. Clayton has a couple of test prints I made with the first two curves, and I think he's planning to make a comment on the quality in comparison to other workflows and inksets at some point... > If you use quad/hex tones, is there a need for a RIP at that point? > I'm still not entirely sure of why it's so advantageous to have a RIP. > Is this basically just a raster replacement for lousy Epson drivers? > What else > does a $500 (ImagePrint) RIP do for you besides add postscript? With a RIP you would be able to separate the hextone inks properly, and it would be much easier to get the tone you want than with RGB separation curves using the Epson driver, since you could work with the ink channels directly instead. QuadToneRIP 2.0 can do this, and I do in fact have a working installation of that on my Linux machine. Unfortunately I haven't had enough time to experiment with it yet, although it looks very promising. Just printing with the Ultratones in the 2100 without any correction curves whatsoever will give you results that equal Imageprint. With the proper curves it will exceed Imageprint and give you dotless highlights and much better shadow detail. > I'm having sleight buyers remorse regarding the 2200, but the > idea was to have a printer for both BW and color. I'm sure I'll feel > better once I start printing some slides. I felt buyers remorse too when I first realized how poorly it handled BW, but after experimenting with a few RIP's and then taking the plunge and doing the refills myself I've been very happy with the output I'm getting. You can stay assured that your printer is fully capable of great BW output once loaded with the correct inks using the right workflow. And you won't have to keep a separate printer for color around... -- Daniel Staver http://daniel.staver.no
2003-07-26 by Antonis Ricos
Ron, I agree with you too... Just want to add a note on an unfair comparison: You are comparing, ImagePrint, an up-to-date software with the original piezo plug-in whose days of glory have long faded (along with those inks). In my experience the plug in with the original profiles is something to be thrown out the window, not used with the Piezotones. Not everybody has the same experience as you and I and many people either don't get banding or don't care. But if you see what you say is micorbanding, it is most likely the result of using ancient profiles made on systems running the original piezo inks under who knows what condition. If that's the source of your problem (and not head clogs), blame the profiles, not the 1280 or the Piezotones. When I sent inkjetmall my sample grayscale from my 1280/Selenium PT/PhotoRag complaining about the banding, I was told to try all their profiles until one worked. In other words, that system has become a joke - certainly by the standards we discuss printing here. You also make a point about PT prints looking "dull". All else being equal (i.e. perfect profiles between the 2 systems and same paper) that should only mean a difference between dmax values. The two inksets you are comparing (UC vs PT) are capable of excellent prints, but each may not achieve its maximum black on the same papers. UC may favor EAM and PTs may favor PhotoRag for example. Still, I wouldn't call the difference night and day (unless you put glosy next to matte, which is a whole other issue). In any case, other than being slow, the 1280/PT is capable of very fine bw prints that will look smoother than the 2200 with its OEM configuration. The trick is to use the correct profile. I make cutom profiles for all my printers using IJC, so in that respect, my comparisons are not dependent on differences between profiles. Antonis --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "harrisimages" <harris@s...> wrote:
> Antonis, > > What you say is true....you will see a lot more highlight dots using > ImagePrint on a 2200 than when using a 1280 with PiezoTone inks. > But, there is a definite upside. Prints with silvery tones will > jump off the page when hanging on a wall in ambient window light, > whereas the PiezoTone prints will look dull. > > Also, using the PiezographyBW driver with PiezoTone inks on my 1280 > shows microbanding when viewed with a loupe. Even the print samples > that inkjetmall sent me showed this banding.
