Yahoo Groups archive

Digital BW, The Print

Index last updated: 2026-04-28 22:56 UTC

Thread

1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by claudej1@aol.com

In a message dated 8/23/2005 8:51:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:

Please  explain further the last paragraph of your message. I don't 
understand  what you are saying there. A 1Ds full frame 24 megapixel 
equal to the  20D?

Thanks

PV



I'm just saying that if Canon were to take the amazing performance of the  
20d's electronics, maintain the same well site pitch, and make a full frame chip 
 with it, they would have a 24 Megapixel Super-Baaaaad Big Dog SLR that they  
could advertise as having more pixels than the more expensive Medium Format  
backs.
 
Since the average resolution of premium Canon glass is 20-100% higher than  
medium format glass, they would compare favorably with the MF backs/MF cameras  
costing much more so a jump from 16 Megapixels to 24 is entirely feasible  
RIGHT NOW if they want to do it.
 
But it's all words on my part not theirs.
 
Claude


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Steve Kale

I suspect that noise will still be a big issue.  The medium format backs
will beat the Canon "Big Dog" if only because an SLR shooter requires a
level of speed that the typical medium format digi-back shooter doesn't.  At
some point I am sure speed implies greater noise (I am not talking about ISO
speed).

I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes close to
my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.

I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, with
the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
day.  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: <claudej1@...>

> 
> I'm just saying that if Canon were to take the amazing performance of the
> 20d's electronics, maintain the same well site pitch, and make a full frame
> chip 
>  with it, they would have a 24 Megapixel Super-Baaaaad Big Dog SLR that they
> could advertise as having more pixels than the more expensive Medium Format
> backs.
>  
> Since the average resolution of premium Canon glass is 20-100% higher than
> medium format glass, they would compare favorably with the MF backs/MF cameras
> costing much more so a jump from 16 Megapixels to 24 is entirely feasible
> RIGHT NOW if they want to do it.
>  
> But it's all words on my part not theirs.
>  
> Claude

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Scott McLoughlin

It seems the MF folks (Mamiya, etc.) are still commited to new
R&D and delivering ever more fantastic primes, like Leica and
Zeiss in the 135 format.  Canon and Nikon seem to spend the vast
majority of their attention on producing new zoom lenses.

I'm not a Canon shooter, but I've read that Contax and Leica
primes were gaining new popularity on the Canon digital bodies.

Scott


Steve Kale wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
> two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
> Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
> f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes 
> close to
> my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.
>
> I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, 
> with
> the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
> day. 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Steve Kale

I should add though that one of the bigger issues facing digital cameras is
their exposure/metering systems.  Designed for film these systems have not
made the transition to exposing for the linear nature of a chip.  They still
meter for a "middle grey" - not necessarily 18% but still a middle grey of
some sort.  The manufacturers still have a leg in either camp.  Their
metering is film centric while the capture plane is digital.  The sooner the
two are properly aligned the better.  In my humble opinion, a change here
will do more for 35mm digital quality than a few more pixels.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>

> 
> I suspect that noise will still be a big issue.  The medium format backs
> will beat the Canon "Big Dog" if only because an SLR shooter requires a
> level of speed that the typical medium format digi-back shooter doesn't.  At
> some point I am sure speed implies greater noise (I am not talking about ISO
> speed).
> 
> I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
> two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
> Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
> f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes close to
> my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.
> 
> I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, with
> the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
> day.  
> 
> 
>> From: <claudej1@...>
> 
>> 
>> I'm just saying that if Canon were to take the amazing performance of the
>> 20d's electronics, maintain the same well site pitch, and make a full frame
>> chip 
>>  with it, they would have a 24 Megapixel Super-Baaaaad Big Dog SLR that they
>> could advertise as having more pixels than the more expensive Medium Format
>> backs.
>>  
>> Since the average resolution of premium Canon glass is 20-100% higher than
>> medium format glass, they would compare favorably with the MF backs/MF
>> cameras
>> costing much more so a jump from 16 Megapixels to 24 is entirely feasible
>> RIGHT NOW if they want to do it.
>>  
>> But it's all words on my part not theirs.
>>  
>> Claude
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
> Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰ in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE „OWNER‰ AND
> „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>  
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Steve Kale

Yes - unfortunately only the "old" Contax primes that have the ability to
manually stop down the aperture.  Zork have confirmed that there is no
adaptor for the 645 Contax lenses for this reason.  Sure would be nice if
someone made a full electronic interface/adaptor.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Scott McLoughlin <scott@...>

> 
> I'm not a Canon shooter, but I've read that Contax and Leica
> primes were gaining new popularity on the Canon digital bodies.
>

RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by John Moody

Steve,
Rent or borrow a 135 f/2 and a 35mm f/1.4, both L glass of course.  Better
be sitting down when you open one of those 1DsII raw files....

Best regards,
John Moody
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Steve Kale
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 1:32 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

I suspect that noise will still be a big issue.  The medium format backs
will beat the Canon "Big Dog" if only because an SLR shooter requires a
level of speed that the typical medium format digi-back shooter doesn't.  At
some point I am sure speed implies greater noise (I am not talking about ISO
speed).

