Digital BW, The Print

Greetings, group.

I've searched the archives, and have not come up with an answer,
although I imagine there is one there somewhere.

I've got a workflow using QTR with UT7 inks established, mostly on
premierart hotpress 325 gsm, and am very happy with most of the
results, as long as large black elements are not a major component of
the picture.  The dmax is such that if there are large shadow areas,
the print takes on a "muddy" feel. - High key prints, or those with
only small or diffuse shadow areas seem to look fine to me and other
viewers.

So the question is - does PremierArt print shield increase the dmax on
matte papers?  Has anyone had any experience with the PriemerArt ECO
coatings, and if so, does anyone know when the aerosol versions will
be available, and from where?

Thanks in advance -

Doug

Doug,

Premier Art Print Shield (solvent) does not increase dmax, at least as
normally used.  It actually decreases it.

(It sounds like your curve has a shadow ramp that needs fixing.) 

The water-based products like Eco can increase dmax, but smooth application
is tricky. 

Paul 
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Wolf
> Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:36 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Matte paper, sprays and dmax
> 
> Greetings, group.
> 
> I've searched the archives, and have not come up with an answer,
> although I imagine there is one there somewhere.
> 
> I've got a workflow using QTR with UT7 inks established, mostly on
> premierart hotpress 325 gsm, and am very happy with most of the
> results, as long as large black elements are not a major component of
> the picture.  The dmax is such that if there are large shadow areas,
> the print takes on a "muddy" feel. - High key prints, or those with
> only small or diffuse shadow areas seem to look fine to me and other
> viewers.
> 
> So the question is - does PremierArt print shield increase the dmax on
> matte papers?  Has anyone had any experience with the PriemerArt ECO
> coatings, and if so, does anyone know when the aerosol versions will
> be available, and from where?
> 
> Thanks in advance -
> 
> Doug
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Paul -

Thanks for the reply.  You may be right about needing some more curve
work - although the  21 step wedge looks "right".  Need to find access
to reflectance densitomiter I guess - the transmissive one I do have
access to isn't much help for this...

After I posted the original message, I stumbled accross Martin
Welsely's articles in the 'files' section.  Sounds like smooth coating
is indeed a problem.

Best -

DW

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> Doug,
> 
> Premier Art Print Shield (solvent) does not increase dmax, at least
as
> normally used.  It actually decreases it.
> 
> (It sounds like your curve has a shadow ramp that needs fixing.) 
> 
> The water-based products like Eco can increase dmax, but smooth
application
> is tricky. 
> 
> Paul 
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Doug
> > Wolf
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:36 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Matte paper, sprays and dmax
> > 
> > Greetings, group.
> > 
> > I've searched the archives, and have not come up with an answer,
> > although I imagine there is one there somewhere.
> > 
> > I've got a workflow using QTR with UT7 inks established, mostly on
> > premierart hotpress 325 gsm, and am very happy with most of the
> > results, as long as large black elements are not a major
component of
> > the picture.  The dmax is such that if there are large shadow
areas,
> > the print takes on a "muddy" feel. - High key prints, or those
with
> > only small or diffuse shadow areas seem to look fine to me and
other
> > viewers.
> > 
> > So the question is - does PremierArt print shield increase the
dmax on
> > matte papers?  Has anyone had any experience with the PriemerArt
ECO
> > coatings, and if so, does anyone know when the aerosol versions
will
> > be available, and from where?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance -
> > 
> > Doug
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the
Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER"
AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL
OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS
OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF
THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP;
(ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
DATA; (iii)
> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW,
THE

> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >

In the continuing quest for better dmax and more "punch" in my images,
I have to say, whatever MIS has done with the most recent UT7
formulation to make it work on RC paper, seems amazing to me.

Paul - after our exchange, I was digging through the paper stack and
found a packet with a few sheets of premium semigloss.  I remembered
reading a post from you about MIS claiming improved bronzing
characteristics, so I figured, what the heck - I'll give it a try (I
had long ago given up on RC papers as totally unacceptable with
pigmented inks - although, I never mastered the spray coating
technique, so that probably wasn't fair).

