Digital BW, The Print

Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not print 
frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots and 
cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at least 
tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an Epson 
1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  

Steve

from what I've seen, Imageprint and a 2200 will give excellent color 
and b&w from epson inks, but combined it will cost you over $1000 and 
your per print cost is high as well.

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Stephen Kobrin" 
<skobrin@h...> wrote:
> Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
> that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not 
print 
> frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots 
and 
> cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at 
least 
> tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
> if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an 
Epson 

> 1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
> minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
> 2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
> the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
> color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
> would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  
> 
> Steve

I have seen excellent B&W prints from a 2200 using Epson inks and paper and the std 
driver.

Must print RGB (not gray scale) and the paper makes a heck of a diff.  Ep Velvet was 
beautiful and some of the fine art mattes were a long way from a good black---really 
surprised me.  Must be the Epson coating.

Bill

You are correct.
 
Tom Baker

Stephen Kobrin <skobrin@...> wrote:
Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not print 
frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots and 
cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at least 
tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an Epson 
1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  

Steve




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

...and metamerism?  

mark

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Bill" 
<gebilwil@n...> wrote:
> I have seen excellent B&W prints from a 2200 using Epson inks and 
paper and the std 
> driver.
> 
> Must print RGB (not gray scale) and the paper makes a heck of a 
diff.  Ep Velvet was 
> beautiful and some of the fine art mattes were a long way from a 
good black---really 

> surprised me.  Must be the Epson coating.
> 
> Bill

Hi Steve,

I wouldn't call myself a "regular" printer, either, but over the years it seems that I've had less clogging problems with Epson inks. I have used the original Piezo inks (bad clogs!), my own custom blend consisting of MIS inks and Generations color inks, the original MIS VM inks, and, most recently, the MIS UT inks. Oh, I forgot, somewhere in there I played around with the newer PiezoTone inks, too.

About 2 weeks ago, I was kind of where I think you are...I had an Epson 2200 that I used for color printing and an Epson 1160 loaded with UT inks. After spending nearly 3 hours and a new set of Epson cartridges on my umpteenth tremendous head clog, I informed my wife that I didn't care how much ImagePrint cost I was buying it. Well...I do care about the cost, but you get the point! ;>)

Color printing "out of the box" is fantastic...I like IP's rendering of blues (for example, sky) much better than the Epson driver and profiles, shadow areas appear more "open", and, in general, the color of the prints look more like what I remember in the original scene. For instance, if you've ever photographed the orange sand dunes in Monument Valley you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm still playing with grayscale...I didn't realize until yesterday that a custom dot gain curve or curves adjustment layer is required in PS in order for a B&W print to match what's seen on the screen in PS. I had done this very thing several years ago with Piezo, but just forgot about it.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth......

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
> Date: 2003/10/26 Sun PM 09:34:23 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> 
> Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
> that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not print 
> frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots and 
> cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at least 
> tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
> if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an Epson 
> 1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
> minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
> 2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
> the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
> color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
> would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
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> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
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> 
> 
>

Thanks Alan,

I just called MIS and was told that with pigment-based inks you have 
to print every day to avoid clogs.  I am not sure that I want to get 
into that, even if it means just doing a nozzle check.  However, I 
was also told that the 2200 Epson inks are pigment rather than dye 
based and thus the 2200 is more prone to clogs than the dye based 
printers such as the 1280.

Have you had clogging problems with the 2200?  For those of us who do 
limited amounts of printing and use prefilled carts, I am not sure 
the per-print costs will be that much higher, without even taking 
into account the ink wasted in cleaning cycles and the Epson carts 
required as a "last resort."  On the other hand, $1000 plus is a lot 
to lay out.

Steve
--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
<Alan.Huntley@c...> wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I wouldn't call myself a "regular" printer, either, but over the 
years it seems that I've had less clogging problems with Epson inks. 
I have used the original Piezo inks (bad clogs!), my own custom blend 
consisting of MIS inks and Generations color inks, the original MIS 
VM inks, and, most recently, the MIS UT inks. Oh, I forgot, somewhere 
in there I played around with the newer PiezoTone inks, too.
> 
> About 2 weeks ago, I was kind of where I think you are...I had an 
Epson 2200 that I used for color printing and an Epson 1160 loaded 
with UT inks. After spending nearly 3 hours and a new set of Epson 
cartridges on my umpteenth tremendous head clog, I informed my wife 
that I didn't care how much ImagePrint cost I was buying it. Well...I 
do care about the cost, but you get the point! ;>)
> 
> Color printing "out of the box" is fantastic...I like IP's 
rendering of blues (for example, sky) much better than the Epson 
driver and profiles, shadow areas appear more "open", and, in 
general, the color of the prints look more like what I remember in 
the original scene. For instance, if you've ever photographed the 
orange sand dunes in Monument Valley you'll know exactly what I'm 
talking about. I'm still playing with grayscale...I didn't realize 
until yesterday that a custom dot gain curve or curves adjustment 
layer is required in PS in order for a B&W print to match what's seen 
on the screen in PS. I had done this very thing several years ago 
with Piezo, but just forgot about it.
> 
> Anyway, my 2 cents worth......
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
> > 
> > From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@h...>
> > Date: 2003/10/26 Sun PM 09:34:23 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> > 
> > Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a 
RIP) 
> > that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not 
print 
> > frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots 
and 
> > cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at 
least 
> > tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not 
and 
> > if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an 
Epson 
> > 1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
> > minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using 
a 
> > 2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to 
convert 
> > the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the 
little 
> > color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure 
that 
> > would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, 
Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page 
is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject 
header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the 
various resources on the homepage. 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to 
http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 

