Digital BW, The Print

On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:17 PM, dmdctusa wrote:

> I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe
> Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom
> printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of
> choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me
> closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.
>
> According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as
> used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The
> increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other
> matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product.
> The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from
> Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in
> silver based papers.
>
> For the record,  my work flow:
>
> Computer: Custom Duo Core 1.8ghz PC, AOpen mb with Intel chips, WinXP
> Pro.
>
> Scan: color neg or B&W film with Nikon Coolscan 4000 (with Nikonscan
> or Vuescan, whichever is better on the given day)
>
> Edit: Lightroom v1.0 for initial conversion and edits. Final levels
> set in Lightzone v2.1 and then back to LR for final printing.
>
> Printing: Epson 2200 - a) for black only straight to the printer from
> LR (UC inks) or b) export image for printing with Quadtone RIP.
>
> For me the key to this flow is the use of LZ from within LR to set my
> black and white levels; the plus is that LZ lets me work on regions
> as well as the overall image.
>
> Finally, the LR/LZ edit interface seem to work well.  It appears that
> if I open the LZ edit image from the LR file I can still access the
> LZ levels etc and save the image back to the LR file with the changes
> reflected in LR.  I would appreciate someone else confirming this is
> in fact happening.
>
> Comments from anyone who has tested this paper would be most welcome
> and of interest to other members of the forum!
>
> David Dorn

>
> I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe 
> Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom 
> printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of 
> choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me 
> closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.
> 
> According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as 
> used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The 
> increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other 
> matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product. 
> The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from 
> Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in 
> silver based papers.
> 
> For the record,  my work flow:
> 
> Computer: Custom Duo Core 1.8ghz PC, AOpen mb with Intel chips, WinXP 
> Pro.
> 
> Scan: color neg or B&W film with Nikon Coolscan 4000 (with Nikonscan 
> or Vuescan, whichever is better on the given day)
> 
> Edit: Lightroom v1.0 for initial conversion and edits. Final levels 
> set in Lightzone v2.1 and then back to LR for final printing.
> 
> Printing: Epson 2200 - a) for black only straight to the printer from 
> LR (UC inks) or b) export image for printing with Quadtone RIP.
> 
> For me the key to this flow is the use of LZ from within LR to set my 
> black and white levels; the plus is that LZ lets me work on regions 
> as well as the overall image.
> 
> Finally, the LR/LZ edit interface seem to work well.  It appears that 
> if I open the LZ edit image from the LR file I can still access the 
> LZ levels etc and save the image back to the LR file with the changes 
> reflected in LR.  I would appreciate someone else confirming this is 
> in fact happening.
> 
> Comments from anyone who has tested this paper would be most welcome 
> and of interest to other members of the forum!
> 
> David Dorn
>

----- Original Message ----
From: dmdctusa <dmdornctusa@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 12:17:41 PM
Subject: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp - First Weeks Testing









  


    
            I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe 

Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom 

printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of 

choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me 

closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.



According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as 

used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The 

increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other 

matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product. 

The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from 

Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in 

silver based papers.



For the record,  my work flow:



Computer: Custom Duo Core 1.8ghz PC, AOpen mb with Intel chips, WinXP 

Pro.



Scan: color neg or B&W film with Nikon Coolscan 4000 (with Nikonscan 

or Vuescan, whichever is better on the given day)



Edit: Lightroom v1.0 for initial conversion and edits. Final levels 

set in Lightzone v2.1 and then back to LR for final printing.



Printing: Epson 2200 - a) for black only straight to the printer from 

LR (UC inks) or b) export image for printing with Quadtone RIP.



For me the key to this flow is the use of LZ from within LR to set my 

black and white levels; the plus is that LZ lets me work on regions 

as well as the overall image.



Finally, the LR/LZ edit interface seem to work well.  It appears that 

if I open the LZ edit image from the LR file I can still access the 

LZ levels etc and save the image back to the LR file with the changes 

reflected in LR.  I would appreciate someone else confirming this is 

in fact happening.



Comments from anyone who has tested this paper would be most welcome 

and of interest to other members of the forum!



David Dorn





    
  

    
    




<!--

On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:17 PM, dmdctusa wrote:

> I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe
> Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom
> printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of
> choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me
> closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.
>
> According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as
> used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The
> increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other
> matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product.
> The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from
> Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in
> silver based papers.
>
> For the record,  my work flow:
>
> Computer: Custom Duo Core 1.8ghz PC, AOpen mb with Intel chips, WinXP
> Pro.
>
> Scan: color neg or B&W film with Nikon Coolscan 4000 (with Nikonscan
> or Vuescan, whichever is better on the given day)
>
> Edit: Lightroom v1.0 for initial conversion and edits. Final levels
> set in Lightzone v2.1 and then back to LR for final printing.
>
> Printing: Epson 2200 - a) for black only straight to the printer from
> LR (UC inks) or b) export image for printing with Quadtone RIP.
>
> For me the key to this flow is the use of LZ from within LR to set my
> black and white levels; the plus is that LZ lets me work on regions
> as well as the overall image.
>
> Finally, the LR/LZ edit interface seem to work well.  It appears that
> if I open the LZ edit image from the LR file I can still access the
> LZ levels etc and save the image back to the LR file with the changes
> reflected in LR.  I would appreciate someone else confirming this is
> in fact happening.
>
> Comments from anyone who has tested this paper would be most welcome
> and of interest to other members of the forum!
>
> David Dorn
>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:43 PM, sinar001 wrote:

> Maybe a little background into what has happened to Ilford is in  
> order!
>
> Just this morning I had a nice extended conversation with Gregg LaNoue
> of Ilford, and he gave me a brief history of what has happened to
> Ilford lately.
>
> It was bought by a Japanese company called Oji. Then the British part
> was sold off to a management group and is known as Harman's. They
> stricktly market B&W films, papers, etc under the Ilford name. Any
> inkjet products are marketed under the Harman brand.
>
> Gregg told me that Ilford, Switzerland has had over $10 million spent
> on coating plant improvements/expansion in Switzerland. Ilford is
> planning to once again start marketing Ink Jet papers in the US under
> the "Galerie" lable.
>
> Ilford's Bingham, NY & New Jersey locations have been closed, and a
> new office has been opened in Springfield, Mass.
>
> They are also exploring a Baryta product, and will have a presence at
> PMA with the product. This product is still under development, and is
> a different product than what the Harman company is showing.
>
> I should note, that about 5 or six years ago, Ilford developed an
> inkjet paper that had the "air-dried" look, but was only 4 mils in
> thickness.
>
> Gregg promised to send me some sample product when it becomes  
> available.
>
> John Nollendorfs
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dmdctusa"
> <dmdornctusa@...> wrote:
>>
>> I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe
>> Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom
>> printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of
>> choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me
>> closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.
>>
>> According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as
>> used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The
>> increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other
>> matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product.
>> The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from
>> Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in
>> silver based papers.
>>
>> For the record,  my work flow:
>>
>> Computer: Custom Duo Core 1.8ghz PC, AOpen mb with Intel chips, WinXP
>> Pro.
>>
>> Scan: color neg or B&W film with Nikon Coolscan 4000 (with Nikonscan
>> or Vuescan, whichever is better on the given day)
>>
>> Edit: Lightroom v1.0 for initial conversion and edits. Final levels
>> set in Lightzone v2.1 and then back to LR for final printing.
>>
>> Printing: Epson 2200 - a) for black only straight to the printer from
>> LR (UC inks) or b) export image for printing with Quadtone RIP.
>>
>> For me the key to this flow is the use of LZ from within LR to set my
>> black and white levels; the plus is that LZ lets me work on regions
>> as well as the overall image.
>>
>> Finally, the LR/LZ edit interface seem to work well.  It appears that
>> if I open the LZ edit image from the LR file I can still access the
>> LZ levels etc and save the image back to the LR file with the changes
>> reflected in LR.  I would appreciate someone else confirming this is
>> in fact happening.
>>
>> Comments from anyone who has tested this paper would be most welcome
>> and of interest to other members of the forum!
>>
>> David Dorn
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:38 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:

> I've been waiting for this paper.  Who is selling it?
>
> Carl
>
> On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:17 PM, dmdctusa wrote:
>
>> I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe
>> Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom
>> printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of
>> choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me
>> closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.
>>
>> According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as
>> used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The
>> increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other
>> matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product.
>> The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from
>> Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in
>> silver based papers.
>>
>> For the record,  my work flow:
>>
>> Computer: Custom Duo Core 1.8ghz PC, AOpen mb with Intel chips, WinXP
>> Pro.
>>
>> Scan: color neg or B&W film with Nikon Coolscan 4000 (with Nikonscan
>> or Vuescan, whichever is better on the given day)
>>
>> Edit: Lightroom v1.0 for initial conversion and edits. Final levels
>> set in Lightzone v2.1 and then back to LR for final printing.
>>
>> Printing: Epson 2200 - a) for black only straight to the printer from
>> LR (UC inks) or b) export image for printing with Quadtone RIP.
>>
>> For me the key to this flow is the use of LZ from within LR to set my
>> black and white levels; the plus is that LZ lets me work on regions
>> as well as the overall image.
>>
>> Finally, the LR/LZ edit interface seem to work well.  It appears that
>> if I open the LZ edit image from the LR file I can still access the
>> LZ levels etc and save the image back to the LR file with the changes
>> reflected in LR.  I would appreciate someone else confirming this is
>> in fact happening.
>>
>> Comments from anyone who has tested this paper would be most welcome
>> and of interest to other members of the forum!
>>
>> David Dorn
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

>
> Check with Wynit.
> 
> On Feb 21, 2007, at 12:38 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:
> 
> > I've been waiting for this paper.  Who is selling it?
> >
> > Carl

> >
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"  
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL  
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

On Feb 21, 2007, at 8:13 PM, dmdctusa wrote:

> When I made my original post I forgot to include the link to Harman
> Technology's website.  The link is:
>
>           http://www.harman-inkjet.com/home.asp
>
> The home page has a discussion (dated Feb. 2007) of the paper and
> indicates that a warm-tone matt, semi-glossy and glossy will follow.
> Good news indeed.
>
> David
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups - Join or create groups, clubs, forums &  
> communities. Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

>
> I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe 
> Near Nirvana, time will tell).  As background my wet darkroom 
> printing was 99% glossy paper which was air dried and my develper of 
> choice was and still is Harvey's 777.  This paper has gotten me 
> closer to the "look:" than any I have tried.
> 
> According to Harman's info, the coating base is Baryta, the same as 
> used for the base of high quality silver emulsion paper.  The 
> increase in sharpness and depth of the blacks when compared to other 
> matt papers is amazing.  NOTE: this is not an ILFORD injet product. 
> The Ilford injet paper business was acquired by another company from 
> Ciba-Geigy.  The Harmon injet paper shows the Ilford technology in 
> silver based papers.
>

From: dmdctusa <dmdornctusa@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2007 01:13:25 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 
 
 

When I made my original post I forgot to include the link to Harman
Technology's website.  The link is:

http://www.harman-inkjet.com/home.asp

The home page has a discussion (dated Feb. 2007) of the paper and
indicates that a warm-tone matt, semi-glossy and glossy will follow.
Good news indeed.

David

 
  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 25, 2007, at 6:51 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dmdctusa"
> <dmdornctusa@...> wrote:
>>
>> John wrote:
>>
>> David-
>>> I would be curious to know what the Dmax of this paper is.
>>> -John
>> --------------------------------------
>> John,
>>
>> I have know way of measuring the Dmax, but my eye tells me it is
>> going higher than other matt papers and particlulary, Epson Enhanced
>> matt....
>
> I don't have or use EEM so can't address that directly. Compared to
> HPR and other fine art matte papers here it falls short.
> Quick tests with a 9800 ABW UCK3, and 9600 Piezotones, it's just
> lower, 1.55 for the ABW and 1.6+ with a Cone setup not yet refined for
> this paper. Visually the blacks don't fail to satisfy, they appear  
> rich.
> The paper is thinner than most art papers, and as Mark mentioned bears
> resemblance to EEM in many ways. The surface is different though and
> unique, very smooth, no detectable paper texture, but matte. Sort of
> card like.
> Even though there is implication of a connection with classic silver
> papers because of the use of baryta, it bears no resemblance to any
> silver paper I ever used or have seen, more evidence of the futility
> of attempting to force one process to look like another.
>
> All that said, the paper has a definite appeal. The coating seems to
> hold a very very sharp dot, and the way the ink sits in all this
> complicated mess of coating, baryta, and whatever else may be
> involved, seems to present the image in a very photographic way that
> eliminates the issue of surface almost entirely. It's a very smooth
> look with no "fine art" paper look to it at all, primarily "image
> only". It floats with a subtle dimensional quality with the large
> format image I tried.
>
> The paper doesn't exceed or even meet the specs of the best papers we
> are used to, but I think there are many that would like it a lot for
> photography. It's worth a try if the above sounds appealing to you.
>
> It's always frustrating to receive evaluation samples from many of
> these companies. On the one hand they want a fair evaluation, and on
> the other it seems coughing up enough spare sheets to do so will break
> the bank.
> Media setting tests, with subsequent profiling, for color and ABW with
> the Epson driver, much more if with a RIP, then the amount of work
> needed to linearize and optimize output for a mono set takes a fair
> amount of paper. Also, it's the only way to really see it's potential.
>
> I might take this a little farther with the few small sheets I have
> left, but that's it for now for B&W. Don't get confused with the
> claimed connection to silver paper, or the presence of baryta. It's a
> matte ink paper, with a somewhat unique appealing look appropriate for
> photography.
>
> Tyler
>
>
>
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> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
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> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
>> Mark
>
> Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to here. In
> fact the prints are pretty durable.
> I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
> Tyler
>
>
>
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> ~-->
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> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
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> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
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> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
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>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