I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes close to
my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.

I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, with
the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
day.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Richard

I heard of someone here in Zurich who has fastened his Canon 1DS MkII to a
Sinar/Rodenstock combination(!!). Got someone to fashion a backplate from a
canon lens mount. Don't know if it's true. Must only be using a fraction of
the lens coverage.

 

  _____  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
McLoughlin
Sent: 24 August 2005 19:42
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

 

It seems the MF folks (Mamiya, etc.) are still commited to new
R&D and delivering ever more fantastic primes, like Leica and
Zeiss in the 135 format.  Canon and Nikon seem to spend the vast
majority of their attention on producing new zoom lenses.

I'm not a Canon shooter, but I've read that Contax and Leica
primes were gaining new popularity on the Canon digital bodies.

Scott


Steve Kale wrote:

>
> I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
> two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
> Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
> f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes 
> close to
> my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.
>
> I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, 
> with
> the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
> day. 
>



Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.





SPONSORED LINKS 


Digital
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+technique&w1=Digita
l+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Prof
essional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=hJsrVba0gCE
H_EJWeAPgGg>  photography technique 

Digital
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photogra
phy+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+d
igital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=XjDj6rzZjV2EEB5dX9StO
Q>  photography 

Photography
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photograp
hy+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+di
gital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=bTvYzsfL5ix-2_1p-F8DJA
>  school 


Professional
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Dig
ital+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=P
rofessional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=qgOfEeUJ
mLsjLLLBKDbu5A>  digital photography 

Stock
<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photograph
y+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+dig
ital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=MYCryIdDyueUNlYN9BYuig>
photography 

 

 

  _____  

YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS 

 

*	 Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint> " on the web.
  
*	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
 DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Uns
ubscribe> 
  
*	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo!
<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>  Terms of Service. 

 

  _____  



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Canon 5D comments from DP Review

2005-08-24 by Megan Milligan

Can't remember if anyoen posted this or not, but this is what DP Review had to say about the upcoming Canon 5D (copied & pasted from the original webpage)

Canon EOS 5D, full-frame 12.8 megapixelMonday, 22 August 2005  10:00 GMT< PrevNext >
The biggest surprise of the day (not) will be Canon's much-leaked EOS 5D. Yes, the specifications floating around for the last two weeks were accurate, this camera slots in above the EOS 20D but below the EOS-1D series with its full-frame (35 mm negative size) 12.8 megapixel CMOS sensor. Other key specifications; 3.0 fps continuous shooting, spot metering, custom settings mode, Picture Style parameters, 2.5" wide viewing angle LCD monitor, marginally larger than the EOS 20D, USB 2.0 High-speed, compatible with WFT-E1 wireless transmitter. The EOS 5D is certainly unique and will no doubt be of great interest to a great variety of photographers. The EOS 5D will be available in October priced at $3299 (US) / €3459 (EU).

Click here for our preview of the Canon EOS 5D
(detailed specifications, product images, technical papers) 

Click here for Canon EOS 5D samples posted on the Canon Japan website 

Press Release:
Canon’s full frame, compact EOS 5D
defines new D-SLR category
 

Amstelveen, The Netherlands, 22 August, 2005 - Canon, a leader in photographic and imaging technology, announces the 12.8 Megapixel EOS 5D, creating a new D-SLR category combining a full frame CMOS sensor with a lightweight, compact magnesium alloy body. Weighing just 810 grams, it features a second generation 35.8 x 23.9 mm CMOS sensor, 3 frame per second, 60 Large JPEG frame burst and 0.2 second start up time operation.

“The discreet full frame EOS 5D is the camera many photojournalists and agencies have been asking us for,” said Mogens Jensen, Head of Canon Consumer Imaging Europe. “It will be an indispensable piece of equipment for a wide range of professionals – from contemporary wedding to reportage photographers.”

Marking five years since Canon’s first CMOS image sensor appeared in the EOS D30, the release represents Canon’s fifth new CMOS sensor to be released since April 2004. “CMOS sensors are a critical technology advantage driving Canon’s rapid digital SLR development,” remarked Jensen.

Equivalent in size to a frame of 35mm film, the camera’s 35.8 x 23.9 mm CMOS sensor gives photographers a full angle of view without magnification or cropping effect. It provides tighter control over depth of field and improves image quality by capturing more light with its large pixels.

Key features

Super responsive, the EOS 5D is driven by the same DIGIC II processor found in Canon’s EOS-1D professional range cameras.

Protected with a rugged yet lightweight magnesium alloy exterior, the camera also features new Picture Style pre-sets, a new hi-resolution 2.5” LCD monitor, 9-point auto focus with 6 invisible Assist AF points to improve tracking performance, compatibility with Wireless File Transmitter WFT-E1, custom mode for fast recall of user defined camera set-ups, USB 2.0 Hi-Speed interface for fast downloads and 1/8000 – 30 second shutter speed with X-sync at 1/200s.