> > 
> > 
> >

With IP and my 9600 I don't use a 'custom dot gain' to get the b&w to look right.  Is you monitor calibrated correctly?  Or, is this unique to the 2200 and IP?
 
 
Tom Baker

Alan.Huntley@... wrote:
Hi Steve,

I wouldn't call myself a "regular" printer, either, but over the years it seems that I've had less clogging problems with Epson inks. I have used the original Piezo inks (bad clogs!), my own custom blend consisting of MIS inks and Generations color inks, the original MIS VM inks, and, most recently, the MIS UT inks. Oh, I forgot, somewhere in there I played around with the newer PiezoTone inks, too.

About 2 weeks ago, I was kind of where I think you are...I had an Epson 2200 that I used for color printing and an Epson 1160 loaded with UT inks. After spending nearly 3 hours and a new set of Epson cartridges on my umpteenth tremendous head clog, I informed my wife that I didn't care how much ImagePrint cost I was buying it. Well...I do care about the cost, but you get the point! ;>)

Color printing "out of the box" is fantastic...I like IP's rendering of blues (for example, sky) much better than the Epson driver and profiles, shadow areas appear more "open", and, in general, the color of the prints look more like what I remember in the original scene. For instance, if you've ever photographed the orange sand dunes in Monument Valley you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm still playing with grayscale...I didn't realize until yesterday that a custom dot gain curve or curves adjustment layer is required in PS in order for a B&W print to match what's seen on the screen in PS. I had done this very thing several years ago with Piezo, but just forgot about it.

Anyway, my 2 cents worth......

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
> Date: 2003/10/26 Sun PM 09:34:23 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> 
> Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
> that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not print 
> frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots and 
> cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at least 
> tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
> if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an Epson 
> 1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
> minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
> 2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
> the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
> color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
> would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - Include your full name with your message.
> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
> 


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi Tom,

My monitor was just calibrated, again, yesterday using a ColorVision Spyder and software. After verifying that my newly created ICM profile is being used by Windoze, I assume it's calibrated correctly.

I really don't know what issues are at work here...maybe it was that geomagnetic storm that hit us! <G> It seems that Mac users don't see the mismatch problem that I've noticed...some Windoze users do, others don't. Go figure. Ron Harris, for instance, simply runs Gray Gamma 2.2 in PS and IP; others use dot gain curves or curves adjustment layers. Whatever works is what I'll use, of course.

Hopefully, I'll get this issue behind me tonight.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
> Date: 2003/10/27 Mon PM 03:25:11 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> 
> With IP and my 9600 I don't use a 'custom dot gain' to get the b&w to look right.  Is you monitor calibrated correctly?  Or, is this unique to the 2200 and IP?
>  
>  
> Tom Baker
> 
> Alan.Huntley@... wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I wouldn't call myself a "regular" printer, either, but over the years it seems that I've had less clogging problems with Epson inks. I have used the original Piezo inks (bad clogs!), my own custom blend consisting of MIS inks and Generations color inks, the original MIS VM inks, and, most recently, the MIS UT inks. Oh, I forgot, somewhere in there I played around with the newer PiezoTone inks, too.
> 
> About 2 weeks ago, I was kind of where I think you are...I had an Epson 2200 that I used for color printing and an Epson 1160 loaded with UT inks. After spending nearly 3 hours and a new set of Epson cartridges on my umpteenth tremendous head clog, I informed my wife that I didn't care how much ImagePrint cost I was buying it. Well...I do care about the cost, but you get the point! ;>)
> 
> Color printing "out of the box" is fantastic...I like IP's rendering of blues (for example, sky) much better than the Epson driver and profiles, shadow areas appear more "open", and, in general, the color of the prints look more like what I remember in the original scene. For instance, if you've ever photographed the orange sand dunes in Monument Valley you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm still playing with grayscale...I didn't realize until yesterday that a custom dot gain curve or curves adjustment layer is required in PS in order for a B&W print to match what's seen on the screen in PS. I had done this very thing several years ago with Piezo, but just forgot about it.
> 
> Anyway, my 2 cents worth......
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
> > 
> > From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
> > Date: 2003/10/26 Sun PM 09:34:23 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> > 
> > Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
> > that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not print 
> > frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots and 
> > cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at least 
> > tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
> > if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an Epson 
> > 1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
> > minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
> > 2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
> > the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
> > color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
> > would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> > 
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same page.
> > 
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - Include your full name with your message.
> > - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> > - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> > - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> > - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> > 
> > 
> >  
> > 
> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> 
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> - Include the address of your website, if you have one.
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
> - As the topic of a thread changes remember to change the subject header.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames
> - Complete your Yahoo profile.
> - Before posting a question, search the message archives and the various resources on the homepage. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ 
> 
> 
>

Alan  -
 
I'm on Win.  I use Gray Gamma 2.2 or, the gray profile that comes from my Nikon 8000 for everything.  I can't really tell the difference in the two.  But, I'm consistent in my use of ICC profiles.  Seems to work just fine.  And I don't use anything to calibrate my moitor except the PS gamma tool and my eye.  I think there's some luck involved here somewhere, too.