>
> I tested a 44" roll back in November, hot off the ship. I put an e- 
> mail into my Ilford (Harman) rep to see if they made any changes  
> since then, but no word back from him yet, on vaca.
> I tried letting it dry for a few days, put it in a dry mount press  
> and a fingernail peeled it right off. It was a bit scary. The Epson  
> UC inks were fine.
> Mark
> 
> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> > <mark@> wrote:
> >>
> >> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
> >> Mark
> >
> > Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to here. In
> > fact the prints are pretty durable.
> > I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
> > Tyler
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
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> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
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> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> > visiting this same page.
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> > to keep them short.
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> > from the membership without notice.
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> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
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> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL  
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Could very well be different. This packaging says the largest roll
> available is 24", largest sheet 13x19. There's a deal killer right
> there. It also dries right away, so sounds different.
> T
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> I tested a 44" roll back in November, hot off the ship. I put an e-
>> mail into my Ilford (Harman) rep to see if they made any changes
>> since then, but no word back from him yet, on vaca.
>> I tried letting it dry for a few days, put it in a dry mount press
>> and a fingernail peeled it right off. It was a bit scary. The Epson
>> UC inks were fine.
>> Mark
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>>> <mark@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
>>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to  
>>> here. In
>>> fact the prints are pretty durable.
>>> I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>>> ~-->
>>> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
>>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ~->
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>>> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
>>> visiting this same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>>> to keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
>>> from the membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>>> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>>> removed from the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
>>> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
>>> group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
>>> in the Files section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
>>> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
>>> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
>>> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
>>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
>>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
>>> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
>>> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
>>> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
>>> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
>>> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
>
>
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> ~-->
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> design.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/kOt0.A/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
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> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
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> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
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> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

----- Original Message ----
From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 6:51:15 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] re Dmax - New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp









  


    
            --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, "dmdctusa"

<dmdornctusa@ ...> wrote:

>

> John wrote:

> 

> David-

> > I would be curious to know what the Dmax of this paper is.

> > -John

> ------------ --------- --------- --------

> John,

> 

> I have know way of measuring the Dmax, but my eye tells me it is 

> going higher than other matt papers and particlulary, Epson Enhanced 

> matt....



I don't have or use EEM so can't address that directly. Compared to

HPR and other fine art matte papers here it falls short.

Quick tests with a 9800 ABW UCK3, and 9600 Piezotones, it's just

lower, 1.55 for the ABW and 1.6+ with a Cone setup not yet refined for

this paper. Visually the blacks don't fail to satisfy, they appear rich.

The paper is thinner than most art papers, and as Mark mentioned bears

resemblance to EEM in many ways. The surface is different though and

unique, very smooth, no detectable paper texture, but matte. Sort of

card like.

Even though there is implication of a connection with classic silver

papers because of the use of baryta, it bears no resemblance to any

silver paper I ever used or have seen, more evidence of the futility

of attempting to force one process to look like another.



All that said, the paper has a definite appeal. The coating seems to

hold a very very sharp dot, and the way the ink sits in all this

complicated mess of coating, baryta, and whatever else may be

involved, seems to present the image in a very photographic way that

eliminates the issue of surface almost entirely. It's a very smooth

look with no "fine art" paper look to it at all, primarily "image

only". It floats with a subtle dimensional quality with the large

format image I tried.



The paper doesn't exceed or even meet the specs of the best papers we

are used to, but I think there are many that would like it a lot for

photography. It's worth a try if the above sounds appealing to you.



It's always frustrating to receive evaluation samples from many of

these companies. On the one hand they want a fair evaluation, and on

the other it seems coughing up enough spare sheets to do so will break

the bank.

Media setting tests, with subsequent profiling, for color and ABW with

the Epson driver, much more if with a RIP, then the amount of work

needed to linearize and optimize output for a mono set takes a fair

amount of paper. Also, it's the only way to really see it's potential.



I might take this a little farther with the few small sheets I have

left, but that's it for now for B&W. Don't get confused with the

claimed connection to silver paper, or the presence of baryta. It's a

matte ink paper, with a somewhat unique appealing look appropriate for

photography.



Tyler





    
  

    
    




<!--

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler
Boley
Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2007 6:54 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] re Dmax - New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)
Matt FB mp

 

Could very well be different. This packaging says the largest roll
available is 24", largest sheet 13x19. There's a deal killer right
there. It also dries right away, so sounds different.
T

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
<mark@...> wrote:
>
> I tested a 44" roll back in November, hot off the ship. I put an e- 
> mail into my Ilford (Harman) rep to see if they made any changes 
> since then, but no word back from him yet, on vaca.
> I tried letting it dry for a few days, put it in a dry mount press 
> and a fingernail peeled it right off. It was a bit scary. The Epson 
> UC inks were fine.
> Mark
> 
> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
> 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> > <mark@> wrote:
> >>
> >> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
> >> Mark
> >
> > Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to here. In
> > fact the prints are pretty durable.
> > I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
> > Tyler
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> > ~-->
> > Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
> > http://us.click.
<http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM>
yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > ---------------------------------------------------------- 
> > ~->
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by 
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed 
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital 
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
> > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" 
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE 
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL 
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, 
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, 
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER 
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL 
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF 
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE 
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO 
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO 
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Could very well be different. This packaging says the largest roll
> available is 24", largest sheet 13x19. There's a deal killer right
> there. It also dries right away, so sounds different.
> T
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
> <mark@...> wrote:
>>
>> I tested a 44" roll back in November, hot off the ship. I put an e-
>> mail into my Ilford (Harman) rep to see if they made any changes
>> since then, but no word back from him yet, on vaca.
>> I tried letting it dry for a few days, put it in a dry mount press
>> and a fingernail peeled it right off. It was a bit scary. The Epson
>> UC inks were fine.
>> Mark
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>>> <mark@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
>>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to  
>>> here. In
>>> fact the prints are pretty durable.
>>> I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
>>> ~-->
>>> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
>>> http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
>>> --------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> ~->
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>>> resources as they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>>> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
>>> visiting this same page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>>> to keep them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>>> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
>>> from the membership without notice.
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On Feb 27, 2007, at 10:55 AM, Max Dee wrote:

> Stop using the ILFORD name ....Ilford is dead....."Long Live Harman  
> Technology"
>
>
> Mark Savoia <mark@ctphoto.com> wrote:
>   Just heard from my Ilford (Harman) rep, the paper is the same as  
> when
> I tested it back in November. They made no changes.
> Mark
>
> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>
>> Could very well be different. This packaging says the largest roll
>> available is 24", largest sheet 13x19. There's a deal killer right
>> there. It also dries right away, so sounds different.
>> T
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I tested a 44" roll back in November, hot off the ship. I put an e-
>>> mail into my Ilford (Harman) rep to see if they made any changes
>>> since then, but no word back from him yet, on vaca.
>>> I tried letting it dry for a few days, put it in a dry mount press
>>> and a fingernail peeled it right off. It was a bit scary. The Epson
>>> UC inks were fine.
>>> Mark
>>>
>>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>>
>>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Mark Savoia
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
>>>>> Mark
>>>>
>>>> Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to
>>>> here. In
>>>> fact the prints are pretty durable.
>>>> I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
>>>> Tyler
>>>>
>>>>
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----- Original Message ----
From: Max Dee <deeemaxxx@...>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 27 February, 2007 4:55:37 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] re Dmax - New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp

Stop using the ILFORD name ....Ilford is dead....."Long Live Harman Technology"


Mark Savoia <mark@ctphoto. com> wrote:
Just heard from my Ilford (Harman) rep, the paper is the same as when 
I tested it back in November. They made no changes.
Mark

On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:53 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> Could very well be different. This packaging says the largest roll
> available is 24", largest sheet 13x19. There's a deal killer right
> there. It also dries right away, so sounds different.
> T
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, Mark Savoia
> wrote:
>>
>> I tested a 44" roll back in November, hot off the ship. I put an e-
>> mail into my Ilford (Harman) rep to see if they made any changes
>> since then, but no word back from him yet, on vaca.
>> I tried letting it dry for a few days, put it in a dry mount press
>> and a fingernail peeled it right off. It was a bit scary. The Epson
>> UC inks were fine.
>> Mark
>>
>> On Feb 25, 2007, at 7:17 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit eThePrint@ yahoogroups. com, Mark Savoia
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> FYI... and Cone's PiezoTone inks scratch right off. Too bad.
>>>> Mark
>>>
>>> Mark, I noticed your mention of that, but they didn't seem to 
>>> here. In
>>> fact the prints are pretty durable.
>>> I wonder if the paper has been changed since your test?
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
>>> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
>>> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
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>>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
>>> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
>>> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
>>> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
>>> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
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> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
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Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as they are often being updated.

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BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "John" <

Not correct! they are two separate companies Ilford in Switzerland and 
Harman in the UK. Both have their own products, but all the Geniuses are at 
Harman, this is an up and comming Company and one to watch!!

John_E

***************************************************************

John

The original Ilford company produced photographic material in the UK and 
inkjet paper (Gallerie) in Switzerland. The company  was broken up a few 
years ago, the Swiss branch retaining the rights to the Ilford name for 
inkjet products. The UK photographic section was bought out by the UK 
management and called Harman Technologies, with the right to use the Ilford 
name for photographic products only. That is why the new inkjet paper is 
called 'Harman' and not Ilford.
I saw some samples of the Harman paper at the Focus show yesterday, and was 
very impressed.

Brian

From: Tyler Boley <tyler@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2007 23:51:15 -0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] re Dmax - New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)
Matt FB mp

 
 
 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "dmdctusa"
<dmdornctusa@...> wrote:
>
> John wrote:
> 
> David-
> > I would be curious to know what the Dmax of this paper is.
> > -John
> --------------------------------------
> John,
> 
> I have know way of measuring the Dmax, but my eye tells me it is
> going higher than other matt papers and particlulary, Epson Enhanced
> matt....

I don't have or use EEM so can't address that directly. Compared to
HPR and other fine art matte papers here it falls short.
Quick tests with a 9800 ABW UCK3, and 9600 Piezotones, it's just
lower, 1.55 for the ABW and 1.6+ with a Cone setup not yet refined for
this paper. Visually the blacks don't fail to satisfy, they appear rich.
The paper is thinner than most art papers, and as Mark mentioned bears
resemblance to EEM in many ways. The surface is different though and
unique, very smooth, no detectable paper texture, but matte. Sort of
card like.
Even though there is implication of a connection with classic silver
papers because of the use of baryta, it bears no resemblance to any
silver paper I ever used or have seen, more evidence of the futility
of attempting to force one process to look like another.

All that said, the paper has a definite appeal. The coating seems to
hold a very very sharp dot, and the way the ink sits in all this
complicated mess of coating, baryta, and whatever else may be
involved, seems to present the image in a very photographic way that
eliminates the issue of surface almost entirely. It's a very smooth
look with no "fine art" paper look to it at all, primarily "image
only". It floats with a subtle dimensional quality with the large
format image I tried.

The paper doesn't exceed or even meet the specs of the best papers we
are used to, but I think there are many that would like it a lot for
photography. It's worth a try if the above sounds appealing to you.

It's always frustrating to receive evaluation samples from many of
these companies. On the one hand they want a fair evaluation, and on
the other it seems coughing up enough spare sheets to do so will break
the bank.
Media setting tests, with subsequent profiling, for color and ABW with
the Epson driver, much more if with a RIP, then the amount of work
needed to linearize and optimize output for a mono set takes a fair
amount of paper. Also, it's the only way to really see it's potential.

I might take this a little farther with the few small sheets I have
left, but that's it for now for B&W. Don't get confused with the
claimed connection to silver paper, or the presence of baryta. It's a
matte ink paper, with a somewhat unique appealing look appropriate for
photography.

Tyler

 
    



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Savoia
> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:29 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp
> - First Weeks
> 
> They have very few profiles available so far on their web site.
> 
> FYI When I tried this paper a few months ago it scratched right off
> if using Cone's Piezo Inks.
> Mark
> 
> On

On Mar 7, 2007, at 10:11 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:

> Mark, I promised to run a sheet of Harmon with the Piezotones/Sepia  
> and it
> DOES NOT scratch off. It does in fact look quite nice. Sorry it  
> took me
> several days to remember to bring a sheet home. I would definitely  
> look at
> this as a workable solution to crisp matte prints. I am using  
> museum black
> in my 7000.
>
> Eric
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
> 4101 Commerce Street
> Suite 9
> Dallas, TX 75226
> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> Skype ejprinter
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
>> Mark
>> Savoia
>> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:29 AM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  
>> Matt FB mp
>> - First Weeks
>>
>> They have very few profiles available so far on their web site.
>>
>> FYI When I tried this paper a few months ago it scratched right off
>> if using Cone's Piezo Inks.
>> Mark
>>
>> On
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
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> in the Files section:
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> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
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> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Savoia
> Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 6:11 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp
> - First Weeks
> 
> I have a feeling they did change it since I tested it and my rep may
> not know that. Portfolio black if that matters.
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 7, 2007, at 10:11 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> 
> > Mark, I promised to run a sheet of Harmon with the Piezotones/Sepia
> > and it
> > DOES NOT scratch off. It does in fact look quite nice. Sorry it
> > took me
> > several days to remember to bring a sheet home. I would definitely
> > look at
> > this as a workable solution to crisp matte prints. I am using
> > museum black
> > in my 7000.
> >
> > Eric
> >
> > Eric Neilsen Photography
> > 4101 Commerce Street
> > Suite 9
> > Dallas, TX 75226
> > http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> > Skype ejprinter
> >
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> >> Mark
> >> Savoia
> >> Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 6:29 AM
> >> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)
> >> Matt FB mp
> >> - First Weeks
> >>
> >> They have very few profiles available so far on their web site.
> >>
> >> FYI When I tried this paper a few months ago it scratched right off
> >> if using Cone's Piezo Inks.
> >> Mark
> >>
> >> On
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> > ~-->
> > Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email
> > design.
> > http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ~->
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
> > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