The CMOS advantage

With five years of in-house CMOS development since the original EOS D30, Canon’s latest CMOS sensor features 12.8 Megapixels, and the same second-generation on-chip noise reduction circuitry used on the EOS-1Ds Mark II. This effectively suppresses random noise and eliminates fixed-pattern noise for extremely clean, hi-fidelity images. Wide 100-1600 ISO speed range is extendable to L:50 and H:3200. Large 8.2 \uf06dm pixels allow the capture of a superior dynamic range, enabling the reproduction of subtle tonal gradations in shadow, midtone and highlight areas. 

Improved in-camera control

New Picture Style pre-sets simplify in-camera control over image quality. Delivering more immediately usable JPEG images straight out of the camera without need for post-production, Picture Style pre-sets can be likened to different film types – each one offering a different colour response. Within each easily selectable pre-set, photographers have control over sharpness, contrast, colour tone and saturation.

The pre-sets include:

   Standard – for crisp, vivid images that don’t require post-processing; 
   Portrait – optimises colour tone and saturation and weakens sharpening to achieve attractive skin tones; 
   Landscape – for deep greens and blues with stronger sharpening to give a crisp edge to mountain, tree and building outlines); 
   Neutral – ideal for post-processing; 
   Faithful – adjusts colour to match the subject colour when shot under a colour temperature of 5200K; 
   Monochrome – for black and white shooting with a range of filter effects (yellow, orange, red and green) and toning effects (sepia, blue, purple and green) 

Additionally, 3 user-defined entries allow the possibility to create additional variations on the in-camera styles or install additional custom Picture Style files. Additional custom Picture Style files may be downloaded from Canon’s web site. 

Picture Style replaces internal image processing previously controlled by setting processing parameters and colour matrix. Picture Style is also supported by the supplied Digital Photo Professional and RAW Image Task software.

New LCD monitor

For improved image review and menu readability, the EOS 5D is fitted with a new large-size high-resolution 2.5” 230K pixel poly-silicon TFT LCD monitor. The improved screen retains brightness and visibility throughout a wide 170° angle of view, both vertically and horizontally, making it easy to view images when the camera is mounted in a fixed position. 

Auto focus

A newly developed 9-point auto focus system features 6 additional invisible Assist AF points located inside the spot-metering circle. These points come into effect when the camera is switched to AI SERVO AF with the centre focus point selected and are automatically used to improve the camera’s subject tracking performance.

Ergonomics and control

The ‘Premium EOS’ design features a magnesium alloy exterior with rubberized grip surfaces. The discreet and lightweight compact body measures just 152 x 113 x 75 mm and weighs only 810 g making it two thirds the volume and weight of the EOS-1Ds Mark II. 

In a handy new feature, current camera settings can be stored and assigned to the C (camera settings) position on the Mode Dial. This allows photographers to switch quickly between two completely different camera set-ups without having to switch bodies – ideal for photographers who need to rapidly switch their cameras from an indoor to outdoor shooting condition, for example. Exposure mode, ISO speed, AF mode, drive mode, Picture Style, white balance and custom functions are all stored in the custom setting. There are 21 custom functions with 57 user-definable settings to enable photographers to configure the camera for their preferred way of working.

Connectivity

With the optional Wireless File Transmitter WFT-E1, photographers can work cable-free as full-frame image files can be transferred automatically through a wireless LAN to a computer in seconds . 

A USB 2.0 Hi-Speed interface allows rapid transfer of images from camera to computer, ideal for shooting straight-to-hard-drive with the camera tethered to a computer in a studio environment, thus providing full screen previews of images as they are shot. The EOS 5D also has a Video out interface to allow playback and review on a TV monitor, and is PictBridge compliant to support direct printing to any compatible photo printer without the need for a computer. It takes both CompactFlash Type I and Type II cards, including cards of 2 Gb capacity and larger.

Compatibility and accessories 

The EOS 5D offers complete compatibility with all Canon EF lenses , providing photographers with access to a vast range of lenses with focal lengths from 14 to 600 mm. 

The camera’s launch coincides with the release of the high performance EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM a lightweight Image Stabilizer lens. Completing Canon’s f/4L-series zoom lens range, the new lens complements the EF17-40mm f/4L USM and EF70-200mm f/4L USM lenses. An ideal match for the lightweight EOS 5D, these lenses are designed for professional photographers requiring high quality lightweight lenses with a fixed aperture throughout the zoom range.

Also compatible with EX series Speedlites and other EOS accessories, the camera provides photographers with a highly adaptable and flexible camera system. Canon’s E-TTL II flash metering ensures accurate flash exposures by taking into account such factors as lens distance information, ambient light readings and the detection of reflective objects in order to calculate flash output. 

The BG-E4 is a new battery grip designed especially for the EOS 5D. Constructed with the same magnesium alloy as the camera’s exterior, it has a solid and comfortable hold. The grip can accommodate two BP-511A/514/512/511 battery packs or six AA batteries . The Battery Grip BG-E4 features a shutter release button, AE/FE lock button, AF point selector and main dial to enable comfortable use of the camera when held vertically.

The camera’s focussing screens are interchangeable: in addition to the “Standard Precision Matte” (Ee-A) focussing screen supplied with the camera, “Precision Matte with Grid” (Ee-D) and Super Precision Matte (Ee-S) screens are available.

