Digital BW, The Print

I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and I
am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the intrinsic
Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to the
intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought that
after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why ImagePrint
is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys are
apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the Bill
Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in most
cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color and
black and white print quality than with the standard profiles already
shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to create
the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and papers.
You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party papers, if
you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If one
spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour the
internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best possible
prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 3800, and
thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color profiles.
I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. If the
Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced which I
thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there separate
profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? The
profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for the
Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper combo,
but both could be improved. 
The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium presentation
matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow areas. 
Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color profiles for
the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
Thanks
Kevin Monroe

I hope you'll post the response to this letter. I just ordered a 3800  
and will be very interested.

Barbara White

I too have a 3800, but having owned several previous Epson printers 
was not in the least bit surprised that the canned profiles are 
mediocre at best, they always have been. But I agree they should do 
a lot better, at least for the more expensive printers.
My big disappointment with the 3800 is the paper handling-for this 
price, size, and class of machine it is absolutely miserable. It 
frequently (and repeatedly) rejects properly aligned rear-fed paper 
as 'skewed' and then proceeds to feed it and print it crooked. And 
top feeding 17" paper is very hit-or miss. It seems like every 3rd 
or 4th piece goes in skewed, sometimes resulting in a paper jam. 
I've had to rig up a guide extension using the lid of a 17x22" paper 
box to get it to feed right. Needing to come up a with such a rinky-
dink fix for a $1200 machine is absolutely galling, particulalry 
when they have produced so many smaller and much cheaper machines 
that work properly.
If there's another class-action suit brewing out there, I would 
happily add my name to the list!

Steven Karafyllakis

-- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m, "digikdm" 
<monroekd@...> wrote:
>
> I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and 
I
> am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the 
intrinsic

> Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
> Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
> Epson 2200 printer.

Steve,

I used to have similar problems with my 4000.  I've since discovered  
that simply manually feeding from the sheet feeder tray works  
perfectly for all papers (even canvas sheets).  Just load up the tray  
with paper and hit the front panel up arrow feed button once to load a  
sheet.  I don't know if the 3800 has a similar front loading tray or  
not, but if it does it might be worth trying.

Carl

On May 11, 2008, at 1:08 AM, Steven Karafyllakis wrote:

> I too have a 3800, but having owned several previous Epson printers
> was not in the least bit surprised that the canned profiles are
> mediocre at best, they always have been. But I agree they should do
> a lot better, at least for the more expensive printers.
> My big disappointment with the 3800 is the paper handling-for this
> price, size, and class of machine it is absolutely miserable. It
> frequently (and repeatedly) rejects properly aligned rear-fed paper
> as 'skewed' and then proceeds to feed it and print it crooked. And
> top feeding 17" paper is very hit-or miss. It seems like every 3rd
> or 4th piece goes in skewed, sometimes resulting in a paper jam.
> I've had to rig up a guide extension using the lid of a 17x22" paper
> box to get it to feed right. Needing to come up a with such a rinky-
> dink fix for a $1200 machine is absolutely galling, particulalry
> when they have produced so many smaller and much cheaper machines
> that work properly.
> If there's another class-action suit brewing out there, I would
> happily add my name to the list!
>
> Steven Karafyllakis
>
> -- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
> <monroekd@...> wrote:
>>
>> I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and
> I
>> am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the
> intrinsic
>> Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
>> Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
>> Epson 2200 printer.

Re rear sheet feed skew on the 3800: once you put the paper in, you have to
maintain a gentle downwards pressure on the paper until the paper is all the
way in and the printer says "ready."

 

Since I learned to do that I have had no skews at all.

 

  - susan

 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

About the paper feed problem, have you tried using a support card? I find that mandatory for my 2100.

Richard

--
http://smallfield.vze.com 

   "Nothing is wrong with California that a rise in the ocean level 
   wouldn't cure. "
   --Ross MacDonald (1915-1983)

I just gave up on Epson Enhanced Matte when I moved up to the
Ultrachrome K3 printers. For me that ink/paper combo just didn't work
very well. I never tried ImagePrint on the K3 printers, but even with
my own custom profile of EEM on K3 it still just didn't work very well.

