Apple Logic Pro /LogicExpress Discussion

Okay, I have been to 3 apple store's in the past month: my home 
store in the San Dogg, Santa Monica, and now in Des Moines, Ia(yes, 
Des Moines, I'm visiting my parents for xmas) and I have not been 
able to try out Logic Pro in any of them because they don't have it 
loaded. They have logic express and garageband and soundtrack, but 
thats it.

Maybe because they don't have pro software uploaded to their 
machines? No, all of them had Final Cut HD and DVD studio pro on 
them.  I asked why they don't and got into a long discussion with 
the manager at the Des Moines store where he ended up offering me a 
job because they don't have anyone in Iowa who knows anything about 
Macs. I guess the core software that they load onto all of their 
computers(specified by apple) doesn't include logic pro.

The reason I ask is because I'm getting the 7 upgrade from Pro 6 for 
xmas from my parents(hey, one less thing I have to buy) but I 
haven't been able to try it out on any system other than the broke 
ass old dual 450 G4 at the Guitar Center in SD, so I have no real 
idea if it will run on my system or not (933 G4 1gig RAM 80gig 
system drive, 150 gig media drive/1.5 G4 Powerbook, 1gig RAM, Mackie 
firewire 70gig media drive). And I am thinking of getting a new 
powermac in the next 3 months, although my old G4 is a champ.  If 
anyone out there is running on a 933 or a 1Ghz G4 give me a heads 
up. Sorry for the ramble.

I'm sure it will run.  I'm running an old 450 mhz powermac upgraded to 
a mercury extreme card that is running at 1.2 ghz tops, and possible 
800 or 1 ghz (can't remember at the moment how I ended up setting the 
jumpers).

I haven't really put it through its paces at all, but I have run 
ultrabeat and sculpture, which I understand are 2 of the plugs with the 
biggest overhead.

Michael

PS:  hello logic cafe folks!

On Dec 22, 2004, at 1:38 PM, dewhastme wrote:

>
>
> Okay, I have been to 3 apple store's in the past month: my home
> store in the San Dogg, Santa Monica, and now in Des Moines, Ia(yes,
> Des Moines, I'm visiting my parents for xmas) and I have not been
> able to try out Logic Pro in any of them because they don't have it
> loaded. They have logic express and garageband and soundtrack, but
> thats it.
>
> Maybe because they don't have pro software uploaded to their
> machines? No, all of them had Final Cut HD and DVD studio pro on
> them.  I asked why they don't and got into a long discussion with
> the manager at the Des Moines store where he ended up offering me a
> job because they don't have anyone in Iowa who knows anything about
> Macs. I guess the core software that they load onto all of their
> computers(specified by apple) doesn't include logic pro.
>
> The reason I ask is because I'm getting the 7 upgrade from Pro 6 for
> xmas from my parents(hey, one less thing I have to buy) but I
> haven't been able to try it out on any system other than the broke
> ass old dual 450 G4 at the Guitar Center in SD, so I have no real
> idea if it will run on my system or not (933 G4 1gig RAM 80gig
> system drive, 150 gig media drive/1.5 G4 Powerbook, 1gig RAM, Mackie
> firewire 70gig media drive). And I am thinking of getting a new
> powermac in the next 3 months, although my old G4 is a champ.  If
> anyone out there is running on a 933 or a 1Ghz G4 give me a heads
> up. Sorry for the ramble.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

If I had to guess I would say:

a - the dongle is too easy a target for theft

b - the whole pro line is too hard to demo

-- 
                       | In theory, there is no difference between 
 http://www.xfade.com/ | theory and practice. In practice, there is.
     cbm@...      |               - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

GarageBand is for the masses, not serious composers. 
Apple will push what will market the most revenue for
them first.

Mitchell

--- dewhastme <dewhastme@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> Okay, I have been to 3 apple store's in the past
> month: my home 
> store in the San Dogg, Santa Monica, and now in Des
> Moines, Ia(yes, 
> Des Moines, I'm visiting my parents for xmas) and I
> have not been 
> able to try out Logic Pro in any of them because
> they don't have it 
> loaded. They have logic express and garageband and
> soundtrack, but 
> thats it.
> 
> Maybe because they don't have pro software uploaded
> to their 
> machines? No, all of them had Final Cut HD and DVD
> studio pro on 
> them.  I asked why they don't and got into a long
> discussion with 
> the manager at the Des Moines store where he ended
> up offering me a 
> job because they don't have anyone in Iowa who knows
> anything about 
> Macs. I guess the core software that they load onto
> all of their 
> computers(specified by apple) doesn't include logic
> pro.
> 
> The reason I ask is because I'm getting the 7
> upgrade from Pro 6 for 
> xmas from my parents(hey, one less thing I have to
> buy) but I 
> haven't been able to try it out on any system other
> than the broke 
> ass old dual 450 G4 at the Guitar Center in SD, so I
> have no real 
> idea if it will run on my system or not (933 G4 1gig
> RAM 80gig 
> system drive, 150 gig media drive/1.5 G4 Powerbook,
> 1gig RAM, Mackie 
> firewire 70gig media drive). And I am thinking of
> getting a new 
> powermac in the next 3 months, although my old G4 is
> a champ.  If 
> anyone out there is running on a 933 or a 1Ghz G4
> give me a heads 
> up. Sorry for the ramble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
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I've been to the one in Tokyo in April and they had an upstairs Pro 
Lounge with everything setup and ready to go. With keyboard, speakers 
everything. Of course that was Logic 6 at the time, but hey, why 
should they not have 7?