The EOS 5D supports the optional Data Verification Kit DVK-E2 v2.2, which verifies the authenticity of images taken with the camera.

New software

The EOS 5D is supplied with the EOS Digital Solution Disk v11, which includes a new version of Canon’s Digital Photo Professional (DPP) RAW processing software – now at version 2.0. DPP now supports RAW images shot on all EOS digital cameras from the EOS D30 onwards, and includes support for Picture Styles. Improvements and additions are aimed at improving functionality and workflow efficiency for professionals, and include: easy image selection with three levels of check marks; real-time adjustment of sharpness; improved image correction (Copy Stamp); enhanced image transfer function –single image transfer to PhotoShop is possible; extended colour space support, now including Apple RGB and ColorMatch RGB; and improved usability of the CMYK simulation function.

Also provided is on the EOS Digital Solution Disk v11 is ZoomBrowser EX (PC) and ImageBrowser (MAC) v5.5 for managing images, EOS Capture v1.5 for remote shooting, PhotoStitch v3.1, PhotoRecord v2.2 (PC) and RAW ImageTask v2.2. The EOS 5D is compatible with CANON iMAGE GATEWAY , which provides a 100 MB online photo album.

Comprehensive range

This new category camera adds to Canon’s already comprehensive D-SLR range. In terms of speed and resolution, Canon has the leading performance camera in every D-SLR segment, all launched since April last year:

   EOS-1Ds Mark II – 16.7 Megapixel full frame 35 mm sensor, 4 fps 
   EOS-1D Mark II N – 8.2 Megapixel APS-H size sensor, 8.5 fps 
   EOS 5D – 12.8 Megapixel full frame sensor, 3 fps 
   EOS 20D – 8.2 Megapixel APS-C size sensor, 5 fps 
   EOS 350D Digital – 8.0 Megapixel APS-C size sensor, 3 fps 


 



 

test'; ">
		
---------------------------------
 Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Adam Maas

Steve Kale wrote:
> I should add though that one of the bigger issues facing digital cameras is
> their exposure/metering systems.  Designed for film these systems have not
> made the transition to exposing for the linear nature of a chip.  They still
> meter for a "middle grey" - not necessarily 18% but still a middle grey of
> some sort.  The manufacturers still have a leg in either camp.  Their
> metering is film centric while the capture plane is digital.  The sooner the
> two are properly aligned the better.  In my humble opinion, a change here
> will do more for 35mm digital quality than a few more pixels.
> 
> 

Nikon's headed that way. The Color Matrix II meters are clearly designed 
for digital, although the higher-end version is merely a variant on the 
older 1005 pixel Color Matrix meter from the F5.

-Adam

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Paul Aparycki

>I'm not a Canon shooter, but I've read that Contax and Leica
>primes were gaining new popularity on the Canon digital bodies.

>Scott

As collectibles? Contax (Kyocera) has/or will by the end of the year,
stopped manufacturing cameras and lenses.

This is one of the truly negative effects of the digi-doer "revolution?",
the loss of some really fine glass from a variety of sources.

Paul Aparycki

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Steve Kale

As I have noted before, a well-connected and well-known reviewer whispered
to me that he believes moves are afoot to "reinvent" Contax.... PhaseOne
contimues to support Contax with the new backs.  I'd love to see Phase One
acquire the Contax MF division.  The shutdown costs could well exceed the
value of the division and so Phase One could well acquire it for almost
nothing. It ain't over yet so don't be tossing that equipment too soon...
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Paul Aparycki <tawow@...>

> 
> As collectibles? Contax (Kyocera) has/or will by the end of the year,
> stopped manufacturing cameras and lenses.
> 
> This is one of the truly negative effects of the digi-doer "revolution?",
> the loss of some really fine glass from a variety of sources.
> 
> Paul Aparycki

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Steve Kale

Yeah I'm sure.  I have been drooling over the 85mm f1.2L, the 135mm f2.0L
and the 180mm f3.5L Macro.  I am really not that happy with my 28-70 f2.8L
(the 100-300 f2.8L is much sharper).  But common sense suggests that the
more practical lens would be to upgrade to the 24-70mm f2.8L. I was really
hoping to hear an announcement re more new lenses.  Another concern I have
is the variability in production of these things.  Seems there are good
units and bad units.  I refuse to pay UK prices for this stuff and so have
typically purchased from B&H or Adorama while visiting NYC.  Makes testing
the individual unit a little difficult.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: John Moody <moodymz3@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:36:23 -0400
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
> 
> Steve,
> Rent or borrow a 135 f/2 and a 35mm f/1.4, both L glass of course.  Better
> be sitting down when you open one of those 1DsII raw files....
> 
> Best regards,
> John Moody
>

RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by John Moody

I had the 28-70 f/2.8L and sold it to buy the 24-70 f/2.8L.  Mine was
pristine, so I got almost what I paid for it at B&H initially.  The new
glass is noticeably better in prints, and wider.