Well, the short answer is, I'm stunned.  There is still a little
bronzing (basically, reduced reflectance compared to the overall
print, in areas where K < ~2-3%) but you have to angle the print to
the light in such a way as to try to see it.  Under most conditions
and normal viewing angles, you don't see it at all.  And the blacks
are actually BLACK. What is really amazing is that this was achieved
as essentially a quad-tone mixing only the C, M, LC and LM inks.  Not
to mention that I think the micro detail is perceptibly much sharper
than any matte print (even EEM, which, archival or not has the
smoothest surface character of any matte paper I've used).

I had convinced myself that my matte prints looked pretty good, but
viewing them next to some prints of the same images on semigloss with
the latest UT7 inks - there is IMO no comparison.

Anybody in Austin, TX want to take the rest of my PAHP 325 paper off
my hands?? :-)

Doug

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> Doug,
> 
> Premier Art Print Shield (solvent) does not increase dmax, at least as
> normally used.  It actually decreases it.
> 
> (It sounds like your curve has a shadow ramp that needs fixing.) 
> 
> The water-based products like Eco can increase dmax, but smooth
application
> is tricky. 
> 
> Paul 
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
Doug
> > Wolf
> > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:36 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] Matte paper, sprays and dmax
> > 
> > Greetings, group.
> > 
> > I've searched the archives, and have not come up with an answer,
> > although I imagine there is one there somewhere.
> > 
> > I've got a workflow using QTR with UT7 inks established, mostly on
> > premierart hotpress 325 gsm, and am very happy with most of the
> > results, as long as large black elements are not a major component of
> > the picture.  The dmax is such that if there are large shadow areas,
> > the print takes on a "muddy" feel. - High key prints, or those with
> > only small or diffuse shadow areas seem to look fine to me and other
> > viewers.
> > 
> > So the question is - does PremierArt print shield increase the dmax on
> > matte papers?  Has anyone had any experience with the PriemerArt ECO
> > coatings, and if so, does anyone know when the aerosol versions will
> > be available, and from where?
> > 
> > Thanks in advance -
> > 
> > Doug
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
resources as
> > they are often being updated.
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
wish to
> > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
this same
> > page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
to keep
> > them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
flames.
> > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
digital B&W
> > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
removed from
> > the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
Owner
> > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > 
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
PRINT
> > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
LIABLE TO
> > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
BEEN
> > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
THE USE
> > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
DATA; (iii)

> > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
>

Doug,

Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium Semimatte.
Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the Premium
Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a gloss
differential between the paper white and areas with significant density, but
the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Wolf
> Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:05 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] No more (ok, very little) matte paper for me ...
> (was - Matte paper, sprays ...)
> 
> In the continuing quest for better dmax and more "punch" in my images,
> I have to say, whatever MIS has done with the most recent UT7
> formulation to make it work on RC paper, seems amazing to me.
> 
> Paul - after our exchange, I was digging through the paper stack and
> found a packet with a few sheets of premium semigloss.  I remembered
> reading a post from you about MIS claiming improved bronzing
> characteristics, so I figured, what the heck - I'll give it a try (I
> had long ago given up on RC papers as totally unacceptable with
> pigmented inks - although, I never mastered the spray coating
> technique, so that probably wasn't fair).
> 
> Well, the short answer is, I'm stunned.  There is still a little
> bronzing (basically, reduced reflectance compared to the overall
> print, in areas where K < ~2-3%) but you have to angle the print to
> the light in such a way as to try to see it.  Under most conditions
> and normal viewing angles, you don't see it at all.  And the blacks
> are actually BLACK. What is really amazing is that this was achieved
> as essentially a quad-tone mixing only the C, M, LC and LM inks.  Not
> to mention that I think the micro detail is perceptibly much sharper
> than any matte print (even EEM, which, archival or not has the
> smoothest surface character of any matte paper I've used).
> 
> I had convinced myself that my matte prints looked pretty good, but
> viewing them next to some prints of the same images on semigloss with
> the latest UT7 inks - there is IMO no comparison.
> 
> Anybody in Austin, TX want to take the rest of my PAHP 325 paper off
> my hands?? :-)
> 
> Doug
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > Premier Art Print Shield (solvent) does not increase dmax, at least as
> > normally used.  It actually decreases it.
> >
> > (It sounds like your curve has a shadow ramp that needs fixing.)
> >
> > The water-based products like Eco can increase dmax, but smooth
> application
> > is tricky.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> Doug
> > > Wolf
> > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:36 PM
> > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > Subject: [Digital BW] Matte paper, sprays and dmax
> > >
> > > Greetings, group.
> > >
> > > I've searched the archives, and have not come up with an answer,
> > > although I imagine there is one there somewhere.
> > >
> > > I've got a workflow using QTR with UT7 inks established, mostly on
> > > premierart hotpress 325 gsm, and am very happy with most of the
> > > results, as long as large black elements are not a major component of
> > > the picture.  The dmax is such that if there are large shadow areas,
> > > the print takes on a "muddy" feel. - High key prints, or those with
> > > only small or diffuse shadow areas seem to look fine to me and other
> > > viewers.
> > >
> > > So the question is - does PremierArt print shield increase the dmax on
> > > matte papers?  Has anyone had any experience with the PriemerArt ECO
> > > coatings, and if so, does anyone know when the aerosol versions will
> > > be available, and from where?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance -
> > >
> > > Doug
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> resources as
> > > they are often being updated.
> > >
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > >
> > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> wish to
> > > unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
> this same
> > > page.
> > >
> > > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> to keep
> > > them short.
> > > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> flames.
> > > Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> > > membership without notice.
> > > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
> digital B&W
> > > printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> removed from
> > > the membership.
> > > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> > > guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
> Owner
> > > and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> > > section:
> > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> > >
> > > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT
> > > YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> > > "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
> LIABLE TO
> > > YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> > > EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> > > PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> > > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
> BEEN
> > > ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
> THE USE
> > > OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> > > UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
> DATA; (iii)
> > > STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

Paul -

Thanks for the tips.  Looks like SemiMatte sheets are only available
in 17x22 format.  Looking at Amazon, 25 17x22 sheets are $73 - a fair
bit cheaper than Epson direct or other sources I've seen.  I've
ordered some to try.  Cutting it down to either 11x17 or 8.5x11 (at
$0.73/sheet) makes it a really economical solution.  Based on the
Wilhelm site, it doesn't look like it has quite the same archival
properties as other choices, but 133 year display life under UV
protection or >200 dark storage is pretty impressive :-).

As far as the Kirkland product - I've never really liked the look of a
full glossy print in monochrome, but if a project comes up where
that'd be appropriate, I'll keep that in mind - thanks.  Is the
Kirland paper stable / archival?

Doug

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> Doug,
> 
> Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium
Semimatte.
> Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the Premium
> Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a gloss
> differential between the paper white and areas with significant
density, but

> the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com

Are any of you guys trying the new Kodak glossy and lustre rc paper
that does away with most of the bronzing?


> > Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium
> Semimatte.
> > Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the
Premium
> > Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a
gloss

> > differential between the paper white and areas with significant
> density, but
> > the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.
> > 
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
>

Doug,

There is no Wilhelm or other accelerated aging data on the Kirkland paper,
but it, like the Premium Epson papers, shares the buffered interior paper
that seems to be one of the obvious (if only) differences between the Epson
Premium papers that get the ">200" year rating and those that don't.  So,
I'm guessing it's stable.