> From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:11:25 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp -
> First Weeks
> 
> I have a feeling they did change it since I tested it and my rep may
> not know that. Portfolio black if that matters.
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 7, 2007, at 10:11 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> 
>> Mark, I promised to run a sheet of Harmon with the Piezotones/Sepia
>> and it
>> DOES NOT scratch off. It does in fact look quite nice. Sorry it
>> took me
>> several days to remember to bring a sheet home. I would definitely
>> look at
>> this as a workable solution to crisp matte prints. I am using
>> museum black
>> in my 7000.
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> 4101 Commerce Street
>> Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>> Skype ejprinter

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Kale
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 10:22 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 

MIS Eboni and the Epson K3 inks scratch off

> From: Mark Savoia <mark@ctphoto. <mailto:mark%40ctphoto.com> com>
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:11:25 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp
-
> First Weeks
> 
> I have a feeling they did change it since I tested it and my rep may
> not know that. Portfolio black if that matters.
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 7, 2007, at 10:11 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
> 
>> Mark, I promised to run a sheet of Harmon with the Piezotones/Sepia
>> and it
>> DOES NOT scratch off. It does in fact look quite nice. Sorry it
>> took me
>> several days to remember to bring a sheet home. I would definitely
>> look at
>> this as a workable solution to crisp matte prints. I am using
>> museum black
>> in my 7000.
>> 
>> Eric
>> 
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>> 4101 Commerce Street
>> Suite 9
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>> http://e.neilsen. <http://e.neilsen.home.att.net> home.att.net
>> http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com
>> Skype ejprinter

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@...>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:57:52 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 
 
 

I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the print, but
compared to how easily Piezotones wiped of earlier glossy and Pictorico
products, it stays put very well. I put a very heavy finger nail rub on
several prints and I can NOT get it to lift with K3 inks. I can change the
surface quality to show a bit of a shine where I scratched it, but no ink
comes up. Are you seeing ink on a white cloth or a change in Dmax reading
Steve? 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype : ejprinter




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Steve Kale
  Sent: 14 March 2007 15:22
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks


  MIS Eboni and the Epson K3 inks scratch off

  > From: Mark Savoia <mark@...>
  > Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2007 07:11:25 -0500
  > To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
  > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp -
  > First Weeks
  >
  > I have a feeling they did change it since I tested it and my rep may
  > not know that. Portfolio black if that matters.
  > Mark
  >
  > On Mar 7, 2007, at 10:11 PM, Eric Neilsen wrote:
  >
  >> Mark, I promised to run a sheet of Harmon with the Piezotones/Sepia
  >> and it
  >> DOES NOT scratch off. It does in fact look quite nice. Sorry it
  >> took me
  >> several days to remember to bring a sheet home. I would definitely
  >> look at
  >> this as a workable solution to crisp matte prints. I am using
  >> museum black
  >> in my 7000.
  >>
  >> Eric
  >>
  >> Eric Neilsen Photography
  >> 4101 Commerce Street
  >> Suite 9
  >> Dallas, TX 75226
  >> http://e.neilsen.home.att.net
  >> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
  >> Skype ejprinter



  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mar 14, 2007, at 1:05 PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> If I just run my finger nail across a patch (from paper white,  
> through the
> patch to paper white) all the ink lifts off leaving paper white.
>
>
>
> From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@...>
> Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 10:57:52 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)   
> Matt FB mp -
> First Weeks
>
>
>
>
>
> I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the  
> print, but
> compared to how easily Piezotones wiped of earlier glossy and  
> Pictorico
> products, it stays put very well. I put a very heavy finger nail  
> rub on
> several prints and I can NOT get it to lift with K3 inks. I can  
> change the
> surface quality to show a bit of a shine where I scratched it, but  
> no ink
> comes up. Are you seeing ink on a white cloth or a change in Dmax  
> reading
> Steve?
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
>
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> 214-827-8301
>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> Skype : ejprinter
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> ~-->
> Something is new at Yahoo! Groups.  Check out the enhanced email  
> design.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/kOt0.A/gOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See „Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines‰  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  „OWNER‰ AND „MODERATORS‰ OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tyler
Boley
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:20 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 

the posted differences are so great that there must be batch
inconsistancies. Mine is like Eric's- tough stuff.
I tried to find them at PMA, but the Ilford booth clearly wanted
nothing to do with them, and then we couldn't find them in that
fiasco. Apparently they were there somewhere.
Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
Photo " <e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the
print...

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> First Weeks
> 
>  
> 
> the posted differences are so great that there must be batch
> inconsistancies. Mine is like Eric's- tough stuff.
> I tried to find them at PMA, but the Ilford booth clearly wanted
> nothing to do with them, and then we couldn't find them in that
> fiasco. Apparently they were there somewhere.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
> Photo " <e.neilsen2@> wrote:
> >
> > I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the
> print...
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> HI Eric, I had a sample pack of 8.5 x 11, looks like a smeared number
> on it-
> 25CZF1T38?
>
> My tests were with CKK3-MK, and Piezotones which is an MK also.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
> Photo " <e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>>
>> NO, NO, I think I have another idea. ARE you using MK or PK? I ran
> my test
>> with MK. I remember my Piezotones did not wipe off. And what lot
> number do
>> you have? I'll look around for my box and post it when I find it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>
>> 214-827-8301
>>
>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Skype : ejprinter
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
>> Tyler
>> Boley
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:20 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt
> FB mp -
>> First Weeks
>>
>>
>>
>> the posted differences are so great that there must be batch
>> inconsistancies. Mine is like Eric's- tough stuff.
>> I tried to find them at PMA, but the Ilford booth clearly wanted
>> nothing to do with them, and then we couldn't find them in that
>> fiasco. Apparently they were there somewhere.
>> Tyler
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
>> Photo " <e.neilsen2@> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the
>> print...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> ~-->
> Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
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> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
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>

On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> HI Eric, I had a sample pack of 8.5 x 11, looks like a smeared number
> on it-
> 25CZF1T38?
>
> My tests were with CKK3-MK, and Piezotones which is an MK also.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
> Photo " <e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>>
>> NO, NO, I think I have another idea. ARE you using MK or PK? I ran
> my test
>> with MK. I remember my Piezotones did not wipe off. And what lot
> number do
>> you have? I'll look around for my box and post it when I find it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>
>> 214-827-8301
>>
>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Skype : ejprinter
>>
>>   _____
>>
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
>> Tyler
>> Boley
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:20 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt
> FB mp -
>> First Weeks
>>
>>
>>
>> the posted differences are so great that there must be batch
>> inconsistancies. Mine is like Eric's- tough stuff.
>> I tried to find them at PMA, but the Ilford booth clearly wanted
>> nothing to do with them, and then we couldn't find them in that
>> fiasco. Apparently they were there somewhere.
>> Tyler
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
>> Photo " <e.neilsen2@> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the
>> print...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>