Cheers
Hans
-- 
My christmas present to you all:
http://www.hanshafner.de/booboo

On 12/22/04 1:38 PM, "dewhastme" <dewhastme@...> wrote:

> 
> 
> Okay, I have been to 3 apple store's in the past month: my home
> store in the San Dogg, Santa Monica, and now in Des Moines, Ia(yes,
> Des Moines, I'm visiting my parents for xmas) and I have not been
> able to try out Logic Pro in any of them because they don't have it
> loaded. They have logic express and garageband and soundtrack, but
> thats it.
> 

Logic Pro is a pro application. The Apple Stores are based on a mall-type
consumer mentality. Very few consumers would want to drop $1000 for a pro
audio application. I'm sure Apple doesn't have Final Cut Pro or DVD Studio
Pro or Shake loaded in the stores either. Just over the heads of who Apple
is usually catering to in the Apple Stores.

Not for nothing, if you have been able to have access to Logic Express, you
really have all the demo you need for Logic Pro. The two softwares function
pretty much exactly the same. You get more of some things with the pro
version, but to see Logic Pro Express work is usually sufficient to see how
Pro works. 

Eddie
IMS




> Maybe because they don't have pro software uploaded to their
> machines? No, all of them had Final Cut HD and DVD studio pro on
> them.  I asked why they don't and got into a long discussion with
> the manager at the Des Moines store where he ended up offering me a
> job because they don't have anyone in Iowa who knows anything about
> Macs. I guess the core software that they load onto all of their
> computers(specified by apple) doesn't include logic pro.
> 
> The reason I ask is because I'm getting the 7 upgrade from Pro 6 for
> xmas from my parents(hey, one less thing I have to buy) but I
> haven't been able to try it out on any system other than the broke
> ass old dual 450 G4 at the Guitar Center in SD, so I have no real
> idea if it will run on my system or not (933 G4 1gig RAM 80gig
> system drive, 150 gig media drive/1.5 G4 Powerbook, 1gig RAM, Mackie
> firewire 70gig media drive). And I am thinking of getting a new
> powermac in the next 3 months, although my old G4 is a champ.  If
> anyone out there is running on a 933 or a 1Ghz G4 give me a heads
> up. Sorry for the ramble.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

--

Hey again -

I am pretty much forced to run my cables to my monitors along with my 
inputs to the digi001 along one wall in parallel, and I have a hum in 
my monitors as a result.  (the cables are also not the best probably, 
so that may be an additional consideration.)  the distance is 20 feet 
max, probably closer to 15.

thinking of dispatching with this hum once and for all as a birthday 
present to myself.  any advice on the best (and cheapest) way to do so? 
  are there cables that are well-shielded enough to remain silent under 
these conditions, or do I need some kind of hum-cancelling solution?

Thanks -

Michael

Le 28-déc.-04, à 16:02, Michael Tuminello a écrit :

> Hey again -
>
>  I am pretty much forced to run my cables to my monitors along with my
>  inputs to the digi001 along one wall in parallel, and I have a hum in
>  my monitors as a result.  (the cables are also not the best probably,
>  so that may be an additional consideration.)  the distance is 20 feet
>  max, probably closer to 15.
>
>  thinking of dispatching with this hum once and for all as a birthday
>  present to myself.  any advice on the best (and cheapest) way to do 
> so?
>    are there cables that are well-shielded enough to remain silent 
> under
>  these conditions, or do I need some kind of hum-cancelling solution?
>
>  Thanks
>

Get balanced/stereo jack cables.

Michael,

There are a lot of considerations for your situation without all of the info I will give you my best.

I foresee three scenarios from your description.

1-If they are powered audio monitors and the power cables run 
    along with the digi001 inputs and monitor inputs, 
    then you have induced line hum from the power
    cables being picked up by the inputs of the digi001. 
    or by the monitor inputs for this scenario you need 
    to use shielded balanced cables to your monitors
    and shielded balanced cables to your digi001

2-If you are talking about video monitors and the power 
    cables and digital video cables are run along with your 
    digi001 inputs then you may have digital sync buzz being 
    picked up possibly along with induced line hum 
    for this you will also need to use shielded balanced cables
    for the monitor inputs and the digi001 inputs

3-The third scenario is the worst possible. It would imply that 
    you have a ground loop between your powered monitors 
    and the source of your audio(your computer)? 
    or a ground loop between the power for anything 
    connected to your audio path
    for this you will need to make sure that anything 
    connected to your audio including your computer
    is on a common ground because not all grounded outlets 
    in a home or business are at the same ground potential
    it could be something as simple as this
You have cable TV and you also use your television for monitoring the
ntsc video which you sync to picture everytime you hook up the video 
to the tv everything hums.  discovered the ground loop was the cable tv input to my
monitor. I'm not saying this is the problem but it illustrates the example.
A similar scenario. You have your computer powered from an outlet over here
and you power your speakers from an outlet over there. Try powerring everything from
one source.


If your monitors allow for it, you can use balanced instead of unbalanced cables 
they remove common mode noise (line induced hum) This is a pretty inexpensive 
option. Otherwise you will need very expensive shielded monster cables
and they may or may not completely remove the problem.

Howard

----- Original Message ----- 
From: Michael Tuminello 
To: Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com
Sent: 12/28/2004 7:02:46 AM 
Subject: [Logic_Cafe] quick question: monitor hum


Hey again -

I am pretty much forced to run my cables to my monitors along with my 
inputs to the digi001 along one wall in parallel, and I have a hum in 
my monitors as a result.  (the cables are also not the best probably, 
so that may be an additional consideration.)  the distance is 20 feet 
max, probably closer to 15.

thinking of dispatching with this hum once and for all as a birthday 
present to myself.  any advice on the best (and cheapest) way to do so? 
  are there cables that are well-shielded enough to remain silent under 
these conditions, or do I need some kind of hum-cancelling solution?

Thanks -

Michael


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thanks a lot for the long answer.  they are powered - tannoy reveal 
active.  guess I'll look to the shielded balanced cables...