I bought ImagePrint for the 2200 and returned it. I just couldn't
produce a superior print with that system than I could with my 2200
and custom profiles. I don't agree at all that the 3800 produces
inferior prints to the 2200 in any way other than EEM. And I seriously
doubt you'll get any response of consequence from Epson regarding this
letter. Most people find the Epson supplied profiles for this printer
to be pretty good. There are also a large number of people who have
been quite successful in making B/W prints with the ABW driver.

If you want better B/W I think you should be looking at 3rd party B/W
specific inks ala Piezography or MIS. Which aren't really available
for the 3800 yet, but may be in a few months.

---
Derek

blogging at: http://derekealy.com/WordPress

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
<monroekd@...> wrote:
>
> I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and I
> am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the intrinsic
> Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
> Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
> Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to the
> intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought that
> after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why ImagePrint
> is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
> profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys are
> apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the Bill
> Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in most
> cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color and
> black and white print quality than with the standard profiles already
> shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
> difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to create
> the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and papers.
> You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party papers, if
> you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If one
> spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour the
> internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best possible
> prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 3800, and
> thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color
profiles.

> I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
> Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
> papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. If the
> Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced which I
> thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there separate
> profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? The
> profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for the
> Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper combo,
> but both could be improved. 
> The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium presentation
> matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow areas. 
> Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color profiles for
> the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
> Thanks
> Kevin Monroe
>

I have been making superb BW prints with the 3800 since I received it.
I do not have feed problems even with large paper. The only thing I
had to pay attention to was the gap width, which needed to be wider to
avoid head strikes.  The canned profiles work well for me. I have used
variety of papers,
both Espon and Hanemuhle.
While I feel a similar sense of outrage when a technical product I
purchase doesn't work the way I think it should, market forces usually
set these problems straight. Your experience with the 3800 is
not representative i.e, you imply there is a defect in the design of
the printer. There would be far more complaints such as yours on this
and other lists if that were the case. To the responder that sounded
worried about their recent purchase, you can take heart: the 3800 is
fantastic.  Another responder suggests a class action suit.  To believe 
that we must
sue when things don't turn out the way we want
has mostly had the effect of enriching certain lawyers, and usually not
effectively protecting the rights of consumers.
Alan Kushnir
Woodside Ca

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
<monroekd@...> wrote:
>
> I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and I
> am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the intrinsic
> Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
> Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
> Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to the
> intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought that
> after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why ImagePrint
> is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
> profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys are
> apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the Bill
> Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in most
> cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color and
> black and white print quality than with the standard profiles already
> shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
> difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to create
> the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and papers.
> You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party papers, if
> you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If one
> spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour the
> internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best possible
> prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 3800, and
> thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color
profiles.

> I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
> Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
> papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. If the
> Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced which I
> thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there separate
> profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? The
> profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for the
> Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper combo,
> but both could be improved.
> The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium presentation
> matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow areas.
> Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color profiles for
> the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
> Thanks
> Kevin Monroe
>


>

I completely agree that the profiles with Image print are superior to 
Epson profiles, and thats really what you are paying for.  Also agree 
that the enhanced matte provides pretty good results but certainly 
not great.  I do think the k3 ink set is superior in terms of 
bronzing and gloss differntial but thats another story...

It sounds like your not using ABW -- perhaps because of the monitor 
profiling issue.  But, as you know there are ways around that using 
either Eric Chans profiles or just make yourself a monitor curve.  I 
find that using abw vs rgb I get a bit deeper blacks, however, I have 
not measured it and need to do so.  There's other matte paers I use 
like VFA, hpr 308, enrada bw, & harman matte that i prefer to eem. 
But I think where the k3 inks w/ abw really excel at is with the new 
glossy papers.  I've had some really positive feedback from 
expereinced darkroom printers using the new Harman & Ilford fiber 
gloss's...  Actully, the first time I've ever been (mostly)  
satisfied with a digital B&W print...  Good luck...
SteveB    