On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:45 PM, Carl Schofield wrote:

> What are the sources of this paper?  Are these beta or production
> materials?  I vaguely recall hearing something about different
> versions of this paper with quite different coatings and dmax
> (John?), but all using MK.
>
> Carl
>
> On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:
>
>> HI Eric, I had a sample pack of 8.5 x 11, looks like a smeared number
>> on it-
>> 25CZF1T38?
>>
>> My tests were with CKK3-MK, and Piezotones which is an MK also.
>> Tyler
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
>> Photo " <e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> NO, NO, I think I have another idea. ARE you using MK or PK? I ran
>> my test
>>> with MK. I remember my Piezotones did not wipe off. And what lot
>> number do
>>> you have? I'll look around for my box and post it when I find it.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>>
>>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>>
>>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>>
>>> 214-827-8301
>>>
>>> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype : ejprinter
>>>
>>>   _____
>>>
>>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>>> Tyler
>>> Boley
>>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:20 PM
>>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt
>> FB mp -
>>> First Weeks
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> the posted differences are so great that there must be batch
>>> inconsistancies. Mine is like Eric's- tough stuff.
>>> I tried to find them at PMA, but the Ilford booth clearly wanted
>>> nothing to do with them, and then we couldn't find them in that
>>> fiasco. Apparently they were there somewhere.
>>> Tyler
>>>
>>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
>>> Photo " <e.neilsen2@> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the
>>> print...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
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> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
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> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
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>
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>
>
>
>
>

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Carl
Schofield
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 4:45 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 

What are the sources of this paper? Are these beta or production 
materials? I vaguely recall hearing something about different 
versions of this paper with quite different coatings and dmax 
(John?), but all using MK.

Carl

On Mar 14, 2007, at 5:36 PM, Tyler Boley wrote:

> HI Eric, I had a sample pack of 8.5 x 11, looks like a smeared number
> on it-
> 25CZF1T38?
>
> My tests were with CKK3-MK, and Piezotones which is an MK also.
> Tyler
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen
> Photo " <e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>>
>> NO, NO, I think I have another idea. ARE you using MK or PK? I ran
> my test
>> with MK. I remember my Piezotones did not wipe off. And what lot
> number do
>> you have? I'll look around for my box and post it when I find it.
>>
>>
>>
>> Eric Neilsen Photography
>>
>> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>>
>> Dallas, TX 75226
>>
>> 214-827-8301
>>
>> http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com
>>
>>
>>
>> Skype : ejprinter
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Tyler
>> Boley
>> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 12:20 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt
> FB mp -
>> First Weeks
>>
>>
>>
>> the posted differences are so great that there must be batch
>> inconsistancies. Mine is like Eric's- tough stuff.
>> I tried to find them at PMA, but the Ilford booth clearly wanted
>> nothing to do with them, and then we couldn't find them in that
>> fiasco. Apparently they were there somewhere.
>> Tyler
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>> eThePrint@yahoogrou <mailto:eThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com, "Eric
Neilsen
>> Photo " <e.neilsen2@> wrote:
>>>
>>> I think I could scratch them off too if I was trying to etch the
>> print...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

----- Original Message ----
From: Howard Shaw <glassman@btinternet.com>
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:48:07 PM
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp - First Weeks









  


    
            Steve Kale wrote:

> If I just run my finger nail across a patch (from paper white, through the

> patch to paper white) all the ink lifts off leaving paper white.

> 

Exactly the same here. The ink (Eboni) is just sitting on the surface 

and not sinking in at all. Perhaps a photo black would work better?



Howard



    
  

    
    




<!--

On Mar 15, 2007, at 8:13 AM, John Custodio wrote:

> I have batch # 27AZF2T36, letter size 15 sheet box. No ink scratch  
> off. I'm using Epson K3 inks with matte black. I'm observing scuff  
> marks in very dark areas if I take my finger and rub the print.  
> Otherwise, the surface seems fairly durable. Dmax is somewhat low,  
> around 1.60 - 1.62 using Studio Print.
> -John
>
> ----- Original Message ----
> From: Howard Shaw <glassman@btinternet.com>
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2007 5:48:07 PM
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)   
> Matt FB mp - First Weeks
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>             Steve Kale wrote:
>
>> If I just run my finger nail across a patch (from paper white,  
>> through the
>
>> patch to paper white) all the ink lifts off leaving paper white.
>
>>
>
> Exactly the same here. The ink (Eboni) is just sitting on the surface
>
> and not sinking in at all. Perhaps a photo black would work better?
>
>
>
> Howard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
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> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
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On Mar 15, 2007, at 9:48 AM, andywebsterus wrote:

> How long are you leaving it to dry?  I have some prints here made two
> weeks ago (Eboni) and it's stuck tight; can't get the ink off without
> damaging the surface.  Batch 28BZF1T88 (although that is a bit
> smudged!)
> Andy
>
>
>
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
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>

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Savoia
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
> mp - First Weeks
> 
> I scratch tested a print I made in November at the beginning of this
> thread, scratched right off.
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 9:48 AM, andywebsterus wrote:
> 
> > How long are you leaving it to dry?  I have some prints here made two
> > weeks ago (Eboni) and it's stuck tight; can't get the ink off without
> > damaging the surface.  Batch 28BZF1T88 (although that is a bit
> > smudged!)
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
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> >
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> >
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> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
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> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
>

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric
Neilsen
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:34 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 

I think that besides looking at just the PK or MK portion of the ink sets,
we need to think about the WHOLE package. There will be some change in the
ink sets ability to bond as a set rather than just individual parts. So
Mark, I recall you saying you use portfolio black and I use museum black
with Piezo tones and you also used selenium and I sepia. Mine sticks like
crazy and your's is wiping off months later. Steve claims that his K3 set is
wiping off, is that an MK or PK based K3 set? I missed his reply to that. I
don't use MIS so I have no direct reference prints to check their stickiness
within or as an exclusive ink set. I still need to find that little white
box : ( for the lot number, but I suspect that Harmon already knows which
lot went to what reps. 