I have the 1Ds.  If I had the 1DsII, I would be sure to own one of those
primes; the camera needs it. :-)

I tend to disbelieve much of the "bad copy" stuff I see on the internet;
maybe I'm lucky or too easily pleased.  Maybe it is mirror lockup and a
solid tripod with remote shutter release. :-)
I was afraid to buy the 17-85 for my Rebel XT from all the bad reviews;
maybe I got lucky, but it is a wonderful lens.  Even at 17mm, crane cables
from a shipyard are very sharp for a zoom with this range, with CA reduction
in CS2 of course.

Best regards,
John Moody
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Steve Kale
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 2:58 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

Yeah I'm sure.  I have been drooling over the 85mm f1.2L, the 135mm f2.0L
and the 180mm f3.5L Macro.  I am really not that happy with my 28-70 f2.8L
(the 100-300 f2.8L is much sharper).  But common sense suggests that the
more practical lens would be to upgrade to the 24-70mm f2.8L. I was really
hoping to hear an announcement re more new lenses.  Another concern I have
is the variability in production of these things.  Seems there are good
units and bad units.  I refuse to pay UK prices for this stuff and so have
typically purchased from B&H or Adorama while visiting NYC.  Makes testing
the individual unit a little difficult.


> From: John Moody <moodymz3@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 14:36:23 -0400
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
>
> Steve,
> Rent or borrow a 135 f/2 and a 35mm f/1.4, both L glass of course.  Better
> be sitting down when you open one of those 1DsII raw files....
>
> Best regards,
> John Moody
>




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Scott McLoughlin
<scott@a...> wrote:
...
> I'm not a Canon shooter, but I've read that Contax and Leica
> primes were gaining new popularity on the Canon digital bodies.

Well I have an adapter and am using old older Contax Ziess T* lenses
on my 1DS.
Have not been impressed. Manual stop down, manual focus on these
impossible viewfinders, very difficult to work with.
I'll know more the more I work with it all, but am leaning back toward
just using the canon lenses.
If you are lucky enough to nail focus, and the moon is in the right
phase, and you're at the perfect f-stop, maybe they are worth the
trouble, but I have no real working evidence yet.
Tyler

RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by Paul Roark

Tyler wrote:

 
> Well I have an adapter and am using old older Contax Ziess T* lenses
> on my 1DS.
> Have not been impressed. ...

I made an adapter to put all my Rollei SL66 (Zeiss) glass on my Canon FD.
It allowed me to tilt all of them for better depth of field control, but it
was not worth the trouble.  

Canon's best prime lenses are about as good it gets (even though some of my
MF lenses hit higher resolutions than my Canon L lenses in my testing).
Focus accuracy and vibration make the very high test resolutions irrelevant
in the real world.  Actually, the focal plane shutter vibration is a lot
more of a sharpness killer than most realize.  Leaf shutters are greatly
underappreciated. 

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-24 by chipcarterdc

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:

Yeah, but I'd think that, unless you're using mirror lockup, the mirror slap is more of an issue 
than the shutter (focal plane or leaf), right?  I don't recall ever noticing any significant 
difference in sharpness between my Rollei 6008 (leaf shutters) and my Contax 645.

Actually, the focal plane shutter vibration is a lot
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> more of a sharpness killer than most realize.  Leaf shutters are greatly
> underappreciated. 
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Richard Corbett

How?

Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)


I should add though that one of the bigger issues facing digital cameras is
their exposure/metering systems.  Designed for film these systems have not
made the transition to exposing for the linear nature of a chip.  They still
meter for a "middle grey" - not necessarily 18% but still a middle grey of
some sort.  The manufacturers still have a leg in either camp.  Their
metering is film centric while the capture plane is digital.  The sooner the
two are properly aligned the better.  In my humble opinion, a change here
will do more for 35mm digital quality than a few more pixels.


> From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>

>
> I suspect that noise will still be a big issue.  The medium format backs
> will beat the Canon "Big Dog" if only because an SLR shooter requires a
> level of speed that the typical medium format digi-back shooter doesn't. 
> At
> some point I am sure speed implies greater noise (I am not talking about 
> ISO
> speed).
>
> I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
> two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
> Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
> f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes close 
> to
> my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.
>
> I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, 
> with
> the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
> day.
>
>
>> From: <claudej1@...>
>
>>
>> I'm just saying that if Canon were to take the amazing performance of the
>> 20d's electronics, maintain the same well site pitch, and make a full 
>> frame
>> chip
>>  with it, they would have a 24 Megapixel Super-Baaaaad Big Dog SLR that 
>> they
>> could advertise as having more pixels than the more expensive Medium 
>> Format
>> backs.
>>
>> Since the average resolution of premium Canon glass is 20-100% higher 
>> than
>> medium format glass, they would compare favorably with the MF backs/MF
>> cameras
>> costing much more so a jump from 16 Megapixels to 24 is entirely feasible
>> RIGHT NOW if they want to do it.
>>
>> But it's all words on my part not theirs.
>>
>> Claude
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
> membership
> without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
> the
> membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner 
> and
> Moderators. See \u201eGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\u2030 in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \u201eOWNER\u2030 AND
> \u201eMODERATORS\u2030 OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO 
> YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
> GOODWILL,
> USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  \u201eOWNER\u2030 AND 
> \u201eMODERATORS\u2030 OF
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
> SUCH
> DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL 
> BW,
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR
> TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON 
> THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO 
> THE
> DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND 
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND 
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links







---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]


---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Paul Roark

> Yeah, but I'd think that, unless you're using mirror lockup, the mirror
> slap is more of an issue than the shutter (focal plane or leaf), right? 