2003-07-26 by harrisimages
Antonis, I saw the same microbanding on all twelve of the PiezoTone samples that InkjetMall sent me. I don't know what profiles they used, but they were certainly trying to show off their products. They told me they used an Epson 7000 (do they mean 7600?) on PhotoRag. I would imagine that there new ICC profile approach or your custom approach doesn't exhibit this banding. Anyway, this doesn't bother me because I am interested in how the prints look with the unaided eye. Just like the highlight dots with ImagePrint don't bother me. I certainly agree that you can make beautiful prints using the 2200 and Ultrachrome inks with ImagePrint and equally beautiful prints using the PiezoTone inks on the 1280, even using the old driver with the wrong profiles. I have made many of them. I use both systems, primarily because of a larger selection of image tone. But, I don't think I made myself clear. I have some prints, maybe 10% of my prints, that have areas of light silvery tones. This is the region where ImagePrint puts down dots with blank paper in between, whereas the PiezographyBW driver I'm using more or less fills this space with light gray ink, obscuring the paper base. The reflection off the paper base is whiter than off the light gray ink. When placed across the room on a wall, these highlight areas on the ImagePrint prints have more luminosity. And there is no question about it...it's very easy to see. Now maybe this is not the case with your custom PiezoTone printing approach...I can accept this if you say so. And maybe it won't be the case with the new ICC profiles. As far as my own, present, printing methods I see it as a trade off between dots in the highlights and luminosity in the highlights. I should add that this luminosity is best observed when the prints are illuminated indirectly. I don't see this advantage when illuminated by strong direct lighting. You mentioned Dmax values. On PhotoRag with PiezoTone BlackBlack using the 1280 with the old driver, I get a Dmax of about 1.80 after a few days of aging (it's about 1.70 initially). On Epson Velvet Fine Art using Ultrachrome inks on the 2200 with ImagePrint 5.5, I get a density of about 1.79 after a few days of aging (it's about 1.75 initially). So the two are pretty close in this case. Anyway, this is what I am observing on this end, and I'm more than willing to admit that there may be other explanations than my own. Ron www.harrisimages.com --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Antonis Ricos" <antonisphoto@y...> wrote: > Ron, > > I agree with you too... Just want to add a note on an unfair comparison: You > are comparing, ImagePrint, an up-to-date software with the original piezo > plug-in whose days of glory have long faded (along with those inks). > > In my experience the plug in with the original profiles is something to be > thrown out the window, not used with the Piezotones. Not everybody has the > same experience as you and I and many people either don't get banding or > don't care. But if you see what you say is micorbanding, it is most likely the > result of using ancient profiles made on systems running the original piezo > inks under who knows what condition. If that's the source of your problem > (and not head clogs), blame the profiles, not the 1280 or the Piezotones. > When I sent inkjetmall my sample grayscale from my 1280/Selenium > PT/PhotoRag complaining about the banding, I was told to try all their profiles > until one worked. In other words, that system has become a joke - certainly by > the standards we discuss printing here. > > You also make a point about PT prints looking "dull". All else being equal (i.e. > perfect profiles between the 2 systems and same paper) that should only > mean a difference between dmax values. The two inksets you are comparing > (UC vs PT) are capable of excellent prints, but each may not achieve its > maximum black on the same papers. UC may favor EAM and PTs may favor > PhotoRag for example. Still, I wouldn't call the difference night and day > (unless you put glosy next to matte, which is a whole other issue). > > In any case, other than being slow, the 1280/PT is capable of very fine bw > prints that will look smoother than the 2200 with its OEM configuration. The > trick is to use the correct profile. I make cutom profiles for all my printers using > IJC, so in that respect, my comparisons are not dependent on differences > between profiles. > > Antonis > > > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "harrisimages" > <harris@s...> wrote: > > Antonis, > > > > What you say is true....you will see a lot more highlight dots using > > ImagePrint on a 2200 than when using a 1280 with PiezoTone inks. > > But, there is a definite upside. Prints with silvery tones will > > jump off the page when hanging on a wall in ambient window light, > > whereas the PiezoTone prints will look dull. > > > > Also, using the PiezographyBW driver with PiezoTone inks on my 1280 > > shows microbanding when viewed with a loupe. Even the print samples > > that inkjetmall sent me showed this banding.