Paul
www.PaulRoark.com 

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> Wolf
> Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 6:12 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] No more (ok, very little) matte paper for me ...
> (was - Matte p
> 
> Paul -
> 
> Thanks for the tips.  Looks like SemiMatte sheets are only available
> in 17x22 format.  Looking at Amazon, 25 17x22 sheets are $73 - a fair
> bit cheaper than Epson direct or other sources I've seen.  I've
> ordered some to try.  Cutting it down to either 11x17 or 8.5x11 (at
> $0.73/sheet) makes it a really economical solution.  Based on the
> Wilhelm site, it doesn't look like it has quite the same archival
> properties as other choices, but 133 year display life under UV
> protection or >200 dark storage is pretty impressive :-).
> 
> As far as the Kirkland product - I've never really liked the look of a
> full glossy print in monochrome, but if a project comes up where
> that'd be appropriate, I'll keep that in mind - thanks.  Is the
> Kirland paper stable / archival?
> 
> Doug
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium
> Semimatte.
> > Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the Premium
> > Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a gloss
> > differential between the paper white and areas with significant
> density, but
> > the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

I got a pack of the Kodak Professional luster paper to play with.  It has
cat number 802 3343 on the package.  It is too blue for my taste in BW, but
I had fun creating QTR curves for it.  I’ll probably use it mostly for color
prints.

The Dmax is pretty huge, and it holds details well.  Consistent UT7 Dmax of
2.35 and occasionally 2.39.
If you want a cold paper, it is worth a try.  I got a Lab reading of 95.61,
0.54, -6.41 for paper white.

Best regards,
John Moody

-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of john dean
Sent: Saturday, October 08, 2005 11:22 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] No more (ok, very little) matte paper for me ...
(was - Matte p

Are any of you guys trying the new Kodak glossy and lustre rc paper
that does away with most of the bronzing?






[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" <paul.roark@v...> 
wrote:
>Hello,

Try Kodak Professional Inkjet Lustre. It prints very neutral with good tone separation and 
contrast. I've compared the same print using the Kodak and Epson Semi-Gloss and the 
Epson prints warmer with a flatter contrast.

Steve 
> Doug,
> 
> Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium Semimatte.
> Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the Premium
> Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a gloss
> differential between the paper white and areas with significant density, but
> the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doug
> > Wolf
> > Sent: Friday, October 07, 2005 11:05 AM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] No more (ok, very little) matte paper for me ...
> > (was - Matte paper, sprays ...)
> > 
> > In the continuing quest for better dmax and more "punch" in my images,
> > I have to say, whatever MIS has done with the most recent UT7
> > formulation to make it work on RC paper, seems amazing to me.
> > 
> > Paul - after our exchange, I was digging through the paper stack and
> > found a packet with a few sheets of premium semigloss.  I remembered
> > reading a post from you about MIS claiming improved bronzing
> > characteristics, so I figured, what the heck - I'll give it a try (I
> > had long ago given up on RC papers as totally unacceptable with
> > pigmented inks - although, I never mastered the spray coating
> > technique, so that probably wasn't fair).
> > 
> > Well, the short answer is, I'm stunned.  There is still a little
> > bronzing (basically, reduced reflectance compared to the overall
> > print, in areas where K < ~2-3%) but you have to angle the print to
> > the light in such a way as to try to see it.  Under most conditions
> > and normal viewing angles, you don't see it at all.  And the blacks
> > are actually BLACK. What is really amazing is that this was achieved
> > as essentially a quad-tone mixing only the C, M, LC and LM inks.  Not
> > to mention that I think the micro detail is perceptibly much sharper
> > than any matte print (even EEM, which, archival or not has the
> > smoothest surface character of any matte paper I've used).
> > 
> > I had convinced myself that my matte prints looked pretty good, but
> > viewing them next to some prints of the same images on semigloss with
> > the latest UT7 inks - there is IMO no comparison.
> > 
> > Anybody in Austin, TX want to take the rest of my PAHP 325 paper off
> > my hands?? :-)
> > 
> > Doug
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Doug,
> > >
> > > Premier Art Print Shield (solvent) does not increase dmax, at least as
> > > normally used.  It actually decreases it.
> > >
> > > (It sounds like your curve has a shadow ramp that needs fixing.)
> > >
> > > The water-based products like Eco can increase dmax, but smooth
> > application
> > > is tricky.
> > >
> > > Paul
> > > www.PaulRoark.com
> > >
> > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Doug
> > > > Wolf
> > > > Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2005 1:36 PM
> > > > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > > > Subject: [Digital BW] Matte paper, sprays and dmax
> > > >
> > > > Greetings, group.
> > > >
> > > > I've searched the archives, and have not come up with an answer,
> > > > although I imagine there is one there somewhere.
> > > >
> > > > I've got a workflow using QTR with UT7 inks established, mostly on
> > > > premierart hotpress 325 gsm, and am very happy with most of the
> > > > results, as long as large black elements are not a major component of
> > > > the picture.  The dmax is such that if there are large shadow areas,
> > > > the print takes on a "muddy" feel. - High key prints, or those with
> > > > only small or diffuse shadow areas seem to look fine to me and other
> > > > viewers.
> > > >
> > > > So the question is - does PremierArt print shield increase the dmax on
> > > > matte papers?  Has anyone had any experience with the PriemerArt ECO
> > > > coatings, and if so, does anyone know when the aerosol versions will
> > > > be available, and from where?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance -
> > > >
> > > > Doug
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > resources as
> > > > they are often being updated.
> > > >
> > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > > >
> > > > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> > wish to
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PRINT

> > > > YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
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> > 
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>

Steve -

Thanks for the info - I may give it a try - I've got a $50 store
credit at compUSA, need something to spend it on...

What's your sense of longevity with this paper - I know Wilhelm and
Kodak disagree fairly vehemently on stability testing.

Another question - what printing method are you using?  I use the UT7
inks with QTR for most things - what sort of profile and workflow are
you using for the Kodak paper?

Thanks -

Doug

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveh0607"
<steveh060758@m...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> 
> wrote:
> >Hello,
> 
> Try Kodak Professional Inkjet Lustre. It prints very neutral with
good tone separation and 
> contrast. I've compared the same print using the Kodak and Epson
Semi-Gloss and the 

> Epson prints warmer with a flatter contrast.
> 
> Steve

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Wolf" <dwphoto@a...> 
wrote:
>Kodak claims over 100 years. I read their White Paper on how they test; basically, (I think) 
they said they use the accepted method for testing silver prints. Rather than trying to 
remember their methodology and reasoning you can go to their web site and read it for 
yourself. But I suspect the longevity is good. Their White Paper made sense to me, but I'm 
not a professional in this area.

I can speak to what I see in the paper though. I don't have measuring devices, just my 
eyes. The blacks were deeper than the Epson SG and the cloud detail in the photo was 
much more natural; the clouds in the Epson print were warmer. And the Kodak overall had 
better midtones. The Epson mistones looked flat. To my eyes the Kodak print looks better.

I showed the print to other people whose opinion I respect and they felt the same way I 
did.

Someone else on the list thought the Kodak printed cooler. This person saw blueish tones. 
I didn't, but then everyone eyes are different.

I used the 2200 with Epson inks and printed both using the Black-Only method at 2880 
dpi; Gamma 1.8. I also printed both using QTR set for ESG and MCeramicLuster (for Kodak) 
at a 50-50 blend. Same result.

If you have a gift certificate you can't go wrong trying it. A box of 50 sheets costs $34 at 
my CompUSA store, or you can order from B&H and it'll cost $31 for 50 sheets, including 
shipping.

> Steve -
> 
> Thanks for the info - I may give it a try - I've got a $50 store
> credit at compUSA, need something to spend it on...
> 
> What's your sense of longevity with this paper - I know Wilhelm and
> Kodak disagree fairly vehemently on stability testing.
> 
> Another question - what printing method are you using?  I use the UT7
> inks with QTR for most things - what sort of profile and workflow are
> you using for the Kodak paper?
> 
> Thanks -
> 
> Doug
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveh0607"
> <steveh060758@m...> wrote:
> >
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> 
> > wrote:
> > >Hello,
> > 
> > Try Kodak Professional Inkjet Lustre. It prints very neutral with
> good tone separation and 
> > contrast. I've compared the same print using the Kodak and Epson
> Semi-Gloss and the 
> > Epson prints warmer with a flatter contrast.
> > 
> > Steve
>

Paul could be more specific about this, but from what I sensed from
wilhelm-research.com is, Kodak cooks the books in their longevity
testing as they have for at least 30 years. When I used to discuss
this with their tech reps they were always so arrogant and dismissive.
The had half a century to improve the stability of their c prints but
they didn't set it as a priority, and as a result millions of family
albums  and other historic material don't exit anymore.