Michael

On Dec 30, 2004, at 9:39 PM, Howard Lipp wrote:

> Michael,
>  
> There are a lot of considerations for your situation without all of 
> the info I will give you my best.
>  
> I foresee three scenarios from your description.
>  
> 1-If they are powered audio monitors and the power cables run
>      along with the digi001 inputs and monitor inputs,
>      then you have induced line hum from the power
>     cables being picked up by the inputs of the digi001.
>      or by the monitor inputs for this scenario you need
>      to use shielded balanced cables to your monitors
>     and shielded balanced cables to your digi001
>  
> 2-If you are talking about video monitors and the power
>      cables and digital video cables are run along with your
>      digi001 inputs then you may have digital sync buzz being
>      picked up possibly along with induced line hum
>      for this you will also need to use shielded balanced cables
>     for the monitor inputs and the digi001 inputs
>  
> 3-The third scenario is the worst possible. It would imply that
>      you have a ground loop between your powered monitors
>      and the source of your audio(your computer)?
>      or a ground loop between the power for anything
>      connected to your audio path
>     for this you will need to make sure that anything
>      connected to your audio including your computer
>     is on a common ground because not all grounded outlets
>      in a home or business are at the same ground potential
>     it could be something as simple as this
> You have cable TV and you also use your television for monitoring the
> ntsc video which you sync to picture everytime you hook up the video
>  to the tv everything hums. discovered the ground loop was the cable 
> tv input to my
> monitor. I'm not saying this is the problem but it illustrates the 
> example.
> A similar scenario. You have your computer powered from an outlet over 
> here
> and you power your speakers from an outlet over there. Try powerring 
> everything from
> one source.
>  
>  
> If your monitors allow for it, you can use balanced instead of 
> unbalanced cables
>  they remove common mode noise (line induced hum) This is a pretty 
> inexpensive
>  option. Otherwise you will need very expensive shielded monster cables
> and they may or may not completely remove the problem.
>  
> Howard
> ----- Original Message -----
>  From: Michael Tuminello
> To: Logic_Cafe@...m
> Sent: 12/28/2004 7:02:46 AM
>  Subject: [Logic_Cafe] quick question: monitor hum
>
> Hey again -
>
> I am pretty much forced to run my cables to my monitors along with my
>  inputs to the digi001 along one wall in parallel, and I have a hum in
>  my monitors as a result.  (the cables are also not the best probably,
>  so that may be an additional consideration.)  the distance is 20 feet
>  max, probably closer to 15.
>
> thinking of dispatching with this hum once and for all as a birthday
>  present to myself.  any advice on the best (and cheapest) way to do 
> so?
>    are there cables that are well-shielded enough to remain silent 
> under
>  these conditions, or do I need some kind of hum-cancelling solution?
>
> Thanks -
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
>
> ADVERTISEMENT
> <image.tiff>
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> 	• 	To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/
>  
> 	• 	 To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> Logic_Cafe-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>  
> 	• 	 Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of 
> Service.
>
>

--- Michael Tuminello <mt@...> wrote:

> 
> thanks a lot for the long answer.  they are powered
> - tannoy reveal 
> active.  guess I'll look to the shielded balanced
> cables...
> 

If you are referring to the cables to your Tannoy,
aren't they already balanced? i.e. 3 conductor XLR
cable?  JP

may be, but I don't think they are shielded.  they are XLRs.  the 
balanced/unbalanced cables thing is one of those things I haven't 
gotten around to looking up yet, so I'm not sure what that means.  I'm 
more of a musician than a studio guy - I learn what I need to learn as 
I go...

thanks for the help.

Michael

On Jan 2, 2005, at 1:52 AM, james page wrote:

>
>
> --- Michael Tuminello <mt@...> wrote:
>
>>
>> thanks a lot for the long answer.  they are powered
>> - tannoy reveal
>> active.  guess I'll look to the shielded balanced
>> cables...
>>
>
> If you are referring to the cables to your Tannoy,
> aren't they already balanced? i.e. 3 conductor XLR
> cable?  JP
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>

--- Michael Tuminello <mt@...> wrote:

> may be, but I don't think they are shielded.  they
> are XLRs.  the 
> balanced/unbalanced cables thing is one of those
> things I haven't 
> gotten around to looking up yet, so I'm not sure
> what that means.  I'm 
> more of a musician than a studio guy - I learn what
> I need to learn as 
> I go...
> 
Just to clarify, XLRs, unless they have been modified
which is very unlikely, are balanced so I din't think
they contribute to your hum problem.  JP

From: james page <jimmymio@...>

>Just to clarify, XLRs, unless they have been modified
>which is very unlikely, are balanced so I din't think
>they contribute to your hum problem.  JP

I missed the beginning of this thread, but you should be able to get 
rid of the hum even if the runs to your Tannoys were unbalanced. And 
I assume you're talking about electrical hum, not acoustic hum (i.e. 
not a vibrating power supply). I also assume that the hum stops when 
you turn off the computer monitor, right?

First try moving the monitors away from the speakers (or just try one 
first). If the hum goes away, the solution is (pick one): buy an LCD 
monitor to replace your CRT; move your speakers farther away from the 
monitor (which is hard to do, of course); get rid of these speakers 
and buy some that are AV-shielded; or pay more than these speakers 
are worth to have them shielded.

Somehow the LCD monitor seems the most practical answer. :)

If it's not just a case of the monitor's proximity to the speakers - 
and usually the problem with un-AV-shielded speakers is that the 
video gets messed up, not so much that you get hum - then check out 
your cable run. It's unlikely that the video cable is going to induce 
hum into the audio cables, whether or not they're balanced. It's much 
more likely that  your audio cables are going near a power supply. If 
you have to intersect any power cables, do so at right angles.

Or maybe you have a ground loop, which means there are multiple paths 
to ground. First , plug everything into the same power strip. If that 
doesn't do it, well, you're not supposed to lift the grounds (i.e. 
use a 3-conductor > 2-conductor adapter) to get rid of hum, but 
everyone does it. Just be aware that if there's ever a short in the 
line and you happen to be holding the monitor or speakers between 
your legs, the electricity is going through your nuts instead of the 
ground wires you've lifted.