2003-07-26 by Shilesh Jani
..Snip... > > But, I don't think I made myself clear. I have some prints, maybe > 10% of my prints, that have areas of light silvery tones. This is > the region where ImagePrint puts down dots with blank paper in > between, whereas the PiezographyBW driver I'm using more or less > fills this space with light gray ink, obscuring the paper base. The > reflection off the paper base is whiter than off the light gray > ink. When placed across the room on a wall, these highlight areas > on the ImagePrint prints have more luminosity. And there is no > question about it...it's very easy to see. Now maybe this is not > the case with your custom PiezoTone printing approach...I can accept > this if you say so. And maybe it won't be the case with the new ICC > profiles. Ron, I agree with you! This special luminous quality is restricted to some images and under specific light condition. I see this also in BO printing. Use of pigmented grays in highlight areas impose the quality of inks, rather than allowing the paper to assert itself. A long time ago - 1.5 years;-) I was using dye based inks for b/w printing. And sure enough, the paper character was more readily apparent in the highlights. Too bad about color crossover and fade of color dyes. I am looking forward to the day when we get a dye based grayscale inkset, even one which has a limited lightfastness of 20 years. But that is just me. On the microbanding front: It should be noted that the Piezography plug-in is not the only way to go with the 1280. One can use the Epson driver along with the MIS FS (and FS-N) inks designated "E". Alternatively, you can use the regular FS (and FS-N) inks provided you switch the inks around as follows: cyan=magenta=dark, lightcyan=lightmagenta=middle, yellow=light. A moderate curves adjustment layer (call it profile) linearizes the response nicely. No plug-in, no banding. Also in fairness, I have seen a lot of prints made with the Piezo plug-in and PT inks with no evidence of banding. I personally don't use the plug-in because I like the ability to custom mix my own inks, and the plug-in (mis)uses too much ink, and it is slooooooooooooow! Regards. Shilesh
2003-07-26 by harrisimages
Hi Shilesh, Thanks for your observations and for suggesting alternative methods of printing PiezoTones on the 1280. The old driver is very slow, as you say, 16 minutes for a small print as compared to 6 minutes on the 2200 with ImagePrint. I am very happy with B&W prints made using ImagePrint on the 2200. Fast and easy to use. Many say the prints are neutral. However, at 50,50 tinting they seem slightly warm to me, but not as warm as PiezoTone Selinium Tone. I like both renditions. However, for more tonal variation I look to PiezoTones. I would imagine that the new PiezoTone system will make them easier to use and give better results, except, perhaps for customized approaches like yours. Ron --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote: > Ron, > > I agree with you! This special luminous quality is restricted to > some images and under specific light condition. I see this also in > BO printing. Use of pigmented grays in highlight areas impose the > quality of inks, rather than allowing the paper to assert itself. A > long time ago - 1.5 years;-) I was using dye based inks for b/w > printing. And sure enough, the paper character was more readily > apparent in the highlights. Too bad about color crossover and fade > of color dyes. I am looking forward to the day when we get a dye > based grayscale inkset, even one which has a limited lightfastness of > 20 years. But that is just me. > > On the microbanding front: It should be noted that the Piezography > plug-in is not the only way to go with the 1280. One can use the > Epson driver along with the MIS FS (and FS-N) inks designated "E". > Alternatively, you can use the regular FS (and FS-N) inks provided > you switch the inks around as follows: cyan=magenta=dark, > lightcyan=lightmagenta=middle, yellow=light. A moderate curves > adjustment layer (call it profile) linearizes the response nicely. > No plug-in, no banding. Also in fairness, I have seen a lot of > prints made with the Piezo plug-in and PT inks with no evidence of > banding. I personally don't use the plug-in because I like the > ability to custom mix my own inks, and the plug-in (mis)uses too much
> ink, and it is slooooooooooooow! > > Regards. > > Shilesh
2003-07-26 by Shilesh Jani
Ron, Another thought: Apparently the Piezo plug-in dumps a lot of ink on the paper across the entire grayscale spectrum. Perhaps it might be better if highlights are printed with less ink. Regards. Shilesh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "harrisimages" <harris@s...> wrote:
> Hi Shilesh, > > Thanks for your observations and for suggesting alternative methods > of printing PiezoTones on the 1280. The old driver is very slow, as > you say, 16 minutes for a small print as compared to 6 minutes on > the 2200 with ImagePrint. > > I am very happy with B&W prints made using ImagePrint on the 2200. > Fast and easy to use. Many say the prints are neutral. However, at > 50,50 tinting they seem slightly warm to me, but not as warm as > PiezoTone Selinium Tone. I like both renditions. However, for more > tonal variation I look to PiezoTones. I would imagine that the new > PiezoTone system will make them easier to use and give better > results, except, perhaps for customized approaches like yours. > > Ron > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" > <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote: > > Ron, > > > > I agree with you! This special luminous quality is restricted to > > some images and under specific light condition. I see this also > in > > BO printing. Use of pigmented grays in highlight areas impose the > > quality of inks, rather than allowing the paper to assert itself. > A > > long time ago - 1.5 years;-) I was using dye based inks for b/w > > printing. And sure enough, the paper character was more readily > > apparent in the highlights. Too bad about color crossover and > fade > > of color dyes. I am looking forward to the day when we get a dye > > based grayscale inkset, even one which has a limited lightfastness > of > > 20 years. But that is just me. > > > > On the microbanding front: It should be noted that the > Piezography > > plug-in is not the only way to go with the 1280. One can use the > > Epson driver along with the MIS FS (and FS-N) inks > designated "E". > > Alternatively, you can use the regular FS (and FS-N) inks provided > > you switch the inks around as follows: cyan=magenta=dark, > > lightcyan=lightmagenta=middle, yellow=light. A moderate curves > > adjustment layer (call it profile) linearizes the response > nicely. > > No plug-in, no banding. Also in fairness, I have seen a lot of > > prints made with the Piezo plug-in and PT inks with no evidence of > > banding. I personally don't use the plug-in because I like the > > ability to custom mix my own inks, and the plug-in (mis)uses too > much > > ink, and it is slooooooooooooow! > > > > Regards. > > > > Shilesh
2003-07-27 by Tyler Boley
Well, less ink would mean lighter, which would mean no-longer-accurate. I think the effect the poster meant was the impression that more widely spaced darker ink (resulting in the same density compared to piezo with more dots of lighter ink) somehow was more luminous because more paper white was visible. Tyler --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote:
> Ron, > > Another thought: Apparently the Piezo plug-in dumps a lot of ink on > the paper across the entire grayscale spectrum. Perhaps it might be > better if highlights are printed with less ink. > > Regards. > > Shilesh > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "harrisimages" > <harris@s...> wrote: > > Hi Shilesh, > > > > Thanks for your observations and for suggesting alternative methods > > of printing PiezoTones on the 1280. The old driver is very slow, as > > you say, 16 minutes for a small print as compared to 6 minutes on > > the 2200 with ImagePrint. > > > > I am very happy with B&W prints made using ImagePrint on the 2200. > > Fast and easy to use. Many say the prints are neutral. However, at > > 50,50 tinting they seem slightly warm to me, but not as warm as > > PiezoTone Selinium Tone. I like both renditions. However, for more > > tonal variation I look to PiezoTones. I would imagine that the new > > PiezoTone system will make them easier to use and give better > > results, except, perhaps for customized approaches like yours. > > > > Ron > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" > > <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote: > > > Ron, > > > > > > I agree with you! This special luminous quality is restricted to > > > some images and under specific light condition. I see this also > > in > > > BO printing. Use of pigmented grays in highlight areas impose the > > > quality of inks, rather than allowing the paper to assert itself. > > A > > > long time ago - 1.5 years;-) I was using dye based inks for b/w > > > printing. And sure enough, the paper character was more readily > > > apparent in the highlights. Too bad about color crossover and > > fade > > > of color dyes. I am looking forward to the day when we get a dye > > > based grayscale inkset, even one which has a limited lightfastness > > of > > > 20 years. But that is just me. > > > > > > On the microbanding front: It should be noted that the > > Piezography > > > plug-in is not the only way to go