Apparently, according to sir Wilhelm, they use much dimmer
illumination to test their own materials. ( to achive the results they
set out to achieve?.) It does seem a little self serving that they end
up with exactly 100 years. How convinient. It just happens to end up
at one century, which sounds so impressive doesn't it? 

I think this paper is certainly worth using and permanency is but one
factor to consider, but personally I wouldn't trust any of their
internal tests. They are probably not worth the white paper they are
written on. 

John





--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveh0607"
<steveh060758@m...> wrote:
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Doug Wolf"
<dwphoto@a...> 
> wrote:
> >Kodak claims over 100 years. I read their White Paper on how they
test; basically, (I think) 
> they said they use the accepted method for testing silver prints.
Rather than trying to 
> remember their methodology and reasoning you can go to their web
site and read it for 
> yourself. But I suspect the longevity is good. Their White Paper
made sense to me, but I'm 
> not a professional in this area.
> 
> I can speak to what I see in the paper though. I don't have
measuring devices, just my 
> eyes. The blacks were deeper than the Epson SG and the cloud detail
in the photo was 
> much more natural; the clouds in the Epson print were warmer. And
the Kodak overall had 
> better midtones. The Epson mistones looked flat. To my eyes the
Kodak print looks better.
> 
> I showed the print to other people whose opinion I respect and they
felt the same way I 
> did.
> 
> Someone else on the list thought the Kodak printed cooler. This
person saw blueish tones. 
> I didn't, but then everyone eyes are different.
> 
> I used the 2200 with Epson inks and printed both using the
Black-Only method at 2880 
> dpi; Gamma 1.8. I also printed both using QTR set for ESG and
MCeramicLuster (for Kodak) 
> at a 50-50 blend. Same result.
> 
> If you have a gift certificate you can't go wrong trying it. A box
of 50 sheets costs $34 at 
> my CompUSA store, or you can order from B&H and it'll cost $31 for
50 sheets, including 

> shipping.
> 
> > Steve -
> > 
> > Thanks for the info - I may give it a try - I've got a $50 store
> > credit at compUSA, need something to spend it on...
> > 
> > What's your sense of longevity with this paper - I know Wilhelm and
> > Kodak disagree fairly vehemently on stability testing.
> > 
> > Another question - what printing method are you using?  I use the UT7
> > inks with QTR for most things - what sort of profile and workflow are
> > you using for the Kodak paper?
> > 
> > Thanks -
> > 
> > Doug
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveh0607"
> > <steveh060758@m...> wrote:
> > >
> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> > <paul.roark@v...> 
> > > wrote:
> > > >Hello,
> > > 
> > > Try Kodak Professional Inkjet Lustre. It prints very neutral with
> > good tone separation and 
> > > contrast. I've compared the same print using the Kodak and Epson
> > Semi-Gloss and the 
> > > Epson prints warmer with a flatter contrast.
> > > 
> > > Steve
> >
>

Well - I've tried the Premium Semimatte, and the results are ...
interesting.  First observation - the surface is much more fragile
than either the PSG or PL papers.  Since it only comes 17x22, I
ordered one pack of that, and cut down a couple of sheets in 4's to
have some 8.5x11's to work with.  Just the act of lining the paper up
on the Rotatrim caused some fine scratching of the surface that
interferes with even ink deposition.