Yes.  I would never have a camera with no mirror lockup.  Hand held it's not
that big a deal, but I usually use a tripod.  To get total system weight
down, I much prefer the leaf shutter and light tripod combo.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> I don't recall ever
> noticing any significant
> difference in sharpness between my Rollei 6008 (leaf shutters) and my
> Contax 645.
> 
> > Actually, the focal plane shutter vibration is a lot
> > more of a sharpness killer than most realize.  Leaf shutters are greatly
> > underappreciated.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Peter Marshall

The essential tool is built into the digital camera I use and is called 
a histogram! 

I use it all the time, and I think it will remain the only way to get 
optimum exposure. Incidentally I think Nikon have tweaked their 
auto-exposure system to give better results from digital, certainly my 
experience suggests that the D70 is an improvement in this respect on 
the D100.

Regards,

Peter Marshall
petermarshall@...     +44 (0)1784 456474
_________________________________________________________________
My London Diary	              http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
The Buildings of London etc:  http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
and elsewhere......



Richard Corbett wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>How?
>
>Richard
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
>To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
>Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:42 PM
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
>
>
>I should add though that one of the bigger issues facing digital cameras is
>their exposure/metering systems.  Designed for film these systems have not
>made the transition to exposing for the linear nature of a chip.  They still
>meter for a "middle grey" - not necessarily 18% but still a middle grey of
>some sort.  The manufacturers still have a leg in either camp.  Their
>metering is film centric while the capture plane is digital.  The sooner the
>two are properly aligned the better.  In my humble opinion, a change here
>will do more for 35mm digital quality than a few more pixels.
>
>
>  
>
>>From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
>>    
>>
>
>  
>
>>I suspect that noise will still be a big issue.  The medium format backs
>>will beat the Canon "Big Dog" if only because an SLR shooter requires a
>>level of speed that the typical medium format digi-back shooter doesn't. 
>>At
>>some point I am sure speed implies greater noise (I am not talking about 
>>ISO
>>speed).
>>
>>I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass.  I only have
>>two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L.  Admittedly the
>>Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 24-70
>>f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes close 
>>to
>>my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.
>>
>>I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld, 
>>with
>>the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and detail any
>>day.
>>
>>    
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>

RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Paul D. DeRocco

> From: Peter Marshall
> 
> The essential tool is built into the digital camera I use and is called 
> a histogram! 
> 
> I use it all the time, and I think it will remain the only way to get 
> optimum exposure. Incidentally I think Nikon have tweaked their 
> auto-exposure system to give better results from digital, certainly my 
> experience suggests that the D70 is an improvement in this respect on 
> the D100.

Trouble is, it only works _after_ shooting. If you want to know if individual pixels are clipped, you can't deduce that from a conventional exposure meter--you have to look at all the pixels coming off the sensor, which basically means you have to take the picture.

I'd like to see an indicator in the viewfinder that tells if more than a certain small fraction of pixels have clipping in them.

-- 

Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
Paul                mailto:pderocco@...com.com

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Steve Kale

Yes the histogramme is a histo of the inbuilt jpeg conversion.  The inherent
problem is the metering which is still "multi-point expose for mid grey" (if
that's an appropriate abbreviation).  For digital things become a little
more complex.  Ideally the metering system would determine the brightest
portion in the frame and expose that at white or just fractionally under -
letting the other points fall as they may. (Think of a right-justified
histogramme with nothing blown.)  The issue with this is a specular
highlight (which should be blown) could upset the overall exposure and
detail could be lost in the shadows where there are so few levels.  [But
personally I would rather see a non-blown histo displayed and then choose to
blow the specular highlights if necessary with exposure compensation.]  The
conversion to jpeg (and hence the histogramme formation) would require
something more like ACR's auto exposure adjustment to rebalance the image
levels to a more normal (multi-point expose for grey) exposure.  Then we
have many more levels in the lower half of the histogramme to work with.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:28:07 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
> 
>> From: Peter Marshall
>> 
>> The essential tool is built into the digital camera I use and is called
>> a histogram! 
>> 
>> I use it all the time, and I think it will remain the only way to get
>> optimum exposure. Incidentally I think Nikon have tweaked their
>> auto-exposure system to give better results from digital, certainly my
>> experience suggests that the D70 is an improvement in this respect on
>> the D100.
> 
> Trouble is, it only works _after_ shooting. If you want to know if individual
> pixels are clipped, you can't deduce that from a conventional exposure
> meter--you have to look at all the pixels coming off the sensor, which
> basically means you have to take the picture.
> 
> I'd like to see an indicator in the viewfinder that tells if more than a
> certain small fraction of pixels have clipping in them.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@...