with the 1280. One can use the > > > Epson driver along with the MIS FS (and FS-N) inks > > designated "E". > > > Alternatively, you can use the regular FS (and FS-N) inks provided > > > you switch the inks around as follows: cyan=magenta=dark, > > > lightcyan=lightmagenta=middle, yellow=light. A moderate curves > > > adjustment layer (call it profile) linearizes the response > > nicely. > > > No plug-in, no banding. Also in fairness, I have seen a lot of > > > prints made with the Piezo plug-in and PT inks with no evidence of > > > banding. I personally don't use the plug-in because I like the > > > ability to custom mix my own inks, and the plug-in (mis)uses too > > much > > > ink, and it is slooooooooooooow! > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > Shilesh
2003-07-27 by Antonis Ricos
I have some prints, maybe > 10% of my prints, that have areas of light silvery tones. This is > the region where ImagePrint puts down dots with blank paper in > between, whereas the PiezographyBW driver I'm using more or less > fills this space with light gray ink, obscuring the paper base. Ron, I understand what you say and certainly can't dispute what you observe. All I am adding to the discussion is that "in theory", which means under ideal profiling conditions, the "loose dots" and the "filled gray" should result in the same density. IOW, let's say we take a 10% gray. Whether we make it up of darker dots spread apart or lighter dots packed tighter together, the result should read the same on a densitometer (with appropriate aperture) and seem the same to our eyes. I should add that this luminosity is best observed when > the prints are illuminated indirectly. I don't see this advantage > when illuminated by strong direct lighting. Well,... here is another rather big factor all these theoretical discussions leave out: the conditions under which we view these prints. I recently made a test of an "ordinary" print on EAM with PTs and an ultra-dmax print using the Ultrachromes (2200) on Ilford Smooth Pearl. Of course the difference is staggering if you put them on a wall with a spotlight on them, framed without glass. But leave them on a table in the middle of a living room lit by diffuse daylight, and the EAM print is starting to look pretty good! It's no magic. The diffuse reflections in the room lower the perceived black in the semiglossy surface. A whole huge dmax difference between 1.60 and 2.40-something is leveled by lighting conditons. Your experiences seem to fall in this category where theory meets perception. And, speaking of perception... the same crappy EAM paper (in the tests above) looked terrific when used with my Sepia profiles on the 2200 and dead flat out of the 7000/PTs. The dmax difference was minimal (like 0.05). It was the coloration that gave richness to anotherwise mundane paper. Go figure... Antonis
2003-07-27 by harrisimages
Antonis, I certainly agree with your comments. You clearly illustrate the need for both theory and experiment, as Galileo taught us long ago <g>! And you show that we have an advantage if we know in advance under what conditions our prints will be displayed. Ron > I understand what you say and certainly can't dispute what you observe. All I > am adding to the discussion is that "in theory", which means under ideal > profiling conditions, the "loose dots" and the "filled gray" should result in the > same density. IOW, let's say we take a 10% gray. Whether we make it up of > darker dots spread apart or lighter dots packed tighter together, the result > should read the same on a densitometer (with appropriate aperture) and > seem the same to our eyes. > > > > I should add that this luminosity is best observed when > > the prints are illuminated indirectly. I don't see this advantage > > when illuminated by strong direct lighting. > > > > Well,... here is another rather big factor all these theoretical discussions leave > out: the conditions under which we view these prints. I recently made a test of > an "ordinary" print on EAM with PTs and an ultra-dmax print using the > Ultrachromes (2200) on Ilford Smooth Pearl. Of course the difference is > staggering if you put them on a wall with a spotlight on them, framed without > glass. But leave them on a table in the middle of a living room lit by diffuse > daylight, and the EAM print is starting to look pretty good! It's no magic. The > diffuse reflections in the room lower the perceived black in the semiglossy > surface. A whole huge dmax difference between 1.60 and 2.40- something is > leveled by lighting conditons. > > Your experiences seem to fall in this category where theory meets perception. > And, speaking of perception... the same crappy EAM paper (in the tests > above) looked terrific when used with my Sepia profiles on the 2200 and > dead flat out of the 7000/PTs. The dmax difference was minimal (like 0.05). It > was the coloration that gave richness to anotherwise mundane paper. Go