  CRT monitors operate at high voltages and have power caps that hold 
those voltages for a long time, so I'd lift the powered monitors' 
grounds and not the monitor's grounds.
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

>Just to clarify, XLRs, unless they have been modified
>which is very unlikely, are balanced so I din't think
>they contribute to your hum problem.  JP

Note that having three conductors doesn't necessarily mean that the 
circuit is balanced. The sending and receiving device must both be 
balanced for the circuit to be balanced. It's still a good idea to 
use the third wire in an unbalanced circuit, connected at one end as 
a shield, but it won't give you the same benefit as a balanced 
circuit.

Some balanced inputs are very unhappy being fed with unbalanced 
signals. It's unlikely that a home studio-level input like a Tannoy 
Reveal would be in that category, but it's possible.

Also note that balanced circuits work by reversing the phase of the 
third wire at the receiving end of the cable run, cancelling out 
noise picked up by both "negative" wires along the way. The can't 
help if noise is induced somewhere else, such as the receiving 
device's input jack.

Usually buzz is induced through the air or by a short, while hum is a 
ground loop. But not always.
-- 

Nick Batzdorf
818/905-9101, cell 590-9101, fax 905-5434

Not very many people have voted in the Logic Stability poll, but I'm curious about the results anyway. The poll can be found here: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/surveys?id=1572590

What can we say about the results, without knowing about people's setups? I'm in the "crashes all the time" camp, so I'm curious what's different about my setup from someone in the "rarely crashes" camp. To get the ball rolling, here's some info about my setup:

Hardware - 
CPU:	Dual 2.5 GHz
RAM:	2.5 GB
Disks:	74 GB SATA boot/application drive
	250 GB SATA home directory & data drive
MIDI:	emagic Unitor and AMT 8
Audio:	MOTU 896

Software - 
System 10.3.5
Pretty lean, but one "haxie" (FruitMenu. Logic was still unstable without it)

3rd Party Plugins-
Sonalksis (all)
OhmForce (most)
Pluggo
Cameleon 5000
Zebra
Phatmatik Pro
Filterscape
iZotope Trash
(I have a few more installed, but I don't use them. All pass validation)

Projects:
Most of my recent projects use several soft-synth tracks, and a few audio tracks. Sometimes, I still use external MIDI sound modules.

Misc:
I bought this computer specifically for music and photography, so it doesn't have a bunch of other stuff on it. I use my laptop for email, etc.

I've tried all the likely voodoo remedies (fixed permissions, reinstalled Logic, disk repair)

===

I'm getting very frustrated with Logic 7 stability issues, so finding out what's different with people who have a stable Logic 7 would be great.

-C

-- 
                       | In theory, there is no difference between 
 http://www.xfade.com/ | theory and practice. In practice, there is.
     cbm@...      |               - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

Chris Muir wrote:

>
> Not very many people have voted in the Logic Stability poll, but I'm 
> curious about the results anyway. The poll can be found here: 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/surveys?id=1572590
>
> What can we say about the results, without knowing about people's 
> setups? I'm in the "crashes all the time" camp, so I'm curious what's 
> different about my setup from someone in the "rarely crashes" camp. To 
> get the ball rolling, here's some info about my setup:
>
> Hardware -
> CPU:      Dual 2.5 GHz
> RAM:      2.5 GB
> Disks:      74 GB SATA boot/application drive
>       250 GB SATA home directory & data drive
> MIDI:      emagic Unitor and AMT 8
> Audio:      MOTU 896
>
> Software -
> System 10.3.5
> Pretty lean, but one "haxie" (FruitMenu. Logic was still unstable 
> without it)
>
> 3rd Party Plugins-
> Sonalksis (all)
> OhmForce (most)
> Pluggo
> Cameleon 5000
> Zebra
> Phatmatik Pro
> Filterscape
> iZotope Trash
> (I have a few more installed, but I don't use them. All pass validation)
>
> Projects:
> Most of my recent projects use several soft-synth tracks, and a few 
> audio tracks. Sometimes, I still use external MIDI sound modules.
>
> Misc:
> I bought this computer specifically for music and photography, so it 
> doesn't have a bunch of other stuff on it. I use my laptop for email, etc.
>
> I've tried all the likely voodoo remedies (fixed permissions, 
> reinstalled Logic, disk repair)
>
> ===
>
> I'm getting very frustrated with Logic 7 stability issues, so finding 
> out what's different with people who have a stable Logic 7 would be great.
>
> -C
>
> -- 
>
You've got company in  your camp-trust me.  Logic 7 crashes often enough 
where I just use L6 right now.  I can get work done in L7, but I have to 
save more often, where I've had crashless days in L6..

My projects are also a mixture of audio tracks (6 - 32), soft synths and 
samplers.  My set-up is:

Hardware:  G5 2X2, 2.5GB RAM, a fresh 160GB system drive in 2 partitions 
(no audio on this drive), a second 250GB drive for audio and samples and 
a 3rd FW400 drive for audio and samples.  Also running MOTU 828mkII with 
the latest FW drivers.  System software is 10.3.5.

My third-party plug-in list, in order from heaviest to least usage:


Kontakt/Kompakt playing back either Scarbee RSP73, or lately GPO, EWQLSO 
Silver or PMI piano libraries
Arturia MMV 2/Minimoog 2
LinPlug RMIV
Toontrack DFHS
u-he Zebra
NI B4

Sonalksis EQ and Compression
Waveshell 5.0.1b4 (yeah, I know...)
PSP VintageWarmer
SupaPhaser (great freebie!)
WaveArts Powersuite (EQ/Comp/Reverb)

In the components folder, but not getting as much use are:

NI Absynth, Battery, Reaktor, Electrik Piano, Pro 53, Intakt, Vokator, 
Spektral Delay (Absynth, Reaktor, Pro 53 and EP usage increasing as we 
speak :-) )
Buzzer
Fishfillets, until I see their future

All pass except the Fish Fillets.  Just yesterday I installed VST-AU 
Adapter 1.5.2 and Autotune.  Autotune does not pass (I need to 
re-authorize it), but it will open and run in demo mode.