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Steve Kale

Good points.  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 24 Aug 2005 19:37:11 -0000
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Scott McLoughlin
> <scott@a...> wrote:
> ...
>> I'm not a Canon shooter, but I've read that Contax and Leica
>> primes were gaining new popularity on the Canon digital bodies.
> 
> Well I have an adapter and am using old older Contax Ziess T* lenses
> on my 1DS.
> Have not been impressed. Manual stop down, manual focus on these
> impossible viewfinders, very difficult to work with.
> I'll know more the more I work with it all, but am leaning back toward
> just using the canon lenses.
> If you are lucky enough to nail focus, and the moon is in the right
> phase, and you're at the perfect f-stop, maybe they are worth the
> trouble, but I have no real working evidence yet.
> Tyler

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Richard Corbett

You can do that already using a Canon.

Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 11:00 AM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)


Yes the histogramme is a histo of the inbuilt jpeg conversion.  The inherent
problem is the metering which is still "multi-point expose for mid grey" (if
that's an appropriate abbreviation).  For digital things become a little
more complex.  Ideally the metering system would determine the brightest
portion in the frame and expose that at white or just fractionally under -
letting the other points fall as they may. (Think of a right-justified
histogramme with nothing blown.)  The issue with this is a specular
highlight (which should be blown) could upset the overall exposure and
detail could be lost in the shadows where there are so few levels.  [But
personally I would rather see a non-blown histo displayed and then choose to
blow the specular highlights if necessary with exposure compensation.]  The
conversion to jpeg (and hence the histogramme formation) would require
something more like ACR's auto exposure adjustment to rebalance the image
levels to a more normal (multi-point expose for grey) exposure.  Then we
have many more levels in the lower half of the histogramme to work with.


> From: "Paul D. DeRocco" <pderocco@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 02:28:07 -0700
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
>
>> From: Peter Marshall
>>
>> The essential tool is built into the digital camera I use and is called
>> a histogram!
>>
>> I use it all the time, and I think it will remain the only way to get
>> optimum exposure. Incidentally I think Nikon have tweaked their
>> auto-exposure system to give better results from digital, certainly my
>> experience suggests that the D70 is an improvement in this respect on
>> the D100.
>
> Trouble is, it only works _after_ shooting. If you want to know if 
> individual
> pixels are clipped, you can't deduce that from a conventional exposure
> meter--you have to look at all the pixels coming off the sensor, which
> basically means you have to take the picture.
>
> I'd like to see an indicator in the viewfinder that tells if more than a
> certain small fraction of pixels have clipping in them.
>
> -- 
>
> Ciao,               Paul D. DeRocco
> Paul                mailto:pderocco@...





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links






---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]


---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Steve Kale

Only by trial and error.  The exposure meter does not "expose to the right"
for any given scene.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> From: Richard Corbett <richard@...-bulldog.com>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:33:12 +0100
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
> 
> You can do that already using a Canon.
> 
> Richard

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Richard Corbett

Use the highlight and shadow spot function to check the subject brightness 
range and then manually adjust to get the highlight "just so" using the 
cameras built in functions.

Richard
Show quoted textHide quoted text
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 6:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)


Only by trial and error.  The exposure meter does not "expose to the right"
for any given scene.


> From: Richard Corbett <richard@...-bulldog.com>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 18:33:12 +0100
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
>
> You can do that already using a Canon.
>
> Richard





Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as 
they are often being updated.

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint

If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to 
unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same 
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep 
them short.
- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames. 
Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the 
membership without notice.
- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W 
printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from 
the membership.
- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner and 
Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files section:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU 
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY 
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, 
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND 
"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE 
POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY 
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR 
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY 
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

Yahoo! Groups Links






---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]


---
[This E-mail has been scanned for viruses but it is your responsibility 
to maintain up to date anti virus software on the device that you are
currently using to read this email. ]

Re: 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by paulvtt

OK, thanks, now I understand. It will be interesting and maybe 
expensive to see what they do.

PV

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, claudej1@a... 
wrote:
>  
> In a message dated 8/23/2005 8:51:48 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
> DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com writes:
> 
> Please  explain further the last paragraph of your message. I 
don't 
> understand  what you are saying there. A 1Ds full frame 24 
megapixel 
> equal to the  20D?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> PV
> 
> 
> 
> I'm just saying that if Canon were to take the amazing performance 
of the  
> 20d's electronics, maintain the same well site pitch, and make a 
full frame chip 
>  with it, they would have a 24 Megapixel Super-Baaaaad Big Dog SLR 
that they  
> could advertise as having more pixels than the more expensive 
Medium Format  
> backs.
>  
> Since the average resolution of premium Canon glass is 20-100% 
higher than  
> medium format glass, they would compare favorably with the MF 
backs/MF cameras  
> costing much more so a jump from 16 Megapixels to 24 is entirely 
feasible  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> RIGHT NOW if they want to do it.
>  
> But it's all words on my part not theirs.
>  
> Claude
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Scott McLoughlin

I find with contrasty stree shooting (city streets + sky), I'll still 
get the
sky blown out on my D70. But in flash light or with studio strobes,
well, I find I'll get somewhat flat exposures (histogram too far to the
left). In the studio I can just watch the monitor and adjust the lighting
appropriately, a god send. But yes, in the end, a somewhat flatter or
darker exposure is preferable to blown highlights in any case.