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm" 
<monroekd@...> wrote:
>
> I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and I
> am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the 
intrinsic
> Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
> Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
> Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to the
> intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought that
> after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why 
ImagePrint
> is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
> profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys are
> apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the Bill
> Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in most
> cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color and
> black and white print quality than with the standard profiles 
already
> shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
> difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to 
create
> the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and papers.
> You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party papers, 
if
> you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If one
> spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour the
> internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best 
possible
> prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 3800, 
and
> thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color 
profiles.
> I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
> Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
> papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. If 
the
> Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced which I
> thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there separate
> profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? The
> profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for the
> Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper combo,
> but both could be improved. 
> The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium presentation
> matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow 
areas. 
> Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color profiles 
for

> the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
> Thanks
> Kevin Monroe
>

> If you want better B/W I think you should be looking at 3rd party 
B/W
> specific inks ala Piezography or MIS. Which aren't really available
> for the 3800 yet, but may be in a few months.

If someones comes up with an all carbon inkset and profiles for the 
3800 supporting both glossy and b&W, and is superior to k3 with ABW, 
I'd buy it in a heartbeat!!  And others would too...  Meanwhile, the 
ABW K3 is pretty awesome esepcailly for gloss pares ... 
SteveB


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dealy663" 
<dealy663@...> wrote:
>
> I just gave up on Epson Enhanced Matte when I moved up to the
> Ultrachrome K3 printers. For me that ink/paper combo just didn't 
work
> very well. I never tried ImagePrint on the K3 printers, but even 
with
> my own custom profile of EEM on K3 it still just didn't work very 
well.
> 
> I bought ImagePrint for the 2200 and returned it. I just couldn't
> produce a superior print with that system than I could with my 2200
> and custom profiles. I don't agree at all that the 3800 produces
> inferior prints to the 2200 in any way other than EEM. And I 
seriously
> doubt you'll get any response of consequence from Epson regarding 
this
> letter. Most people find the Epson supplied profiles for this 
printer
> to be pretty good. There are also a large number of people who have
> been quite successful in making B/W prints with the ABW driver.
> 
> If you want better B/W I think you should be looking at 3rd party 
B/W
> specific inks ala Piezography or MIS. Which aren't really available
> for the 3800 yet, but may be in a few months.
> 
> ---
> Derek
> 
> blogging at: http://derekealy.com/WordPress
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> <monroekd@> wrote:
> >
> > I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, 
and I
> > am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the 
intrinsic
> > Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by 
Eric
> > Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with 
my
> > Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to the
> > intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought that
> > after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why 
ImagePrint
> > is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
> > profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys 
are
> > apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the 
Bill
> > Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in 
most
> > cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color 
and
> > black and white print quality than with the standard profiles 
already
> > shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
> > difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to 
create
> > the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and 
papers.
> > You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party 
papers, if
> > you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If one
> > spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour 
the
> > internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best 
possible
> > prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 3800, 
and
> > thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color
> profiles.
> > I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
> > Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
> > papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. 
If the
> > Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced which I
> > thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there 
separate
> > profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? The
> > profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for the
> > Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper 
combo,
> > but both could be improved. 
> > The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium 
presentation
> > matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow 
areas. 
> > Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color 
profiles for

> > the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
> > Thanks
> > Kevin Monroe
> >
>