> figure... > > Antonis
2003-07-27 by Shilesh Jani
Hmm, Tyler, I see your point. Reflectance depends only on the the concentration of the pigment per unit area of paper. So, the finer the dither, the less the local concentration of pigment at each droplet. If the dither is coarse that particular droplet will be more concentrated. Regards. Shilesh --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@t...> wrote: > Well, less ink would mean lighter, which would mean > no-longer-accurate. I think the effect the poster meant was the > impression that more widely spaced darker ink (resulting in the same > density compared to piezo with more dots of lighter ink) somehow was > more luminous because more paper white was visible. > Tyler > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" > <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote: > > Ron, > > > > Another thought: Apparently the Piezo plug-in dumps a lot of ink on > > the paper across the entire grayscale spectrum. Perhaps it might be > > better if highlights are printed with less ink. > > > > Regards. > > > > Shilesh > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "harrisimages" > > <harris@s...> wrote: > > > Hi Shilesh, > > > > > > Thanks for your observations and for suggesting alternative methods > > > of printing PiezoTones on the 1280. The old driver is very slow, as > > > you say, 16 minutes for a small print as compared to 6 minutes on > > > the 2200 with ImagePrint. > > > > > > I am very happy with B&W prints made using ImagePrint on the 2200. > > > Fast and easy to use. Many say the prints are neutral. However, at > > > 50,50 tinting they seem slightly warm to me, but not as warm as > > > PiezoTone Selinium Tone. I like both renditions. However, for more > > > tonal variation I look to PiezoTones. I would imagine that the new > > > PiezoTone system will make them easier to use and give better > > > results, except, perhaps for customized approaches like yours. > > > > > > Ron > > > > > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Shilesh Jani" > > > <shilesh.jani@s...> wrote: > > > > Ron, > > > > > > > > I agree with you! This special luminous quality is restricted to > > > > some images and under specific light condition. I see this also > > > in > > > > BO printing. Use of pigmented grays in highlight areas impose the > > > > quality of inks, rather than allowing the paper to assert itself. > > > A > > > > long time ago - 1.5 years;-) I was using dye based inks for b/w > > > > printing. And sure enough, the paper character was more readily > > > > apparent in the highlights. Too bad about color crossover and > > > fade > > > > of color dyes. I am looking forward to the day when we get a dye > > > > based grayscale inkset, even one which has a limited lightfastness > > > of > > > > 20 years. But that is just me. > > > > > > > > On the microbanding front: It should be noted that the > > > Piezography > > > > plug-in is not the only way to go with the 1280. One can use the > > > > Epson driver along with the MIS FS (and FS-N) inks > > > designated "E". > > > > Alternatively, you can use the regular FS (and FS-N) inks provided > > > > you switch the inks around as follows: cyan=magenta=dark, > > > > lightcyan=lightmagenta=middle, yellow=light. A moderate curves > > > > adjustment layer (call it profile) linearizes the response > > > nicely. > > > > No plug-in, no banding. Also in fairness, I have seen a lot of > > > > prints made with the Piezo plug-in and PT inks with no evidence of > > > > banding. I personally don't use the plug-in because I like the > > > > ability to custom mix my own inks, and the plug-in (mis)uses too
> > > much > > > > ink, and it is slooooooooooooow! > > > > > > > > Regards. > > > > > > > > Shilesh
2003-07-28 by Justin Florentine
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 Fantastic Daniel! It looks like my workflow is starting to converge with yours. I'll be going the dedicated print-server/RIP machine route, although I'll be using a Linux machine since I already have one. I'm a software engineer by trade, and folks like us tend to have a couple of linux boxen lying around collecting dust at any given point :). It's a natural (neutral?) candidate. I'll scour for you posts regarding the UT inks and the cartridge refill procedure this evening. Thanks again for all the help! Daniel Staver wrote: |>Has anyone tried using hextone/quadtone inks from MIS (or |>anyone else) in the 2200? MIS says they're waiting on the empty carts | |so | |>refils are out, but I'm wondering if anyone homebrewed their own from | |some Epson | |>empties, or has used hex/quad tones with a CIS in the 2200. | | |Yes, I've cleaned and refilled empty Epson cartridges with the MIS |UltraTones. I've used them for months now. You can search my older posts |for details, but basically it works very well. I've had the best results |on matte papers, while glossy papers are harder to work with. | |You can easily switch between a full color inkset and a septone inkset |in a matter of seconds. You simply take out the color cartridges and put |in the BW cartridges. 