I tried the famed 'white wedding' custom curve, but to my untrained
eye, I didn't notice a big change in this pattern.

Lately I've been shooting raw trying the "expose to the right" trick by
checking the on camera historgram and tweaking exposure compensation
to suit. Then I dial in a darker exposure as appropriate during RAW
processing. It's all quite new to me, and I'm not quick with it yet, but
I've seen some positive results - nevertheless, with quite a bit of futzing
vs. shooting some Reala in a film body :-)

Scott

Peter Marshall wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> The essential tool is built into the digital camera I use and is called
> a histogram!
>
> I use it all the time, and I think it will remain the only way to get
> optimum exposure. Incidentally I think Nikon have tweaked their
> auto-exposure system to give better results from digital, certainly my
> experience suggests that the D70 is an improvement in this respect on
> the D100.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter Marshall
> petermarshall@... +44 (0)1784 456474
> _________________________________________________________________
> My London Diary http://mylondondiary.co.uk/
> London's Industrial Heritage: http://petermarshallphotos.co.uk/
> The Buildings of London etc: http://londonphotographs.co.uk/
> and elsewhere......
>
>
>
> Richard Corbett wrote:
>
> >How?
> >
> >Richard
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Steve Kale" <stevekale@...>
> >To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> >Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 6:42 PM
> >Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)
> >
> >
> >I should add though that one of the bigger issues facing digital 
> cameras is
> >their exposure/metering systems. Designed for film these systems have not
> >made the transition to exposing for the linear nature of a chip. They 
> still
> >meter for a "middle grey" - not necessarily 18% but still a middle 
> grey of
> >some sort. The manufacturers still have a leg in either camp. Their
> >metering is film centric while the capture plane is digital. The 
> sooner the
> >two are properly aligned the better. In my humble opinion, a change here
> >will do more for 35mm digital quality than a few more pixels.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>From: Steve Kale <stevekale@...>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >>I suspect that noise will still be a big issue. The medium format backs
> >>will beat the Canon "Big Dog" if only because an SLR shooter requires a
> >>level of speed that the typical medium format digi-back shooter 
> doesn't.
> >>At
> >>some point I am sure speed implies greater noise (I am not talking 
> about
> >>ISO
> >>speed).
> >>
> >>I am, though, very surprised by your comment re Canon glass. I only have
> >>two Canon lenses: the 28-70 f2.8L and the 70-200 f2.8L. Admittedly the
> >>Canon glass I have is one generation old - the first replaced by the 
> 24-70
> >>f2.8L and the second by an IS version - but neither of these comes 
> close
> >>to
> >>my Contax Zeiss 80mm planar or 120 Makro-Planar.
> >>
> >>I have used the Phase One backs (up to the P25) in a studio, handheld,
> >>with
> >>the Contax 645/80 Planar. They beat the 1ds2 for sharpness and 
> detail any
> >>day.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish 
> to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
> this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from 
> the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and 
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and Moderators. See \ufffdGroup Topic, Rules and Guidelines\ufffd in the 
> Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd 
> AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
> LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE 
> LOSSES (EVEN IF THE \ufffdOWNER\ufffd AND \ufffdMODERATORS\ufffd OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT 
> YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), 
> RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, 
> THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF 
> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
> PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER 
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography technique 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+technique&w1=Digital+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=hJsrVba0gCEH_EJWeAPgGg> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=XjDj6rzZjV2EEB5dX9StOQ> 
> 	Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=bTvYzsfL5ix-2_1p-F8DJA> 
>
> Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=qgOfEeUJmLsjLLLBKDbu5A> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+technique&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Photography+school&w4=Professional+digital+photography&w5=Stock+photography&c=5&s=145&.sig=MYCryIdDyueUNlYN9BYuig> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>
>     * Visit your group "DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>" on
>       the web.
>     * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>       DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>       <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>     * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>

Re: [Digital BW] 1Ds Mk III prediction (was new canons)

2005-08-25 by Scott McLoughlin

I wonder if we'll see a new breed of meters geared toward digital
capture?  That would be great, in my book. My Sekonic 358 isn't
all that spot-on when flash metering strobes with the D70. I can
tweak lighting with the camera tethered to a computer, but it's slower
than it "just working."

Paul D. DeRocco wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Trouble is, it only works _after_ shooting. If you want to know if 
> individual pixels are clipped, you can't deduce that from a 
> conventional exposure meter--you have to look at all the pixels coming 
> off the sensor, which basically means you have to take the picture.
>
> I'd like to see an indicator in the viewfinder that tells if more than 
> a certain small fraction of pixels have clipping in them.
>
>

Move to quarantaine

This moves the raw source file on disk only. The archive index is not changed automatically, so you still need to run a manual refresh afterward.