Oops, I meant "both glossy and matte papers"... 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "steveabrink" 
<steveabrink@...> wrote:
>
> > If you want better B/W I think you should be looking at 3rd party 
> B/W
> > specific inks ala Piezography or MIS. Which aren't really 
available
> > for the 3800 yet, but may be in a few months.
> 
> If someones comes up with an all carbon inkset and profiles for the 
> 3800 supporting both glossy and b&W, and is superior to k3 with 
ABW, 
> I'd buy it in a heartbeat!!  And others would too...  Meanwhile, 
the 
> ABW K3 is pretty awesome esepcailly for gloss pares ... 
> SteveB
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dealy663" 
> <dealy663@> wrote:
> >
> > I just gave up on Epson Enhanced Matte when I moved up to the
> > Ultrachrome K3 printers. For me that ink/paper combo just didn't 
> work
> > very well. I never tried ImagePrint on the K3 printers, but even 
> with
> > my own custom profile of EEM on K3 it still just didn't work very 
> well.
> > 
> > I bought ImagePrint for the 2200 and returned it. I just couldn't
> > produce a superior print with that system than I could with my 
2200
> > and custom profiles. I don't agree at all that the 3800 produces
> > inferior prints to the 2200 in any way other than EEM. And I 
> seriously
> > doubt you'll get any response of consequence from Epson regarding 
> this
> > letter. Most people find the Epson supplied profiles for this 
> printer
> > to be pretty good. There are also a large number of people who 
have
> > been quite successful in making B/W prints with the ABW driver.
> > 
> > If you want better B/W I think you should be looking at 3rd party 
> B/W
> > specific inks ala Piezography or MIS. Which aren't really 
available
> > for the 3800 yet, but may be in a few months.
> > 
> > ---
> > Derek
> > 
> > blogging at: http://derekealy.com/WordPress
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "digikdm"
> > <monroekd@> wrote:
> > >
> > > I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, 
> and I
> > > am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the 
> intrinsic
> > > Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by 
> Eric
> > > Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint 
with 
> my
> > > Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to 
the
> > > intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought 
that
> > > after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why 
> ImagePrint
> > > is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
> > > profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys 
> are
> > > apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the 
> Bill
> > > Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in 
> most
> > > cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color 
> and
> > > black and white print quality than with the standard profiles 
> already
> > > shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
> > > difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to 
> create
> > > the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and 
> papers.
> > > You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party 
> papers, if
> > > you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If 
one
> > > spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour 
> the
> > > internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best 
> possible
> > > prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 
3800, 
> and
> > > thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color
> > profiles.
> > > I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
> > > Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
> > > papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. 
> If the
> > > Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced 
which I
> > > thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there 
> separate
> > > profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? 
The
> > > profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for 
the

> > > Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper 
> combo,
> > > but both could be improved. 
> > > The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium 
> presentation
> > > matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow 
> areas. 
> > > Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color 
> profiles for
> > > the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
> > > Thanks
> > > Kevin Monroe
> > >
> >
>

Alan,

I couldn¹t agree with you more.   I am quite impressed and pleased with the
performance of my 3800 both for b/w and color.   I still have my 2200 and
1270....I have been toying with the idea of converting the 2200 for one of
the dedicated b/w ink systems but not sure that¹s necessary with what I am
seeing from the 3800 in ABW.

Also fully support the idea of keeping the attorney¹s away.

Paul Grant
Menlo Park, CA


On 5/11/08 4:40 PM, "alankushnir" <akushnir@...> wrote:

>  
>  
> 
> I have been making superb BW prints with the 3800 since I received it.
> I do not have feed problems even with large paper. The only thing I
> had to pay attention to was the gap width, which needed to be wider to
> avoid head strikes.  The canned profiles work well for me. I have used
> variety of papers,
> both Espon and Hanemuhle.
> While I feel a similar sense of outrage when a technical product I
> purchase doesn't work the way I think it should, market forces usually
> set these problems straight. Your experience with the 3800 is
> not representative i.e, you imply there is a defect in the design of
> the printer. There would be far more complaints such as yours on this
> and other lists if that were the case. To the responder that sounded
> worried about their recent purchase, you can take heart: the 3800 is
> fantastic.  Another responder suggests a class action suit.  To believe
> that we must
> sue when things don't turn out the way we want
> has mostly had the effect of enriching certain lawyers, and usually not
> effectively protecting the rights of consumers.
> Alan Kushnir
> Woodside Ca
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "digikdm"
> <monroekd@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I have been printing with my new Epson 3800 for about 1 month, and I
>> > am a bit dismayed that the B&W prints I'm getting using the intrinsic
>> > Epson driver (with or without third party profiles provided by Eric
>> > Chan) are inferior to the B&W prints I get using ImagePrint with my
>> > Epson 2200 printer. Admittedly, the prints are far superior to the
>> > intrinsic Epson driver for the 2200, but I would have thought that
>> > after 3-4 years of R&D, you guys would have figured out why ImagePrint
>> > is so superior to your driver. Also I have found that the color
>> > profiles provided in the driver vary in their quality. You guys are
>> > apparently aware of this situation, since you are offering the Bill
>> > Atkinson 7600/9600 profiles on your website and state that "in most
>> > cases, these custom ICC profiles will provide much better color and
>> > black and white print quality than with the standard profiles already
>> > shipping with every printer". I don't understand why it is so
>> > difficult for a company that is totally devoted to printing to create
>> > the best possible canned profiles for their own printers and papers.
>> > You would likely prevent numerous defectors to third party papers, if
>> > you created the best possible profiles for your own papers. If one
>> > spends >$1000 for a printer, they should not then have to scour the
>> > internet for profiles or third party drivers to get the best possible
>> > prints. The Bill Atkinson profiles do not work well for the 3800, and
>> > thus the 3800 users are left out in the cold for accurate color
> profiles.
>> > I have also found it confusing that you have discontinued Epson
>> > Enhanced matte and Archival Matte
>> > papers and yet these profiles are still in the driver software. If the
>> > Ultrapremium presentation matte is the same as Ep Enhanced which I
>> > thought was the same as Archival matte, then why are there separate
>> > profiles in the driver for Enhanced matte and Archival matte? The
>> > profile/paper combo for premium luster is superior to that for the
>> > Enhanced matte profile/ultrapremium presentation matte paper combo,
>> > but both could be improved.
>> > The enhanced matte profile in concert with Ultrapremium presentation
>> > matte paper is particularly poor with muddy/blocked-up shadow areas.
>> > Perhaps you should pay Bill Atkinson to create some color profiles for
>> > the 3800 or better yet, Epson should purchase Colorbyte.
>> > Thanks
>> > Kevin Monroe
>> >
> 
>> >
> 
>  
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "alankushnir"  
Alan;

From what I can see of the 3800 feed mechanism; Epson simply scaled up 
the design of the smaller machines. Some things scale up well, others 
do not, or at least only scale well to a certain point. I honestly feel 
the 3800 is 'pushing it' too far, and yes, I do think it is at least a 
design weakness if not an outright flaw. And my experience is not 
unique, there were a number of complaints on this list when the first 
units started arriving back at the beginning of 2007. And yes, there 
are kludges and work-arounds, I'm intimately familiar with all of 
them,but I feel I shouldn't have to resort to that. C'mon, Alan-why 
should a $95.00 R2600 work flawlessly, while the $1200.00 3800. needs 
babying?

Steven Karafyllakis

>Your experience with the 3800 is
> not representative i.e, you imply there is a defect in the design of
> the printer. There would be far more complaints such as yours on this
> and other lists if that were the case.

>There are also a large number of people who have
>been quite successful in making B/W prints with the ABW driver.

I am quite pleased with ABW mode and the 3800. I think prints on the new
Harmon AI gloss are terrific. Previously I used Innova F-type and was also
very happy.

Dave.

-- 
2008 PAW Gallery: www.david-keenan.com/paw
Web Site: www.david-keenan.com


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I completely agree. The Harman AI w/ ABW exhibits zero gloss 
differential and great dmax.  Even my darkroom buddies are impressed! 


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "David Keenan" 
<ausdlk@...> wrote:
>
> >There are also a large number of people who have
> >been quite successful in making B/W prints with the ABW driver.
> 
> I am quite pleased with ABW mode and the 3800. I think prints on 
the new
> Harmon AI gloss are terrific. Previously I used Innova F-type and 
was also

> very happy.
> 
> Dave.
> 
> -- 
> 2008 PAW Gallery: www.david-keenan.com/paw
> Web Site: www.david-keenan.com
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>