 

Tom Baker


Alan.Huntley@... wrote:
Hi Tom,

My monitor was just calibrated, again, yesterday using a ColorVision Spyder and software. After verifying that my newly created ICM profile is being used by Windoze, I assume it's calibrated correctly.

I really don't know what issues are at work here...maybe it was that geomagnetic storm that hit us! <G> It seems that Mac users don't see the mismatch problem that I've noticed...some Windoze users do, others don't. Go figure. Ron Harris, for instance, simply runs Gray Gamma 2.2 in PS and IP; others use dot gain curves or curves adjustment layers. Whatever works is what I'll use, of course.

Hopefully, I'll get this issue behind me tonight.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
> Date: 2003/10/27 Mon PM 03:25:11 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> 
> With IP and my 9600 I don't use a 'custom dot gain' to get the b&w to look right.  Is you monitor calibrated correctly?  Or, is this unique to the 2200 and IP?
>  
>  
> Tom Baker
> 
> Alan.Huntley@... wrote:
> Hi Steve,
> 
> I wouldn't call myself a "regular" printer, either, but over the years it seems that I've had less clogging problems with Epson inks. I have used the original Piezo inks (bad clogs!), my own custom blend consisting of MIS inks and Generations color inks, the original MIS VM inks, and, most recently, the MIS UT inks. Oh, I forgot, somewhere in there I played around with the newer PiezoTone inks, too.
> 
> About 2 weeks ago, I was kind of where I think you are...I had an Epson 2200 that I used for color printing and an Epson 1160 loaded with UT inks. After spending nearly 3 hours and a new set of Epson cartridges on my umpteenth tremendous head clog, I informed my wife that I didn't care how much ImagePrint cost I was buying it. Well...I do care about the cost, but you get the point! ;>)
> 
> Color printing "out of the box" is fantastic...I like IP's rendering of blues (for example, sky) much better than the Epson driver and profiles, shadow areas appear more "open", and, in general, the color of the prints look more like what I remember in the original scene. For instance, if you've ever photographed the orange sand dunes in Monument Valley you'll know exactly what I'm talking about. I'm still playing with grayscale...I didn't realize until yesterday that a custom dot gain curve or curves adjustment layer is required in PS in order for a B&W print to match what's seen on the screen in PS. I had done this very thing several years ago with Piezo, but just forgot about it.
> 
> Anyway, my 2 cents worth......
> 
> Alan Huntley
> 
> > 
> > From: "Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@...>
> > Date: 2003/10/26 Sun PM 09:34:23 EST
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> > 
> > Am I correct that with a 2200 and some additional software (a RIP) 
> > that I can get reasonable B&W prints with Epson inks?  I do not print 
> > frequently (3 or 4 prints a week on average) and the clogs, clots and 
> > cleaning cycles are driving me nuts.  I do this for fun and, at least 
> > tonight, it is not.  I am very pleased with what I am doing not and 
> > if I could get prints that are equal to what I get now with an Epson 
> > 1200 and MIS VM inks without the problems, I would switch in a 
> > minute.  I have a 1280 I use for color and selling that and using a 
> > 2200 for both seems attractive. The other alternative is to convert 
> > the 1280 to B&W ultrachromes and buy a small printer for the little 
> > color I do -- mostly family pictures.  However, I am not sure that 
> > would solve the clog problem given that I print infrequently.  
> > 
> > Steve
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, Bookmarks, Polls and other resources as they are often being updated. The page is at:
> > 
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

For: Tom Baker

> With IP and my 9600 I don't use a 'custom dot gain' to get the b&w to 
> look right.  Is you monitor calibrated correctly?  Or, is this unique 
> to the 2200 and IP?

No, it's common to all the printers. Think of it: your view of the file 
in Photoshop is going to be the same for all papers? That is not 
possible since the normal Photoshop view is optimized for the 
characteristics of your monitor white and black and, since the IP 
grayscale profiles cannot be used for the Photoshop Proof Colors 
facility, you must make some other adjustment to make the Photoshop 
view match the print. Either your monitor is not calibrated correctly 
and your Photoshop view happens to match the paper by chance or you're 
not very sensitive to viewing tonalities (no insult intended). Have a 
look at the Notes for IP Setup for Beginners on 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ImagePrint/files/>.