This is a lower contrast and lighter, overall, printing paper than
PSG, using the PSG profile.   With the PL profile seems to produce
about the same lightness, but less contrast than PL.  But the absolute
black (L=0) zones are ... wierd.  I have curves for coated paper that
leave out the black and only use C, LC, M and LM inks, and do a great
job on PSG or PL, without gloss differential in the blacks, and only a
small gloss differntial in the whites.  PSM, on the other hand, has no
gloss differential in the whites, but the pure (L=0, only) blacks are
duller, and have a puddling appearance that is just strange.  Going
into Photoshop and adjusting the levels so that the lowest black level
is L=2 instead of L=0 solved the problem without having to create an
all new curve (and the min L=2 still produces a pretty rich black),
but before doing that, the visual effect was just strange.  Backwards
bronzing - it has a different look than if you use MK on RC paper, and
doesn't rub off, but it nevertheless has a differant "surface character".

Anyway, sorry for the rambling post - just thought there might be one
or two of you interested in the outcome of this discussion.

D


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
>
> Doug,
> 
> Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium
Semimatte.
> Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the Premium
> Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a gloss
> differential between the paper white and areas with significant
density, but

> the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.
> 
> Paul
> www.PaulRoark.com 
>

what printer and what ink? On the 2400, PSM works good with the PSG  
setting, and looks nearly the same. There is a diferent kind of gloss  
diff on the 2400. It's just a hair more obvious on the extreme  
highlights than PSG
On Oct 13, 2005, at 7:50 PM, Doug Wolf wrote:

> Well - I've tried the Premium Semimatte, and the results are ...
> interesting.  First observation - the surface is much more fragile
> than either the PSG or PL papers.  Since it only comes 17x22, I
> ordered one pack of that, and cut down a couple of sheets in 4's to
> have some 8.5x11's to work with.  Just the act of lining the paper up
> on the Rotatrim caused some fine scratching of the surface that
> interferes with even ink deposition.
>
> This is a lower contrast and lighter, overall, printing paper than
> PSG, using the PSG profile.   With the PL profile seems to produce
> about the same lightness, but less contrast than PL.  But the absolute
> black (L=0) zones are ... wierd.  I have curves for coated paper that
> leave out the black and only use C, LC, M and LM inks, and do a great
> job on PSG or PL, without gloss differential in the blacks, and only a
> small gloss differntial in the whites.  PSM, on the other hand, has no
> gloss differential in the whites, but the pure (L=0, only) blacks are
> duller, and have a puddling appearance that is just strange.  Going
> into Photoshop and adjusting the levels so that the lowest black level
> is L=2 instead of L=0 solved the problem without having to create an
> all new curve (and the min L=2 still produces a pretty rich black),
> but before doing that, the visual effect was just strange.  Backwards
> bronzing - it has a different look than if you use MK on RC paper, and
> doesn't rub off, but it nevertheless has a differant "surface  
> character".
>
> Anyway, sorry for the rambling post - just thought there might be one
> or two of you interested in the outcome of this discussion.
>
> D
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark"
> <paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >
> > Doug,
> >
> > Try some Costco Kirkland Glossy inkjet paper and Epson Premium
> Semimatte.
> > Both are significantly better with respect to bronzing than the  
> Premium
> > Semigloss.  If one looks very critically at them there is still a  
> gloss
> > differential between the paper white and areas with significant
> density, but
> > the obnoxious bronzing is virtually gone.
> >
> > Paul
> > www.PaulRoark.com
> >
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Douglas meeuwsen
<lipshurt@m...> wrote:
>
> what printer and what ink? 

2200 with UT7 inkset

>On the 2400, PSM works good with the PSG  
> setting, and looks nearly the same. There is a diferent kind of gloss  
> diff on the 2400. It's just a hair more obvious on the extreme  
> highlights than PSG

Interesting - with the ink and profile combinations I'm using, the
gloss differential on the PSM is less pronounced than on the PSG, but
the areas with a faint gd are larger.  

In printing several of the same images, as close to optimal to my eye
with profile / curve tweaks, etc., as I can get them, I'm coming to
the conclusion that for my photo and printing style, PL = portrait,
PSG = landscape and PSM = still life - although I'll obviously deviate
from that if the image seems to fit it.