I hope to see L7 become more stable with the next release, whenever that 
is.  I'd love to use it more often.

Regards,
-Michele Hobbs

On 03/01/2005, at 10:47, Chris Muir wrote:

> Not very many people have voted in the Logic Stability poll, but I'm 
> curious about the results anyway. The poll can be found here: 
> http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/surveys?id=1572590
>
> What can we say about the results, without knowing about people's 
> setups? I'm in the "crashes all the time" camp, so I'm curious what's 
> different about my setup from someone in the "rarely crashes" camp. To 
> get the ball rolling, here's some info about my setup:
>
> >snipped
>
> I'm getting very frustrated with Logic 7 stability issues, so finding 
> out what's different with people who have a stable Logic 7 would be 
> great.
>

One way I can make my Logic 7 crash consistently is by loading a 
channel strip with an EXS and playing notes before all the samples have 
loaded. This was a huge problem for me with Logic 6 and is still here. 
Just thought people should be aware of this as one of the possibilities 
of crashes.


Tom

Jon Zaremba wrote:

>Could anyone recommend a 3rd party app that will take a 60 minute file, and
>allow me to place track indexes in it and then burn directly?  I have a
>complete mix of one of my albums that i want to prepare for CD.
>
>In the past i've always just cut and spliced it up into separate files, but
>sometimes, i get a slight little pop here and there at the beginning of each
>track.
>
>What would you recommend?
>
>Thanks in Advance,
>Jon Zaremba
>
>  
>
Hi,

Roxio (or whomever) Jam should do the job, however, why are you getting 
pops?  Are you making sure that you only splice at zero crossings?

-Michele Hobbs

Hello There,

I haven't upgraded to Logic 7 yet, so i have no experience with Waveburner.
From what i've heard, it's not working too well anyways.

Could anyone recommend a 3rd party app that will take a 60 minute file, and
allow me to place track indexes in it and then burn directly?  I have a
complete mix of one of my albums that i want to prepare for CD.

In the past i've always just cut and spliced it up into separate files, but
sometimes, i get a slight little pop here and there at the beginning of each
track.

What would you recommend?

Thanks in Advance,
Jon Zaremba

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        then hire an ugly man to do it."
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I still have 4.8 in a PIII machine and 5.5 in a PIII also. For the 
most part, they're fairly stable. Been thinking about upgrading just 
because I don't wanna trail too far behind, but it's so expensive to 
just acquire the kind of problems I'm reading about day after day, 
with Mac and Logic 6 and/or 7.
Gary

gswerner2002 wrote:

>
> I still have 4.8 in a PIII machine and 5.5 in a PIII also. For the
> most part, they're fairly stable. Been thinking about upgrading just
> because I don't wanna trail too far behind, but it's so expensive to
> just acquire the kind of problems I'm reading about day after day,
> with Mac and Logic 6 and/or 7.
> Gary
>
Hi Gary,

Logic 6 has actually been pretty stable here, considering my workload.  
Like I mentioned in another post, I run quite a few effects and virtual 
instruments and don't experience nearly as many problems as people seem 
to do in Logic 7.  I guess your potential for problems depends on your 
planned hardware and what plug-ins you'll be running.

-Michele Hobbs

At 3:15 AM +0000 1/3/05, gswerner2002 wrote:
>expensive to
>just acquire the kind of problems I'm reading about day after day,
>with Mac and Logic 6 and/or 7.

Actually, Logic 6 was quite stable for me. My problems all started with Logic 7 Pro.

-C

-- 
                       | In theory, there is no difference between
 http://www.xfade.com/ | theory and practice. In practice, there is.
     cbm@...      |               - Jan L.A. van de Snepscheut

>... it's so expensive to just acquire the kind of problems I'm
> reading about day after day with Mac and Logic 6 and/or 7.


I'll join the fray and say that 6.4.1 is a gem for me.  In fact,
Logic has always been stable for me, and I came into the fray with
6.0.

FWIW, I run multiple Spectrasonics, Reaktor, a Logic synth or two,
and somewhere between 16-32 audio tracks.  I use a PCI Powercore and
have it and the host cpu breaking a sweat constantly, and that's with
a lot of tracks frozen.  4-6 busses and Sonalksis, Blue Tubes, and
Logic plugs all over the place.

In  other words, I ask a lot of a 1g G4 tower running OSX, and Logic
is up to the task, always has been.  I'm going to go out on a limb
and say that computers are incredibly sensitive little creatures
doing billions of calculations, and they respond to our personal
energy field.  I know in my own past there've been marked
correlations between my stress level in life and my computer's
ability to be stable.  I've also sat down on rigs that, in the hands
of their owners, were unstable and unpredictable, but they were model
macs once I took the helm to troubleshoot.

Not unlike the car that purrs like a kitten when the mechanic takes
it for a spin ; )


u b i k

Hi:
I second You : I already bought L7 but just for not being left in the 
future as they did with people with version 4. Logic6 seems pretty 
stable in a 450DP my partner uses , but I can´t start my job on that 
machine . I always use more than 20 instruments (mostly EXS , but 
also others) and like 12 (sometimes a lot more) audio tracks 44.1/24. 
Logic 5.5 on PC almost never crashes here. I mean : sometimes I´m 
trying a new demo pluggin and it crashes , so I forget about the 
pluggin and back to work. I also noted than my W98 system is more 
stable than my WinXP one . In XP some explorer tasks make it crash 
(very rarely ) . In W98 never crashes...OK : maybe once in a week :-)
I´m ready to buy a G5 if it will work more or less the same .