--Mitch/Bangkok

Or, I'm making the adjustments in my head.  More than likely the b&w setup in PS 'just happens' to match the paper.  I use a few different papers.  But, the ones I like for b&w all have similar optical characteristics.  So, that might be it.  I see all of the gray scale values in any target that I can find. so I know my monitor calibration is not an issue.
 
But, the results are hanging on the wall in the gallery.  There I can compare the finished product side-by-side with other photography.  The color and b&w are both dead on, and I don't mess with the dot gain issue.  Also, I don't soft proof in PS.  
 
I know what you're saying, and it's logical.  But, it is extremely rare that what comes off of the printer with IP is not what I expect to see.  And, when it does happen, I can always trace it back to a mistake in my balancing of the tonal values in PS.  
 
Tom Baker
Mitch Alland <malland@...> wrote:
For: Tom Baker

> With IP and my 9600 I don't use a 'custom dot gain' to get the b&w to 
> look right.  Is you monitor calibrated correctly?  Or, is this unique 
> to the 2200 and IP?

No, it's common to all the printers. Think of it: your view of the file 
in Photoshop is going to be the same for all papers? That is not 
possible since the normal Photoshop view is optimized for the 
characteristics of your monitor white and black and, since the IP 
grayscale profiles cannot be used for the Photoshop Proof Colors 
facility, you must make some other adjustment to make the Photoshop 
view match the print. Either your monitor is not calibrated correctly 
and your Photoshop view happens to match the paper by chance or you're 
not very sensitive to viewing tonalities (no insult intended). Have a 
look at the Notes for IP Setup for Beginners on 
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ImagePrint/files/>.

--Mitch/Bangkok


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

Hmm, I must be missing the luck part! ;>) Anyway, tonight I played around
with a Custom Dot Gain curve per the instructions posted in the Files
section of the ImagePrint group. I believe Mitch Alland wrote this document.
Thank you, Mitch. Being an alumni of the old Piezography school of B&W
digital printing, I am fairly comfortable with Gains of the Dot, etc. Only
took a couple of prints and now my printed image looks, to my eye (and my
wife's) exactly like what I see in PS. I'm a happy camper. Will let the
print dry overnight and check it again tomorrow just to make sure it doesn't
"dry down" too bad.

Now, my last issue is 16-bit grayscale. Doesn't seem to work for me, but,
again, others report no problems with 16-bit files...naturally! :>(

Alan Huntley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Baker" <tbaker1328@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question


> Alan  -
>
> I'm on Win.  I use Gray Gamma 2.2 or, the gray profile that comes from my
Nikon 8000 for everything.  I can't really tell the difference in the two.
But, I'm consistent in my use of ICC profiles.  Seems to work just fine.
And I don't use anything to calibrate my moitor except the PS gamma tool and
my eye.  I think there's some luck involved here somewhere, too.

I'm not sure which 16 bit problem you're refering to.  But, I've had some problems with 16 bit images presented to Imageprint as PSD files.  It seems to be related to something that happens when flatten a file in PS.  If I save the same file as a TIF file, and print it with IP, I don't see the problem.  Actually, the problem comes long before the print.  In the IP preview the image is almost obliterated.  I haven't contacted Colorbyte about this because I just print the TIF file.  I can't see any difference in printing the TIF file vs. the PSD file.  I actually curious about this.  Maybe an email to IP.  This only happens on grayscale files, not color (yet).
 
I don't know if this is related to you issue or not.  
 
As for the dot gain issue, are you saying that you change the working space gray profile in PS depending on the image?  I actually did try Dot gain working space profiles at one time, but, I am happier with the Gray Gamma 2.2 working space profile.  It is just matching up very well with all of the papers I use.  My monitor didn't just 'magicly' profile itself.  I tweaked it for about three weeks to get what I wanted.  Again, just using the eyeball and basic tools.  It would have been a lot faster had I had a Spyder, or something like that.  But, in the end, no better.  THere's actually a lot more to this because I was trying to get the monitor 'right' with the Epson drivers on the 9600 (after digesting two books on color management).  Even though all of the indications were that my monitor was right, the prints still didn't match.  I installed IP, and the first print matched perfectly.  I've been happy ever since.  And, I've actually had to replace my monitor, under warranty, without
 any problems because I had the profiles already.
 
Tom Baker
 

"A. Huntley" <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
Tom,

Hmm, I must be missing the luck part! ;>) Anyway, tonight I played around
with a Custom Dot Gain curve per the instructions posted in the Files
section of the ImagePrint group. I believe Mitch Alland wrote this document.
Thank you, Mitch. Being an alumni of the old Piezography school of B&W
digital printing, I am fairly comfortable with Gains of the Dot, etc. Only
took a couple of prints and now my printed image looks, to my eye (and my
wife's) exactly like what I see in PS. I'm a happy camper. Will let the
print dry overnight and check it again tomorrow just to make sure it doesn't
"dry down" too bad.