Eric Neilsen Photography
4101 Commerce Street
Suite 9
Dallas, TX 75226
http://e.neilsen. <http://e.neilsen.home.att.net> home.att.net
http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com
Skype ejprinter
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Savoia
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 9:00 AM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
> mp - First Weeks
> 
> I scratch tested a print I made in November at the beginning of this
> thread, scratched right off.
> Mark
> 
> On Mar 15, 2007, at 9:48 AM, andywebsterus wrote:
> 
> > How long are you leaving it to dry? I have some prints here made two
> > weeks ago (Eboni) and it's stuck tight; can't get the ink off without
> > damaging the surface. Batch 28BZF1T88 (although that is a bit
> > smudged!)
> > Andy
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------
> > ~-->
> > Check out the new improvements in Yahoo! Groups email.
> > http://us.click.
<http://us.click.yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM>
yahoo.com/4It09A/fOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> > ----------------------------------------------------------
> > ~->
> >
> > Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
> > resources as they are often being updated.
> >
> > http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> > If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
> > wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by
> > visiting this same page.
> >
> > Please follow these basic guidelines:
> > - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
> > to keep them short.
> > - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
> > flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed
> > from the membership without notice.
> > - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
> > B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
> > removed from the membership.
> > - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules
> > and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the
> > group Owner and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines"
> > in the Files section:
> > http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> > BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE
> > "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL
> > NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,
> > CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,
> > DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER
> > INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL
> > BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF
> > SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE
> > THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
> > OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
> > CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO
> > GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> > PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> they are often being updated.
> 
> http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> page.
> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> section:
> http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> 
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Greg
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 10:51 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Eric Neilsen" 
<e.neilsen2@...> wrote:
>
> I think that besides looking at just the PK or MK portion of the ink 
sets,
> we need to think about the WHOLE package. 

Eric, 

You bring up a very important point. Not all inksets stick to papers 
the same. Just like not all matte black inks have the same dmax on a 
certain paper. The ink paper relationship may be a complex one at best, 
and with HP and Canon making pigment printers, which inkset do you 
market for? It used to be simple, make the paper work with the Epson 
pigments and you will capture the largest crowd. Now....?

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Gledhill
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 11:55 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 

Whether or not this helps - the batches numbers I've seen referred to in 
this thread cover manufacturing over a period of several months. They 
may have changed their batch numbering system since I left Ilford 20 
years ago - but I suspect not!!! The ones starting with 25 are the 
oldest - 28 are the newest. Are the newer batch numbers the ones 
accepting the ink better?
Steve Gledhill

John Custodio wrote:
>
> I have batch # 27AZF2T36, letter size 15 sheet box. No ink scratch 
> off. I'm using Epson K3 inks with matte black. I'm observing scuff 
> marks in very dark areas if I take my finger and rub the print. 
> Otherwise, the surface seems fairly durable. Dmax is somewhat low, 
> around 1.60 - 1.62 using Studio Print.
> -John
>


____________________________________________________ 

Yahoo! Photos is now offering a quality print service from just 7p a photo.
http://uk.photos. <http://uk.photos.yahoo.com> yahoo.com

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Steve Gledhill <stephengledhill@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:55:04 +0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 
 
 

Whether or not this helps - the batches numbers I've seen referred to in
this thread cover manufacturing over a period of several months.  They
may have changed their batch numbering system since I left Ilford 20
years ago - but I suspect not!!!  The ones starting with 25 are the
oldest - 28 are the newest.  Are the newer batch numbers the ones
accepting the ink better?
Steve Gledhill



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Howard Shaw <glassman@...>
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2007 22:05:35 +0000
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB mp -
First Weeks

 
 
 

Carl Schofield wrote:
 > What are the sources of this paper?  Are these beta or production
 > materials?  I vaguely recall hearing something about different
 > versions of this paper with quite different coatings and dmax
 > (John?), but all using MK.
 >

Mine was a sample pack of A4 from SpeedGraphic in the UK, batch number
28BZF1T88. Not advertised as a beta version. The user instructions say
to use matte black ink only. All the UT7 inks, not just Eboni come
straight off with a gentle nail stroke.

http://www.harman-inkjet.com/Webfiles/2007115145653884.pdf

Howard

 
 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Eric Neilsen <e.neilsen2@...>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photo
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:34:28 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 
 
 

I think that besides looking at just the PK or MK portion of the ink sets,
we need to think about the WHOLE package. There will be some change in the
ink sets ability to bond as a set rather than just individual parts. So
Mark, I recall you saying you use portfolio black and I use museum black
with Piezo tones and you also used selenium and I sepia. Mine sticks like
crazy and your's is wiping off months later. Steve claims that his K3 set is
wiping off, is that an MK or PK based K3 set? I missed his reply to that. I
don't use MIS so I have no direct reference prints to check their stickiness
within or as an exclusive ink set. I still need to find that little white
box : ( for the lot number, but I suspect that Harmon already knows which
lot went to what reps. 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Kale
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:22 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 

Mine was Eboni and the other K3s - all scratched off.

From: Eric Neilsen <e.neilsen2@worldnet
<mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photo
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 09:34:28 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

I think that besides looking at just the PK or MK portion of the ink sets,
we need to think about the WHOLE package. There will be some change in the
ink sets ability to bond as a set rather than just individual parts. So
Mark, I recall you saying you use portfolio black and I use museum black
with Piezo tones and you also used selenium and I sepia. Mine sticks like
crazy and your's is wiping off months later. Steve claims that his K3 set is
wiping off, is that an MK or PK based K3 set? I missed his reply to that. I
don't use MIS so I have no direct reference prints to check their stickiness
within or as an exclusive ink set. I still need to find that little white
box : ( for the lot number, but I suspect that Harmon already knows which
lot went to what reps. 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@...>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2007 16:36:39 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 
 
 

Your K3 set is MK Epson?

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype : ejprinter



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Kale
Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:58 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 

Eboni MK in the K slot. Epson K3 inks in all the other slots. All scratch
off.





[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mar 16, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Eric Neilsen Photo wrote:

> Perhaps, I missed something here, but Eboni MK is being used by  
> those with
> problems, and Epson K3 inks, with MK are being used by those without
> problems. Also the portfolio black is being used in the Piezo set
> experiencing problems, and museum black in a set with out problems?
>
>
>
> I would not look at the paper as having an issue with the possible  
> exception
> of an instruction that states ONLY Epson K3 MK ink should be used  
> with this
> paper. It also leads me to question what is in those other black  
> inks that
> are being used in the MK position.  Is it an issue where the paper was
> designed to receive that formulation best and the others, as marginal
> players, secondly or not at all?
>
>
>
>
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
>
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> 214-827-8301
>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
>
>
> Skype : ejprinter
>
>   _____
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> Steve
> Kale
> Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:58 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  
> Matt FB
> mp - First Weeks
>
>
>
> Eboni MK in the K slot. Epson K3 inks in all the other slots. All  
> scratch
> off.
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor -------------------- 
> ~-->
> Great things are happening at Yahoo! Groups.  See the new email  
> design.
> http://us.click.yahoo.com/lOt0.A/hOaOAA/yQLSAA/ucIolB/TM
> -------------------------------------------------------------------- 
> ~->
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines”  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@...>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:21:54 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 
 
 

Perhaps, I missed something here, but Eboni MK is being used by those with
problems, and Epson K3 inks, with MK are being used by those without
problems. Also the portfolio black is being used in the Piezo set
experiencing problems, and museum black in a set with out problems?