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "gswerner2002" <gswerner2002@y...> 
wrote:
> 
> I still have 4.8 in a PIII machine and 5.5 in a PIII also. For the 
> most part, they're fairly stable. Been thinking about upgrading 
just 
> because I don't wanna trail too far behind, but it's so expensive 
to 

> just acquire the kind of problems I'm reading about day after day, 
> with Mac and Logic 6 and/or 7.
> Gary

My vote: Somewhat stable

My setup:

Hardware -
General: 17" iMac
CPU:	   800MHz G4
RAM:	   768MB
Disks:   80GB  Internal
	   120GB External (FireWire)
MIDI:	   M-Audio 4x4
         Yamaha MU128
         Yamaha S80
Audio:   Tascam US-122

Software -
System 10.3.7

3rd Party Plugins-
EWQLSO

Projects:
Mostly MIDI. I use soft synths sparingly. The computer simply can't handle
the overhead.

Misc:

> 
> Logic 6 has actually been pretty stable here, considering my 
workload.  
> Like I mentioned in another post, I run quite a few effects and 
virtual 
> instruments and don't experience nearly as many problems as people 
seem 
> to do in Logic 7.  I guess your potential for problems depends on 
your 
> planned hardware and what plug-ins you'll be running.
> 
> -Michele Hobbs

I guess the irony for me is that compared to other software programs, 
Logic has my vote for the best facitily to assist the musical mind. I 
just wish the software companies would quit recreating the programs 
and fix what they already have. From there, I'm sure they can add 
more facility to the program. 
Gary

> I guess the irony for me is that compared to other software 
> programs, Logic has my vote for the best facitily to assist 
> the musical mind. I just wish the software companies would 
> quit recreating the programs and fix what they already have. 
> From there, I'm sure they can add more facility to the program. 
> Gary

Hi Gary,

I agree with that on many fronts. Logic's MIDI editing is way better than
Sonar's. Its softsynths are relatively easy to setup and use and there is a
consistent way of saving/loading patches. (That applies to effect plugs
also.)

However, Logic's "Environment" is a nightmare and setting up and accessing
the sounds of a sound module like the MU128 is an exercise that only someone
with a spare month of time should undertake. Sonar's method is dead easy.
I've recently ordered Cubase SX3 as an competitive upgrade and have already
examined its manual (in PDF format) and it also makes it easy to setup a
sound module or synth. If Cubase's MIDI editing is anywhere near as nice as
Logic's, I'll be switching. If not, I'll stick with Logic just because it is
such a productive tool - once you get it setup.

Kamm

P.S. I still haven't got my MU128 setup so that I have access to all banks
and all patches. I don't think I was stretching things much when I said it
would take about a month.

Oh yea. One other negative for Logic is that it is Mac only. That makes
everything about it more expensive and I have to say that Sonar on my WinXP
machine was virtually crash proof. I really miss that!

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, "Jon Zaremba" <jon@j...> wrote:
> Hello There,
> 
> I haven't upgraded to Logic 7 yet, so i have no experience with Waveburner.
> From what i've heard, it's not working too well anyways.
> 
> Could anyone recommend a 3rd party app that will take a 60 minute file, and
> allow me to place track indexes in it and then burn directly?  I have a
> complete mix of one of my albums that i want to prepare for CD.
> 
> In the past i've always just cut and spliced it up into separate files, but
> sometimes, i get a slight little pop here and there at the beginning of each
> track.
> 
> What would you recommend?

I use Roxio Jam, but it requires either separate files for the tracks, or SDII regions 
delimiting the tracks. I never get pops because I put a fade at the beginning and end of 
each track.

I have tried using Bias Peak for this, but it's harder to use than Logic + Jam. If you want 
one program to do this task though, Bias Peak may be it.

 - Stoney

Hi,

I'll throw mine in here.  I run Logic Pro 7 on a Titanium Powerbook 1 
GHz G4 with 1 GB RAM, 60 GB Internal HD, 120 GB LaCie D2 FW Drive and a 
Motu 828 MkII.  I have to say that it is very stable for me.  I've had 
the odd crash but that only happens about once a month or so.  It is 
not as stable as Logic 6.x was (it rarely crashed on me) but it is 
stable enough for me to get work done on it.  I had many, many 
stability problems before I had the RAM replaced on my machine.  
Luckily my RAM had a lifetime warranty on it.  Since then, it's been 
smooth sailing I have to admit.

Fernstudio

Hi,

Sorry, I forgot to mention the plugins I currently run.  I run Native 
Instruments' Komplete 2, Sonalksis (all 4 plugs), Elemental Audio 
(Firium, Equim, Neodynium, Inspector), Atmosphere, Trilogy, Stylus 
Classic, Stylus RMX, OhmForce (Mobilohm, Hematohm, Predatohm, OhmBoyz, 
Ohmygod, QuadFrohmage) in addition to the Logic plugins.  I also have 
some Kontakt-based VSTi's like QLSO Gold, QLSO Silver, StormDrum, 
Percussive Adventures 2, and Hardcore Bass. I've removed Percussive 
Adventures 2 though because it does not pass AU Validation.  All are 
working fine and I've been using Logic Pro 7 mostly because it boots up 
quicker than Logic Pro 6.

Fernstudio

On 3-Jan-05, at 10:41 AM, Fernstudio wrote:

> Hi,
>
>  I'll throw mine in here.  I run Logic Pro 7 on a Titanium Powerbook 1
>  GHz G4 with 1 GB RAM, 60 GB Internal HD, 120 GB LaCie D2 FW Drive and 
> a
>  Motu 828 MkII.  I have to say that it is very stable for me.  I've had
>  the odd crash but that only happens about once a month or so.  It is
>  not as stable as Logic 6.x was (it rarely crashed on me) but it is
>  stable enough for me to get work done on it.  I had many, many
>  stability problems before I had the RAM replaced on my machine. 
>  Luckily my RAM had a lifetime warranty on it.  Since then, it's been
>  smooth sailing I have to admit.
>
>  Fernstudio