Now, my last issue is 16-bit grayscale. Doesn't seem to work for me, but,
again, others report no problems with 16-bit files...naturally! :>(

Alan Huntley

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Tom Baker" <tbaker1328@...>
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 3:00 PM
Subject: Re: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question


> Alan  -
>
> I'm on Win.  I use Gray Gamma 2.2 or, the gray profile that comes from my
Nikon 8000 for everything.  I can't really tell the difference in the two.
But, I'm consistent in my use of ICC profiles.  Seems to work just fine.
And I don't use anything to calibrate my moitor except the PS gamma tool and
my eye.  I think there's some luck involved here somewhere, too.


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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Tom,

> I'm not sure which 16 bit problem you're refering to.  But, I've had some
problems with 16 bit images presented to >Imageprint as PSD files.  It seems
to be related to something that happens when flatten a file in PS.  If I
save the >same file as a TIF file, and print it with IP, I don't see the
problem.  Actually, the problem comes long before the >print.  In the IP
preview the image is almost obliterated.  I haven't contacted Colorbyte
about this because I just print >the TIF file.  I can't see any difference
in printing the TIF file vs. the PSD file.  I actually curious about this.
Maybe >an email to IP.  This only happens on grayscale files, not color
(yet).

The 16-bit problem I have comes long before the print, too. When I drop a
single layer (background only) 16-bit grayscale file onto the IP layout
window it is, as you say, completely obliterated; basically, it looks like a
Zone V gray version of my image file with some black dots running through
it. I've never tried to actually print it. I thought of trying it as TIF,
but haven't yet. I called Lexjet on this issue just this morning...they're
supposed to get back to me.

> As for the dot gain issue, are you saying that you change the working
space gray profile in PS depending on the >image?  I actually did try Dot
gain working space profiles at one time, but, I am happier with the Gray
Gamma 2.2 >working space profile.  It is just matching up very well with all
of the papers I use.  My monitor didn't just 'magicly' >profile itself.

In Color Settings, Gray working space I now have a custom dot gain curve
specifically for PhotoRag. The dot gain curves are actually paper specific
and not image specific. Once you've gone through the process of setting up a
custom dot gain it's used for all images printed on a particular paper. I
save the image untagged. Once it's dropped onto the IP layout window it's
using IP's color management which I have set to Gray Gamma 2.2. The
resulting print will not match the view in IP, but matches the PS view
exactly. If GG 2.2 is working for you, great. But, apparently some of us
have to go the dot gain or adjustment layer route. I felt more comfortable
with a custom dot gain having used the same technique during my Piezo days.
I like the fact that I don't have to think about "tweaking" the image in
order to match some memory of how my prints actually print, or having to
remember to turn on/off an adjustment layer and delete it before flattening.
Using a custom dot gain allows me to do my editing in PS as I would for any
image with the knowledge that what I see on the screen is what will be on
the paper.

BTW, I use a ColorVision Spyder and software to calibrate my monitor. I've
never used Adobe Gamma or any other visual technique to calibrate...my eyes
ain't that good anymore!

Alan Huntley

Alan  -
 
Calibrating my monitor by sight didn't help my eyes either.
 
Try the TIF.  I'd bet your problem will go away.  The image you describe is exactly what I see.  The actual print is of even less use.  BTW, on the images you are having this problem, did you flatten them at some point in you process?  That seemed to be a common point with the problems I had.  Also, are you using IP 5.5 or 5.6.  I am almost sure this started with 5.6, but I'm not 100% certain.
 
Tom Baker

"A. Huntley" <Alan.Huntley@...> wrote:
Tom,

> I'm not sure which 16 bit problem you're refering to.  But, I've had some
problems with 16 bit images presented to >Imageprint as PSD files.  It seems
to be related to something that happens when flatten a file in PS.  If I
save the >same file as a TIF file, and print it with IP, I don't see the
problem.  Actually, the problem comes long before the >print.  In the IP
preview the image is almost obliterated.  I haven't contacted Colorbyte
about this because I just print >the TIF file.  I can't see any difference
in printing the TIF file vs. the PSD file.  I actually curious about this.
Maybe >an email to IP.  This only happens on grayscale files, not color
(yet).

The 16-bit problem I have comes long before the print, too. When I drop a
single layer (background only) 16-bit grayscale file onto the IP layout
window it is, as you say, completely obliterated; basically, it looks like a
Zone V gray version of my image file with some black dots running through
it. I've never tried to actually print it. I thought of trying it as TIF,
but haven't yet. I called Lexjet on this issue just this morning...they're
supposed to get back to me.

> As for the dot gain issue, are you saying that you change the working
space gray profile in PS depending on the >image?  I actually did try Dot
gain working space profiles at one time, but, I am happier with the Gray
Gamma 2.2 >working space profile.  It is just matching up very well with all
of the papers I use.  My monitor didn't just 'magicly' >profile itself.

