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Printfix Pro and blues

Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by mamemarquees

Hello

I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile.  Most
colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all purple. I
also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple.  I tried
taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem to help
and made some of the other colors off.  I am using Winxp, the 225
patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an Epson1280.
 I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then other
colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this product).  

Any suggestions?

Scott

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by bwinkjet

Hi Scott,

If your monitor is profiled and the soft proof shows purplish blues 
then the profile is not at fault.  I would suggest you soft proof in PS 
or your imaging editor and work with HS for blues and correct the image 
on screen and then print.  If there is close correlation print to soft 
proofed screen, then the profile is doing its job.

HTH

Paul

-- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "mamemarquees" 
<mamemarquees@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Hello
> 
> I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile.  Most
> colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all purple. I
> also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple.  I tried
> taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem to help
> and made some of the other colors off.  I am using Winxp, the 225
> patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an Epson1280.
>  I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then other
> colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this product).  
> 
> Any suggestions?
> 
> Scott
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/18/06 1:33:32 PM, mamemarquees@... writes:


I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile. Most
colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all purple. I
also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple. I tried
taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem to help
and made some of the other colors off. I am using Winxp, the 225
patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an Epson1280.
I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then other
colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this product).

There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"... what you will get for results depends on a large number of factors you dont list here, as well as the ones you do. What light source are you viewing under? What images are you printing? If your combo is prone to significant magenta shift in blues, you may want to build a blue correction in Photoshop and apply it to your profiles. If it proves to be consistant, I can build that fix into your profile for you (as can anyone that owns a copy of DoctorPRO). We have considered adding a special slider for this function in PrintFIX PRO, but so far we have not actually had as many users commenting on it as I had expected, given that its usually the leading issue with ICC profiling products.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision Business Unit
Datacolor Inc.
CDTobie@...

www.colorvision.com

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by mamemarquees

It is pretty dramatic and consistant, any light, daylight, my cheap
florescent light.

Here is the softproof and nosoftproof.

http://www.mamemarquees.com/images/softproofprintfixpor.jpg
http://www.mamemarquees.com/images/nosoftproof.jpg


Scott

> There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"...
what you 
> will get for results depends on a large number of factors you dont
list here, as 
> well as the ones you do. What light source are you viewing under?
What images 
> are you printing? If your combo is prone to significant magenta
shift in 
> blues, you may want to build a blue correction in Photoshop and
apply it to your 
> profiles. If it proves to be consistant, I can build that fix into
your profile 
> for you (as can anyone that owns a copy of DoctorPRO). We have
considered 
> adding a special slider for this function in PrintFIX PRO, but so
far we have not 
> actually had as many users commenting on it as I had expected, given
that its 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> usually the leading issue with ICC profiling products.
> 
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by randy

Hi CD, so my blue problem falls under this catagory?

Randy Laskody.

CDTobie@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> In a message dated 3/18/06 1:33:32 PM, mamemarquees@... writes:
>
>
>> I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile.  Most
>> colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all purple. I
>> also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple.  I tried
>> taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem to help
>> and made some of the other colors off.  I am using Winxp, the 225
>> patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an Epson1280.
>> I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then other
>> colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this product). 
>
>
> There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"... what 
> you will get for results depends on a large number of factors you dont 
> list here, as well as the ones you do. What light source are you 
> viewing under? What images are you printing? If your combo is prone to 
> significant magenta shift in blues, you may want to build a blue 
> correction in Photoshop and apply it to your profiles. If it proves to 
> be consistant, I can build that fix into your profile for you (as can 
> anyone that owns a copy of DoctorPRO). We have considered adding a 
> special slider for this function in PrintFIX PRO, but so far we have 
> not actually had as many users commenting on it as I had expected, 
> given that its usually the leading issue with ICC profiling products.
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
>
>
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Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by randy

Will doctor pro edit all profiles even atkinsons?

Hi CD, so my blue problem falls under this catagory?

Randy Laskody.

CDTobie@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> In a message dated 3/18/06 1:33:32 PM, mamemarquees@... writes:
>
>
>> I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile.  Most
>> colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all purple. I
>> also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple.  I tried
>> taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem to help
>> and made some of the other colors off.  I am using Winxp, the 225
>> patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an Epson1280.
>> I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then other
>> colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this product). 
>
>
> There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"... what 
> you will get for results depends on a large number of factors you dont 
> list here, as well as the ones you do. What light source are you 
> viewing under? What images are you printing? If your combo is prone to 
> significant magenta shift in blues, you may want to build a blue 
> correction in Photoshop and apply it to your profiles. If it proves to 
> be consistant, I can build that fix into your profile for you (as can 
> anyone that owns a copy of DoctorPRO). We have considered adding a 
> special slider for this function in PrintFIX PRO, but so far we have 
> not actually had as many users commenting on it as I had expected, 
> given that its usually the leading issue with ICC profiling products.
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>        
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>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by randy

Hello,  I think that you should build a fix into the software.  The name 
of the software is Printfix (PRO). Professionals need stuff (right) not 
close. If in fact it really is professional software I shouldn't need 
another software to fix it.