I would not look at the paper as having an issue with the possible exception
of an instruction that states ONLY Epson K3 MK ink should be used with this
paper. It also leads me to question what is in those other black inks that
are being used in the MK position.  Is it an issue where the paper was
designed to receive that formulation best and the others, as marginal
players, secondly or not at all?

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype : ejprinter



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Kale
Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 2:28 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 

All the other Epson K3 inks scratch off. I don¹t know. The paper is too
lightweight for my liking and the blacks are weak versus HPR. I doubt I¹ll
be buying any more but I do look forward to the other stuff this company
supposedly has coming down the pipe...

From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@worldnet
<mailto:e.neilsen2%40worldnet.att.net> .att.net>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 12:21:54 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

Perhaps, I missed something here, but Eboni MK is being used by those with
problems, and Epson K3 inks, with MK are being used by those without
problems. Also the portfolio black is being used in the Piezo set
experiencing problems, and museum black in a set with out problems?

I would not look at the paper as having an issue with the possible exception
of an instruction that states ONLY Epson K3 MK ink should be used with this
paper. It also leads me to question what is in those other black inks that
are being used in the MK position. Is it an issue where the paper was
designed to receive that formulation best and the others, as marginal
players, secondly or not at all?

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenp <http://ericneilsenphotography.com> hotography.com

Skype : ejprinter

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@...>
Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:04:33 -0500
To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)  Matt FB
mp - First Weeks

 
 
 

Steve, All the other inks with YOUR set up, of a non Epson MK, along with
the other two K3 blacks scratch off. OK, but I got no scratch off at all
with ALL 3 of the K3 blacks with the MK ink. Set of inks may or may not be
interchangeable with no ill affect to the WHOLE set. If you are not using MK
in the K3 ink set, one can no longer say that the K3 inks scratch off, SET
K3/Eboni MK did. 

Curious if you run a cleaning cart in between your Epson ink or if it has
been so long as to not be an issue. How many of those other that had
problems had run a cleaning cart any time close to testing this paper? I
don¹t own stock or any other investment in Harmon, Ilford, etc. just
curious. 

Eric Neilsen Photography

4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9

Dallas, TX 75226

214-827-8301

http://ericneilsenphotography.com

Skype : ejprinter




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

On Mar 16, 2007, at 4:23 PM, Steve Kale wrote:

> No cleaning cart ever used on this machine. (Epson 4800) As you  
> note, I can
> not test Epson MK.  But I have tested all the other K3 inks with  
> this paper
> and they scratch off rather easily.  As does MIS Eboni.
>
>
>
> From: Eric Neilsen Photo <e.neilsen2@...>
> Organization: Eric Neilsen Photography
> Reply-To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2007 15:04:33 -0500
> To: <DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: RE: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)   
> Matt FB
> mp - First Weeks
>
>
>
>
>
> Steve, All the other inks with YOUR set up, of a non Epson MK,  
> along with
> the other two K3 blacks scratch off. OK, but I got no scratch off  
> at all
> with ALL 3 of the K3 blacks with the MK ink. Set of inks may or may  
> not be
> interchangeable with no ill affect to the WHOLE set. If you are not  
> using MK
> in the K3 ink set, one can no longer say that the K3 inks scratch  
> off, SET
> K3/Eboni MK did.
>
> Curious if you run a cleaning cart in between your Epson ink or if  
> it has
> been so long as to not be an issue. How many of those other that had
> problems had run a cleaning cart any time close to testing this  
> paper? I
> don’t own stock or any other investment in Harmon, Ilford, etc. just
> curious.
>
> Eric Neilsen Photography
>
> 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
>
> Dallas, TX 75226
>
> 214-827-8301
>
> http://ericneilsenphotography.com
>
> Skype : ejprinter

> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mark
> Savoia
> Sent: Friday, March 16, 2007 12:34 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W) Matt FB
> mp - First Weeks
> 
> I just got a sample pack from my rep of the newest batch, I will run
> some tests and see if this is any different from November's batch.
> According to Harman, it should work well with all pigment and dye
> based inks. Perhaps they will have to revise that.
> 
> Mark (Piezo with portfolio black)
> 
> On Mar 16, 2007, at 1:21 PM, Eric Neilsen Photo wrote:
> 
> > Perhaps, I missed something here, but Eboni MK is being used by
> > those with
> > problems, and Epson K3 inks, with MK are being used by those without
> > problems. Also the portfolio black is being used in the Piezo set
> > experiencing problems, and museum black in a set with out problems?
> >
> >
> >
> > I would not look at the paper as having an issue with the possible
> > exception
> > of an instruction that states ONLY Epson K3 MK ink should be used
> > with this
> > paper. It also leads me to question what is in those other black
> > inks that
> > are being used in the MK position.  Is it an issue where the paper was
> > designed to receive that formulation best and the others, as marginal
> > players, secondly or not at all?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Eric Neilsen Photography
> >
> > 4101 Commerce Street, Suite 9
> >
> > Dallas, TX 75226
> >
> > 214-827-8301
> >
> > http://ericneilsenphotography.com
> >
> >
> >
> > Skype : ejprinter
> >
> >   _____
> >
> > From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
> > Steve
> > Kale
> > Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2007 4:58 PM
> > To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: New Harman Technologies (Ilford B&W)
> > Matt FB
> > mp - First Weeks
> >
> >
> >
> > Eboni MK in the K slot. Epson K3 inks in all the other slots. All
> > scratch
> > off.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
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> 
> 
> 
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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> 
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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> 
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> "OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
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>

>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "dmdctusa"
> <dmdornctusa@> wrote:
> >
> > I think that after a week of testing I have found Nirvana (or maybe 
> > Near Nirvana, time will tell).  
> 
> I can't believe that I'm so late getting this done, but I finally got
> my sample of the Harman MATT FB Mp paper tested. The number on my
> packet above the UPC bar code is 27C2F1T44.
> 
> I'm comparing directly to HPR, printing with a 7600 using PiezoTones
> with portfolio black, driven with StudioPrint, 2880, bi-directional. I
> printed the same image with the same settings on both HPR and Harman.
> 
> I agree with you that this is an excellent matte paper. It's
> beautifully smooth and beautifully sharp. It's also beautifully white
> giving a more neutral print compared to the warmer HPR print.
> 
> Unlike others, I find the printed surface fairly robust, at least as
> scuff and flake resistant as HPR if not more so. I couldn't get the
> ink to come off at all, and had to resort to fingernails to scratch
> it. When I rubbed with the pad of my thumb I got more scuffing from
> HPR than Harman.
> 
> As to Dmax, I find the HPR and Harman about equal. I lost access to a
> densitometer so I can't give numbers unfortunately. But visually I
> wouldn't give a nickel for the difference. 
> 
> I think this paper holds promise and would be a welcome addition to
> the marketplace. I suspect that it could give HPR a serious challenge,
> especially for photographers. I agree with what Tyler said weeks ago,
> with this paper it's all about the image. For that reason alone,
> photographers are going to like it.
>