In Color Settings, Gray working space I now have a custom dot gain curve
specifically for PhotoRag. The dot gain curves are actually paper specific
and not image specific. Once you've gone through the process of setting up a
custom dot gain it's used for all images printed on a particular paper. I
save the image untagged. Once it's dropped onto the IP layout window it's
using IP's color management which I have set to Gray Gamma 2.2. The
resulting print will not match the view in IP, but matches the PS view
exactly. If GG 2.2 is working for you, great. But, apparently some of us
have to go the dot gain or adjustment layer route. I felt more comfortable
with a custom dot gain having used the same technique during my Piezo days.
I like the fact that I don't have to think about "tweaking" the image in
order to match some memory of how my prints actually print, or having to
remember to turn on/off an adjustment layer and delete it before flattening.
Using a custom dot gain allows me to do my editing in PS as I would for any
image with the knowledge that what I see on the screen is what will be on
the paper.

BTW, I use a ColorVision Spyder and software to calibrate my monitor. I've
never used Adobe Gamma or any other visual technique to calibrate...my eyes
ain't that good anymore!

Alan Huntley


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- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep them short.
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

* -----Original Message-----
* From: A. Huntley [mailto:Alan.Huntley@...t] 
* Sent: Monday, October 27, 2003 8:18 PM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: Re: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
* 
* 
* Tom,
* 
*(snip)
* 
* > As for the dot gain issue, are you saying that you change 
* the working
* space gray profile in PS depending on the >image?  I actually 
* did try Dot gain working space profiles at one time, but, I 
* am happier with the Gray Gamma 2.2 >working space profile.  
* It is just matching up very well with all of the papers I 
* use.  My monitor didn't just 'magicly' >profile itself.
* 
* In Color Settings, Gray working space I now have a custom dot 
* gain curve specifically for PhotoRag. The dot gain curves are 
* actually paper specific and not image specific. Once you've 
* gone through the process of setting up a custom dot gain it's 
* used for all images printed on a particular paper. I save the 
* image untagged. Once it's dropped onto the IP layout window 
* it's using IP's color management which I have set to Gray 
* Gamma 2.2. The resulting print will not match the view in IP, 
* but matches the PS view exactly. If GG 2.2 is working for 
* you, great. But, apparently some of us have to go the dot 
* gain or adjustment layer route. I felt more comfortable with 
* a custom dot gain having used the same technique during my 
* Piezo days. I like the fact that I don't have to think about 
* "tweaking" the image in order to match some memory of how my 
* prints actually print, or having to remember to turn on/off 
* an adjustment layer and delete it before flattening. Using a 
* custom dot gain allows me to do my editing in PS as I would 
* for any image with the knowledge that what I see on the 
* screen is what will be on the paper.
* 
Alan, Tom,

There is an easier way to use the custom Dot Gain Curves. You save them and
use them "View>Proof Setup>Custom". You can then easily click the proof mode
on and off or switch from one to another if you use different papers. You
can just leave your file tagged as Gray Gamma 2.2 .

Tyler Boley wrote down the exact steps and you can find them in the Files
section in folder:

Files > Image Processing > Matching Your Monitor View to Your Prints.PDF

If your monitor is well calibrated and you have densitometer or
photospectrometer you can excellent screen to print matches. If you don't
have the fancy equipment you can eyeball it and get close enough.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

For: Martin Wesley

> There is an easier way to use the custom Dot Gain Curves. You save them and
> use them "View>Proof Setup>Custom". You can then easily click the proof mode
> on and off or switch from one to another if you use different papers. You
> can just leave your file tagged as Gray Gamma 2.2 .
> 
> Tyler Boley wrote down the exact steps and you can find them in the Files
> section in folder:
> 
> Files > Image Processing > Matching Your Monitor View to Your Prints.PDF

I downloaded the filed and tried this method, but the Dot Gain file I created didn't 
show up in Proof Setup. There is some problem in Mac OS X with this in that for 
ImagePrint one has to create an alias or copy profiles to an Application Support/
Adobe/Color/Profiles folder in order for the profiles to show up in PS7 Proof Colors. 
Even after creating such an alias the Custom Dot Gain profiles I create still don't show 
up in Proof Colors. Too bad, because you method you suggested in more elegant 
than the method that I have been using.

--Mitch/Bangkok

never change a winning team;-)

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "alland20854" 
<malland@x> wrote:
> For: Martin Wesley
> 
> > There is an easier way to use the custom Dot Gain Curves. You 
save them and
> > use them "View>Proof Setup>Custom". You can then easily click 
the proof mode
> > on and off or switch from one to another if you use different 
papers. You
> > can just leave your file tagged as Gray Gamma 2.2 .
> > 
> > Tyler Boley wrote down the exact steps and you can find them in 
the Files
> > section in folder:
> > 
> > Files > Image Processing > Matching Your Monitor View to Your 
Prints.PDF
> 
> I downloaded the filed and tried this method, but the Dot Gain 
file I created didn't 
> show up in Proof Setup. There is some problem in Mac OS X with 
this in that for 
> ImagePrint one has to create an alias or copy profiles to an 
Application Support/
> Adobe/Color/Profiles folder in order for the profiles to show up 
in PS7 Proof Colors. 
> Even after creating such an alias the Custom Dot Gain profiles I 
create still don't show 
> up in Proof Colors. Too bad, because you method you suggested in 
more elegant 