2100 cartridges can easily be left unused on a |desk or in a drawer for months without any problems, so having several |sets of cartridges available is not a problem. | |Paul's curves can be modified to work with the 2100 and will give just |as good results as with other printers. I've modified the warm and |neutral warm 1290 curves to work fairly well with the 2100. I've tried |to modify the neutral cool curve as well, but haven't had much success |so far. Clayton has a couple of test prints I made with the first two |curves, and I think he's planning to make a comment on the quality in |comparison to other workflows and inksets at some point... | |>If you use quad/hex tones, is there a need for a RIP at that point? |>I'm still not entirely sure of why it's so advantageous to have a RIP. |>Is this basically just a raster replacement for lousy Epson drivers? |>What else |>does a $500 (ImagePrint) RIP do for you besides add postscript? | | |With a RIP you would be able to separate the hextone inks properly, and |it would be much easier to get the tone you want than with RGB |separation curves using the Epson driver, since you could work with the |ink channels directly instead. QuadToneRIP 2.0 can do this, and I do in |fact have a working installation of that on my Linux machine. |Unfortunately I haven't had enough time to experiment with it yet, |although it looks very promising. | |Just printing with the Ultratones in the 2100 without any correction |curves whatsoever will give you results that equal Imageprint. With the |proper curves it will exceed Imageprint and give you dotless highlights |and much better shadow detail. | |>I'm having sleight buyers remorse regarding the 2200, but the |>idea was to have a printer for both BW and color. I'm sure I'll feel |>better once I start printing some slides. | | |I felt buyers remorse too when I first realized how poorly it handled |BW, but after experimenting with a few RIP's and then taking the plunge |and doing the refills myself I've been very happy with the output I'm |getting. You can stay assured that your printer is fully capable of |great BW output once loaded with the correct inks using the right |workflow. And you won't have to keep a separate printer for color |around... | |-- |Daniel Staver |http://daniel.staver.no | | | | |Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at: | |http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint | |If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page. | |Please follow these basic guidelines: |- Include your full name with your message. |- Include the address of your website, if you have one. |- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short. |- As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header. |- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames |- Complete your Yahoo profile. |- Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. | | | | |Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ | | -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.2.1 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQE/JXGKu7srlnPHEE8RAgqDAJwNz/vVbUzeJsq7qokhpMVKk1YYBQCgrkOY HXq1zo422CKDA8F4f4YD+Kc= =uESO -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
2004-01-11 by ohogdahl
Does anyone know if the "lite version" of Image Print is enough for BW printning? I´m using Epson 2200 and Win XP. Do I have to install an different ink set to get a 100% result in tone or is it OK to use standard Epson ink set with Mate Black? Does Image Print support the use of Quad Tone ink? ohogdahl
2004-01-11 by A. Huntley
Yes. Just make sure to use the paper profiles with the word "gray" in the name. The standard UC inkset is used with Matte Black for matte type of papers or Photo Black for semigloss types. Alan Huntley
----- Original Message ----- From: "ohogdahl" <olle.hogdahl@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:46 AM Subject: [Digital BW] Image Print Does anyone know if the "lite version" of Image Print is enough for BW printning? I\ufffdm using Epson 2200 and Win XP. Do I have to install an different ink set to get a 100% result in tone or is it OK to use standard Epson ink set with Mate Black? Does Image Print support the use of Quad Tone ink?