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Fernstudio <fernstudio@t...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> Sorry, I forgot to mention the plugins I currently run.  I run Native 
> Instruments' Komplete 2, Sonalksis (all 4 plugs), Elemental Audio 
> (Firium, Equim, Neodynium, Inspector), Atmosphere, Trilogy, Stylus 
> Classic, Stylus RMX, OhmForce (Mobilohm, Hematohm, Predatohm, OhmBoyz, 
> Ohmygod, QuadFrohmage) in addition to the Logic plugins.  I also have 
> some Kontakt-based VSTi's like QLSO Gold, QLSO Silver, StormDrum, 
> Percussive Adventures 2, and Hardcore Bass. I've removed Percussive 
> Adventures 2 though because it does not pass AU Validation.  All are 
> working fine and I've been using Logic Pro 7 mostly because it boots up 
> quicker than Logic Pro 6.
> 
> Fernstudio
> 
> On 3-Jan-05, at 10:41 AM, Fernstudio wrote:
> 
> > Hi,
> >
> >  I'll throw mine in here.  I run Logic Pro 7 on a Titanium Powerbook 1
> >  GHz G4 with 1 GB RAM, 60 GB Internal HD, 120 GB LaCie D2 FW Drive and 
> > a
> >  Motu 828 MkII.  I have to say that it is very stable for me.  I've had
> >  the odd crash but that only happens about once a month or so.  It is
> >  not as stable as Logic 6.x was (it rarely crashed on me) but it is
> >  stable enough for me to get work done on it.  I had many, many
> >  stability problems before I had the RAM replaced on my machine. 
> >  Luckily my RAM had a lifetime warranty on it.  Since then, it's been
> >  smooth sailing I have to admit.
> >
> >  Fernstudio

I have to say that i have had more trouble from my G5 computer (2x2, 2gb ram) than with 
logic.  I have had ground loops, power supply over heating, and now i have a processor 
that is whinning so loud that it wakes my wife in the next room.  
Logic 7 when my computer is working seems to work fine.  I mainly use it to mix other 
artists music and then do mastering.  We have a large local hip-hop and electronic music 
scene where i live.   A lot of people do not know how to mix/master audio, but they write 
good music.  so they give me there tracks and i mix them for them.  It works fine for me.  I 
haven't had a major crash yet.  I have been using it since day 3 of its release.

> Its amazing to me that Apple would allow L7 to ship in the state that it
> is, and then not even issue an update after so many months - they are quite
> quick to correct problems with OSX. I am starting to think that Apple
> wanted to grab the software technology of Logic for Garage Band and
> Soundtrack, but I am not sure they are seriously interested in making it a
> superior product.

It could be the reason for taking over Emagic, but it's still the same team of 
people working on Logic, albeit under a different company name. The mess with 
the feedback form, the new bugs in L7 and the long time it takes to come up 
with an update, looks to me like there is some trouble sorting out technical 
strategies after the takeover. It also seems to me that a large effort for L7 
was put into replacing "classic" Emagic code with standard routines from 
Apple, which probably induced bugs without a noticeable increase in 
functionality. However this could make future development as swift as it is 
for other Apple software once things are back on track.

By the way, don't forget that Logic Platinum 5.5 and Pro 6 were also made 
under Apple management. So I do think they are interested in developing it, 
and not just stealing the technology for Garageband. It just seems the main 
goal of Pro 7.0 was to Apple-ize the software itself, and they made a bit of 
a mess of it. Seems to me as a temporary mess though.

Maurits.

> It just seems the main goal of Pro 
> 7.0 was to Apple-ize the software itself, and they made a bit 
> of a mess of it. Seems to me as a temporary mess though.

Although I haven't seen prior versions of Logic, I'd be willing to bet that
Logic will eventually become more and more "Apple-ized" and I personally
think that will be a good thing as long as they take their time and get it
right. It appears that they *are* taking their time. ;)

Kamm

> Although I haven't seen prior versions of Logic,

Well especially the "generic" things (like general dialogs etc) have changed 
in 7, which is usually the last thing to change in a new version.

> I'd be willing to bet that 
> Logic will eventually become more and more "Apple-ized" and I personally
> think that will be a good thing as long as they take their time and get it
> right. It appears that they *are* taking their time. ;)

Certainly. :o) And I'm not saying it's a good excuse for the current state of 
Logic, but it is a recognisable chain of events that does look like something 
good will come out of it. Eventually. :o)

Maurits.

Hi,

On 3-Jan-05, at 11:49 AM, GAmoore@... wrote:

>  L7 seems to take a long time to boot - updating tree or whatever. I 
> usually start it, then leave the room to make a call or get a snack 
> and come back.

Have you disabled Project Manager?  I disable it all the time.  I had 
problems under Logic 6 sometimes where it would simply get stuck 
(updating something) and I'd have to trash my prefs after killing the 
app.  I don't have problems now.  I still see a quick progress bar 
flash just before it completes booting up and immediately after the 
arrange window shows up.

>  How did you determine your RAM was the cause?

The crashes got worse and worse.  Eventually the Mac would crash on 
applications other than Logic as well (something that never happened 
before).  I decided to check it out using the hardware diagnostics 
provided by Apple on one of the CD's that came with the Mac.  When the 
RAM tests failed, I figured and hoped that that would be the end of my 
troubles.  It has been great since then.  I was a little bit miffed at 
my dealer though as I had specifically requested Kingston memory when I 
bought it.  There was some other type of memory (can't remember the 
name now but it began with an 'A').  Thankfully, it was a lifetime 
warranty and they replaced it with the Kingston memory I originally 
requested.

BTW, some people have claimed similar performance to Logic 6.  I find 
it slightly slower myself but not by much.  For me it boots up quicker 
than Logic 6 which, I believe, is because of the CoreAudio 
initialization.  I think that once a plugin is validated, the init 
process is quicker whereas Logic Pro 6 appears to go through the 
validation routines everytime.  Don't know if that's the case or not 
though.

HTH,
Fernstudio

Hi Maurits,
On 4-Jan-05, at 12:12 AM, Maurits van de Kamp wrote:

>  By the way, don't forget that Logic Platinum 5.5 and Pro 6 were also 
> made
>  under Apple management. So I do think they are interested in 
> developing it,
>  and not just stealing the technology for Garageband. It just seems 
> the main
>  goal of Pro 7.0 was to Apple-ize the software itself, and they made a 
> bit of
>  a mess of it. Seems to me as a temporary mess though.