> than the method that I have been using.
> 
> --Mitch/Bangkok

Tom,

Yes, these are single layer (background only) 16-bit grayscale files open/saved in PS. Will try a TIF version tonight. I'm running IP 5.6.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: Tom Baker <tbaker1328@...>
> Date: 2003/10/27 Mon PM 11:42:32 EST
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
> 
> Alan  -
>  
> Calibrating my monitor by sight didn't help my eyes either.
>  
> Try the TIF.  I'd bet your problem will go away.  The image you describe is exactly what I see.  The actual print is of even less use.  BTW, on the images you are having this problem, did you flatten them at some point in you process?  That seemed to be a common point with the problems I had.  Also, are you using IP 5.5 or 5.6.  I am almost sure this started with 5.6, but I'm not 100% certain.
>  
> Tom Baker

Hi Martin,

Thanks for the tip...I'll look into your suggestion. The one thing I don't like about setting a Custom Dot Gain as your gray working space is that it's paper specific. In other words, if an image is worked up in PS with the working space set for one paper (PR, for example) and, then, you decide to print on a different paper (EEM, maybe) you've got a problem...the current "soft proof", if you will, could be (probably will be) incorrect.

Thanks, again, for the tip.

Alan Huntley

> 
> From: "Martin Wesley" <mwesley250@...>
> Date: 2003/10/28 Tue AM 03:29:38 EST
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
>  
> Alan, Tom,
> 
> There is an easier way to use the custom Dot Gain Curves. You save them and
> use them "View>Proof Setup>Custom". You can then easily click the proof mode
> on and off or switch from one to another if you use different papers. You
> can just leave your file tagged as Gray Gamma 2.2 .
> 
> Tyler Boley wrote down the exact steps and you can find them in the Files
> section in folder:
> 
> Files > Image Processing > Matching Your Monitor View to Your Prints.PDF
> 
> If your monitor is well calibrated and you have densitometer or
> photospectrometer you can excellent screen to print matches. If you don't
> have the fancy equipment you can eyeball it and get close enough.
> 
> Martin Wesley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, 
"Stephen Kobrin" <skobrin@h...> wrote:
> Thanks Alan,
> 
> I just called MIS and was told that with pigment-based inks you 
have 
> to print every day to avoid clogs.  I am not sure that I want to get 
> into that, even if it means just doing a nozzle check.  However, I 
> was also told that the 2200 Epson inks are pigment rather than 
dye 
> based and thus the 2200 is more prone to clogs than the dye 
based 
> printers such as the 1280.
> 
> Have you had clogging problems with the 2200? 

For about 8 months I've used my 2200 sporadically (many days 
or even weeks at a time turned "off" ) and have had just one 
minor clog (using oem UC inks only). I've also read no internet 
chatter to indicate that the 2200 has any greater tendency to clog 
(relative to dye-ink Epsons). What the situation may be for a 2200 
using MIS pigment inks, I cannot say.

Phil

* -----Original Message-----
* From: alland20854 [mailto:malland@...] 
* Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 2:53 AM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
* 
* 
* For: Martin Wesley
* 
(snip earlier)
* 
* I downloaded the filed and tried this method, but the Dot 
* Gain file I created didn't 
* show up in Proof Setup. There is some problem in Mac OS X 
* with this in that for 
* ImagePrint one has to create an alias or copy profiles to an 
* Application Support/ Adobe/Color/Profiles folder in order for 
* the profiles to show up in PS7 Proof Colors. 
* Even after creating such an alias the Custom Dot Gain 
* profiles I create still don't show 
* up in Proof Colors. Too bad, because you method you suggested 
* in more elegant 
* than the method that I have been using.

Mitch,

I am on a PC with Win XP so I can't help you there. What is critical is to
get the files in the right folders and perhaps OSX is a bit different in
some way. Image Print should not have anything to do with the process
however since you are not using the profile to print with. It is simply a
soft proof profile that matches your on screen view to your printer output
independently of the printing workflow.

There should be a way to make this work. Check PS Help as I notice the often
have different instructions for OS9 and OSX.

Martin Wesley
http://www.carolyn.cc/Guests/MartinWesley/pages/MW_01.html
http://www.borderless-photos.de/guests.html

* -----Original Message-----
* From: Alan.Huntley@... [mailto:Alan.Huntley@...] 
* Sent: Tuesday, October 28, 2003 6:00 AM
* To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
* Subject: RE: Re: [Digital BW] 1280 vs. 2200 question
* 
* 
* Hi Martin,
* 
* Thanks for the tip...I'll look into your suggestion. The one 
* thing I don't like about setting a Custom Dot Gain as your 
* gray working space is that it's paper specific. In other 
* words, if an image is worked up in PS with the working space 
* set for one paper (PR, for example) and, then, you decide to 
* print on a different paper (EEM, maybe) you've got a 
* problem...the current "soft proof", if you will, could be 
* (probably will be) incorrect.