2004-01-11 by ohogdahl
Do you use the "stuff" yourself? If that´s the case how is it working? ohogdahl --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "A. Huntley" <Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote: > Yes. Just make sure to use the paper profiles with the word "gray" in the > name. The standard UC inkset is used with Matte Black for matte type of > papers or Photo Black for semigloss types. > > Alan Huntley > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "ohogdahl" <olle.hogdahl@s...> > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 9:46 AM > Subject: [Digital BW] Image Print > > > Does anyone know if the "lite version" of Image Print is enough for > BW printning? I´m using Epson 2200 and Win XP. Do I have to install > an different ink set to get a 100% result in tone or is it OK to use > standard Epson ink set with Mate Black? Does Image Print support the > use of Quad Tone ink?
2004-01-11 by Glenn Mitchell
IP Lite is all you need to print exquisite B&W prints on the Epson 2200. You can use quad tone inks, but the folks at ColorByte Software will tell you it's unnecessary. IP Lite provides absolutley neutral B&W images with the Epson Ultrachrome inks. You get less bronzing on semigloss/luster/glossy papers, too. IP Lite is also great for color images. They have profiles for daylight, tungsten, and two types of fluorescent so you get less metamerism. I'm excited about the support for colorized B&W images in the new release this month. Right now, if you convert to B&W and allow color back in a portion of the image, you can get some metamerism in the B&W (because any color at all means IP uses color profiles instead of their grayscale profiles). The new version uses grayscale profiles for B&W and color profiles for colored portions of the image -- all in a single pass! I was hesitant. You're talking almost as much money as the printer. I drove to their office in Tampa and had them show me some demo prints. I've been using IP Lite for a little over a month now. I find it works exactly as advertised. By default, you get absolutely neutral B&W. Any tint is by your choice with the tint picker. The tint picker makes it easy to warm/cool or add a mauve/mossy cast. Cheers, Mitch --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "ohogdahl" <olle.hogdahl@s...> wrote: > Does anyone know if the "lite version" of Image Print is enough for > BW printning? I´m using Epson 2200 and Win XP. Do I have to install > an different ink set to get a 100% result in tone or is it OK to use > standard Epson ink set with Mate Black? Does Image Print support the
> use of Quad Tone ink? > > ohogdahl
2004-01-11 by A. Huntley
Yes. I have IP Lite 5.6 for the Epson 2200 using the standard UC inks. Using the "gray" profiles, IP will print absolutely dead neutral (to my eyes) on the papers I use; mostly EEM and PhotoRag. With the Tint Picker you can subtlety vary the "color" from slightly cool to slightly warm. I've been very pleased with both B&W and color capability of IP. Additionally, I no longer have to deal with clogs and other issues related to running a dedicated quadtone printer. On my wish list, however, is the ability to vary tonality more toward Sepia. From what I've read, recently, it sounds like IP 6.0 is going to allow us to "colorize" our images. Alan Huntley
----- Original Message ----- From: "ohogdahl" <olle.hogdahl@...> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, January 11, 2004 10:51 AM Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Image Print Do you use the "stuff" yourself? If that\ufffds the case how is it working?
2004-01-12 by Tom Baker
Last communication I had from Colorbyte (a few days ago) IP6 is supposed to be out sometime in Feb instead of what most of us thought (Jan). Tom Baker Glenn Mitchell <gmitchel850@...> wrote: [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]