Logic 5.5 was not developed under Apple management.  Apple bought 
Emagic shortly after Logic 5.  I had bought the Logic Platinum 5 
upgrade for Windows in spring of that year and the sale of Emagic was 
announced on July 1st.  I can't remember if the update to 5.5.1 on 
Windows came after the takeover or not but the merging of companies 
always takes a bit of time.  IIRC there was no significant update to 
Logic on Windows after that first summer.  Logic development was not 
really affected by Apple's ownership until they were working on Logic 
6.

Best regards,
Fernstudio

--- In Logic_Cafe@yahoogroups.com, Chris Muir <cbm@w...> wrote:
> 
> Not very many people have voted in the Logic Stability poll, but I'm curious about the 
results anyway. The poll can be found here: http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/
Logic_Cafe/surveys?id=1572590

My setup

-2.5GD 1GRAM(512*2)
-150GB HDD (apple original)
-Ethernal / no dial up 
-OSX 10.3.6
-A 2/6
-AMT8

Third party plugins
-Phatmatic pro (actually doesn't work well under pro 7 because of sync issue...)

Other vender software installed
-Office X
-Photoshop / illustrator

I usually use 20 to 30 softsynth tracks and 4 to 5 audio tracks under 44.1khz to write one 
song.  At least for me logic pro 7 is the most stable version of logic ever, as long as ignore 
some bugs that didn't appear on 6.  I probably had experienced crash with logic pro 7 only 
once.  I think I don't use other manufactures' stuff so that logic pro 7 is so stable.  

One thing I want it to be fixed NOW is accuracy of controlling operation from logic control.  
Seems Pro 7 sometimes doesn't receive MIDI meg from the controller so that the fader 
movements are not reflected to automation parameters
  

Tomonori
http://www.soundclick.com/tomonorimatsumura

> Chris Muir wrote:
> 
> >
> > Not very many people have voted in the Logic Stability poll, but 
I'm 
> > curious about the results anyway. The poll can be found here: 
> > http://launch.groups.yahoo.com/group/Logic_Cafe/surveys?
id=1572590
> >

I've been really busy working on a project so wasn't able to vote. 
My system is almost crash-free. I used to have scroll bar crashes, 
but learned to navigate without them until all the plugs were fixed. 
They are now.
I just finished a labour-intensive project done entirely on Logic 7 
with tons of tracks and plug-ins without a single crash.

I use a G52x2 with 2.5 gigs of Ram, OSX 10.3.6, a 160 gig internal, 
a 70 gig Raptor, Firewire 410 interface, midisport and Motu midi 
interfaces, all the Elemental audio plugs, Wave Arts Power Bundle, 
Stylus, Stylus RMX, pHATmatik pro, Reaktor, Korg Legacy, Sonalksis 
CQ1, MHC synth bundle, Albino, Zebra, Cameleon, GPO, East-West Gold, 
Percussive Adventures LE (as a VST to Au plug to pass validation)
the Kompakt, and Intakt demos, Usb's Ultra Fx, SampleTank free, 
SonikSynth, tons of Smartelectronix plugs, a couple of Ohmn Force 
plugs, Buxxer, etc.etc.

I leave my computer on all the time, and put around 12 hours a day 
on it. 

I am having some troubles with using outboard faders etc, for 
automation, but as I have just started to do that, I blame it on me, 
not Logic.

I hope those who are having crashes all the time can solve the 
problems. I freak when expensive software doesn't work.

BTW I still have a Mac 980 with Platinum 3.5 installed as an 
emergency backup, but due to Logic 7's recent track record I am 
going to retire it soon (and the 2 racks of midi modules its hooked 
up to). I still have Notator on my Atari 1040 too (circa 1994) just 
in case. Maybe I'll retire that too.

Chris--

I noticed you aren't using AMTs in your setup.  I wonder if some of my 
problems w/L7 are related to the AMTs.  For the list: Is there anyone 
with a complex setup who is using AMTs who has had exceptionally good 
or bad experiences with L7?

Also, Chris, do you have L6 installed on the same computer as L7, did 
you take it off, or did you never have it on?

Thanks,
Michael A. Levine

>> Chris Muir wrote:
>
> I've been really busy working on a project so wasn't able to vote.
> My system is almost crash-free. I used to have scroll bar crashes,
> but learned to navigate without them until all the plugs were fixed.
> They are now.
> I just finished a labour-intensive project done entirely on Logic 7
> with tons of tracks and plug-ins without a single crash.
>
> I use a G52x2 with 2.5 gigs of Ram, OSX 10.3.6, a 160 gig internal,
> a 70 gig Raptor, Firewire 410 interface, midisport and Motu midi
> interfaces, all the Elemental audio plugs, Wave Arts Power Bundle,
> Stylus, Stylus RMX, pHATmatik pro, Reaktor, Korg Legacy, Sonalksis
> CQ1, MHC synth bundle, Albino, Zebra, Cameleon, GPO, East-West Gold,
> Percussive Adventures LE (as a VST to Au plug to pass validation)
> the Kompakt, and Intakt demos, Usb's Ultra Fx, SampleTank free,
> SonikSynth, tons of Smartelectronix plugs, a couple of Ohmn Force
> plugs, Buxxer, etc.etc.
>
> I leave my computer on all the time, and put around 12 hours a day
> on it.
>
> I am having some troubles with using outboard faders etc, for
> automation, but as I have just started to do that, I blame it on me,
> not Logic.
>
> I hope those who are having crashes all the time can solve the
> problems. I freak when expensive software doesn't work.
>
> BTW I still have a Mac 980 with Platinum 3.5 installed as an
> emergency backup, but due to Logic 7's recent track record I am
> going to retire it soon (and the 2 racks of midi modules its hooked
> up to). I still have Notator on my Atari 1040 too (circa 1994) just
> in case. Maybe I'll retire that too.