You are right. You should have a standard gray working space, generally Gray
Gamma 2,2, and us it for all files. That's why Tyler's method works so well.
It is a true soft proof method as Adobe intended with PS. The Proof Profiles
actually become common profiles available to other Adobe applications as
well.

>... called MIS and was told that with pigment-based inks you have
> to print every day to avoid clogs.  ...

I think that is nonsense for most people.  Maybe for very low humidity areas
it's true, but I'd probably still be in the darkroom if digital B&W was such
a hassle.

Paul
http://www.PaulRoark.com

I live at 6800', print with an 1160, sometimes every day, somtimes 
once a week...MIS VM inks, CIS system w/4 oz. bottles, no problems. 
There is no reason on this system to print every day to avoid clogs, 
but have had a couple clogs over the last 5 months...no big 
deal...just ran clean cycle 2x, then fine.
Best, Mark R.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Paul Roark" 
<paul.roark@v...> wrote:
> >... called MIS and was told that with pigment-based inks you have
> > to print every day to avoid clogs.  ...
> 
> I think that is nonsense for most people.  Maybe for very low 
humidity areas
> it's true, but I'd probably still be in the darkroom if digital B&W 
was such

> a hassle.
> 
> Paul
> http://www.PaulRoark.com

I've never fully grasped the dot gain method.   I think I understand what y=
ou are 
doing, but I don't see how it differs from creating "print" adjustment laye=
rs.  I see how 
it does... but fundamentally its the same thing... I think.

The way I work now, I get my image the way I want it in PS (on a properly c=
alibrated 
monitor).  Then I make a test strip print with that file (using ImagePrint =
+ an IP 
profile).  My file is gamma 2.2.  I then compare the print to the screen.  =
I then make 
adjustment layers which will make the print look like the screen.  I usuall=
y have to 
add contrast and lighten it up.  After some fine tuning to the layers, I am=
 ready for my 
final print.  I then just print the layered file.

Now, with the dot gain method, you create a custom dot gain curve for the w=
ay 
photoshop displays the image.  So, if we were taking my example, I would ne=
ed to 
make a dot gain curve that makes the on-screen display a little flatter and=
 a little 
darker (because I would need to make the screen look like a straight print)=
.

Now that you have the custom dot gain, you edit in photoshop to get the ima=
ge how 
you want it and then print.

Am I correct on this so far?

So, from what I can see, this is two ways to do the exact same thing.  With=
 the dot 
gain method, (using my typical scenario) I am adding contrast and brightnes=
s to the 
image while getting it to look the way i want.  But as far as I'm concerned=
, I'm just 
working as normal because the dot gain curve makes  the image appear flatte=
r and 
darker than it really is.   Then all I need to do is make a straight print =
and it will 
match.  With the print adjustment layer method, I am adding the extra contr=
ast and 
brightness after I've got the image to look as I want it on-screen.  Either=
 way, the 
image is going to have extra contrast and brightness for the print.

Assuming an image will look close from one calibrated monitor to another...=
 now, 
isn't the image you photoshopped using a dot gain curve overly contrasty an=
d overly 
bright?  So, if I want to use that image for a web page or on-screen use, I=
 have to now 
take away contrast and brightness?  To me, that would seem more of a hassle=
.

Or, am I not getting this whole dot gain thing?!?!?

Jeff


> As for the dot gain issue, are you saying that you change the working
space gray profile in PS depending on the >image?  I actually did try Dot
gain working space profiles at one time, but, I am happier with the Gray
Gamma 2.2 >working space profile.  It is just matching up very well with al=
l
of the papers I use.  My monitor didn't just 'magicly' >profile itself.

In Color Settings, Gray working space I now have a custom dot gain curve
specifically for PhotoRag. The dot gain curves are actually paper specific
and not image specific. Once you've gone through the process of setting up =
a
custom dot gain it's used for all images printed on a particular paper. I
save the image untagged. Once it's dropped onto the IP layout window it's
using IP's color management which I have set to Gray Gamma 2.2. The
resulting print will not match the view in IP, but matches the PS view
exactly. If GG 2.2 is working for you, great. But, apparently some of us
have to go the dot gain or adjustment layer route. I felt more comfortable
with a custom dot gain having used the same technique during my Piezo days.=

I like the fact that I don't have to think about "tweaking" the image in
order to match some memory of how my prints actually print, or having to
remember to turn on/off an adjustment layer and delete it before flattening=
.
Using a custom dot gain allows me to do my editing in PS as I would for any=

image with the knowledge that what I see on the screen is what will be on
the paper.

BTW, I use a ColorVision Spyder and software to calibrate my monitor. I've
never used Adobe Gamma or any other visual technique to calibrate...my eyes=

ain't that good anymore!

Alan Huntley

Hello Jeff,

>Or, am I not getting this whole dot gain thing?!?!?

I think you have "got it" very well.  There are pros and cons to each
approach.  There are so many different ways to work, just pick what
works best for you.

Regards,
Clayton


Info on black and white digital printing at    
http://www.cjcom.net/digiprnarts.htm