Randy

CDTobie@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> In a message dated 3/18/06 1:33:32 PM, mamemarquees@... writes:
>
>
>> I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile.  Most
>> colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all purple. I
>> also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple.  I tried
>> taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem to help
>> and made some of the other colors off.  I am using Winxp, the 225
>> patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an Epson1280.
>> I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then other
>> colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this product). 
>
>
> There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"... what 
> you will get for results depends on a large number of factors you dont 
> list here, as well as the ones you do. What light source are you 
> viewing under? What images are you printing? If your combo is prone to 
> significant magenta shift in blues, you may want to build a blue 
> correction in Photoshop and apply it to your profiles. If it proves to 
> be consistant, I can build that fix into your profile for you (as can 
> anyone that owns a copy of DoctorPRO). We have considered adding a 
> special slider for this function in PrintFIX PRO, but so far we have 
> not actually had as many users commenting on it as I had expected, 
> given that its usually the leading issue with ICC profiling products.
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision Business Unit
> Datacolor Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>       <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colorvision_group>" on the web.
>        
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>        
>     *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>       Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.
>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006
>

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by John Vitollo

CDTobie@... wrote:
> > There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"... 

randy  wrote:
> Hello,  I think that you should build a fix into the software.  The name 
> of the software is Printfix (PRO). Professionals need stuff (right) not 
> close. If in fact it really is professional software I shouldn't need 
> another software to fix it.

Randy this is a USER to USER group. CDTobie is very generous with his time and we all should 
be grateful that he takes time to post here. So lets ask for features a little nicer please.

When I was freelancing a few years ago I worked for a major northeast food company with in-
house photo studio, retouchers, color guru and a $20,000+ Dupont Wet Proofer. Output 
from the Dupont was right on except certain blues. I remember a light sky blue napkin going 
purple and not the color guru with the pro software could fix the purple shift. I just had to 
laugh as I was having the same issues at home with my cheap Epson 1280.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by randy

The trouble with written words is that sometimes people read things into 
them that are not there.  I am just laying facts on the table.  No 
animosity intended.  Been a long hard day though and  I am a little 
grumpy.  Sorry if that came through.

Randy

John Vitollo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>CDTobie@... wrote:
>  
>
>>>There are assorted color issues generically called "the blues"... 
>>>      
>>>
>
>randy  wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello,  I think that you should build a fix into the software.  The name 
>>of the software is Printfix (PRO). Professionals need stuff (right) not 
>>close. If in fact it really is professional software I shouldn't need 
>>another software to fix it.
>>    
>>
>
>Randy this is a USER to USER group. CDTobie is very generous with his time and we all should 
>be grateful that he takes time to post here. So lets ask for features a little nicer please.
>
>When I was freelancing a few years ago I worked for a major northeast food company with in-
>house photo studio, retouchers, color guru and a $20,000+ Dupont Wet Proofer. Output 
>from the Dupont was right on except certain blues. I remember a light sky blue napkin going 
>purple and not the color guru with the pro software could fix the purple shift. I just had to 
>laugh as I was having the same issues at home with my cheap Epson 1280.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-18 by John Vitollo

-- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
> The trouble with written words is that sometimes people read things into 
> them that are not there.  I am just laying facts on the table.  No 
> animosity intended.  Been a long hard day though and  I am a little 
> grumpy.  Sorry if that came through.
> 
> Randy

That's OK...get some rest!

Best,

John

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> I had Greenish/Yellowish cast problem with PFP, but that was because the
> "wrong" intent I chose. with the "right one"(saturation BPC off), I have
> blue problem too, but I have my own workaround...
> 
> However, "blue" is not an issue for me with profiles made with
Profilemaker
> Pro or MonacoProfiler on Epson papers... and Ilford Gallery Pearl.
And this
> statement is -not- meant to be a comparison to the PFP package since
they're
> in very different price range. Just want to point out that not every
> profiling package has problem with blue, or at least not nearly as
> pronounced.
> 

Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.  There are a huge number
of variables which may affect a shift from blue to purple.  It is a
classic problem in color science.  A slider to help solve the problem
when it arises would be most helpful though.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Xun Wang

I seriously doubt a slider will solve the problem without compromising 
other color. We'll probably get better result when Colorvision improves its 
profile building algorithm. 
But we'll see...

For people who have the DoctorPro, what editing options do you have in 
there? Does it do seperate AtoB & BtoA table editing?

::Xun Wang::
xun911@...
www.xun-wang.com

...... Original Message .......
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:25:34 -0000 "Tom" <ttrostel@...> wrote:
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>>
>> I had Greenish/Yellowish cast problem with PFP, but that was because the
>> "wrong" intent I chose. with the "right one"(saturation BPC off), I have
>> blue problem too, but I have my own workaround...
>> 
>> However, "blue" is not an issue for me with profiles made with
>Profilemaker
>> Pro or MonacoProfiler on Epson papers... and Ilford Gallery Pearl.
>And this
>> statement is -not- meant to be a comparison to the PFP package since
>they're
>> in very different price range. Just want to point out that not every
>> profiling package has problem with blue, or at least not nearly as
>> pronounced.
>> 
>
>Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.  There are a huge number
>of variables which may affect a shift from blue to purple.  It is a
>classic problem in color science.  A slider to help solve the problem
>when it arises would be most helpful though.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Xun Wang

...... Original Message .......
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:25:34 -0000 "Tom" <ttrostel@...> wrote:
>Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.  There are a huge number
>of variables which may affect a shift from blue to purple.
Given that a user knows what he's doing, there isn't a "huge number of 
variables....". It simply is the limitation of LAB color space which makes 
blue look purple. But many CMMs have already addressed and fixed the 
problem with their own ways of interpolating the data.
The problem lies in the CMM's algorithm.

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, Xun Wang <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> 
> 
> ...... Original Message .......
> On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:25:34 -0000 "Tom" <ttrostel@...> wrote:
> >Make sure you're comparing apples to apples.  There are a huge number
> >of variables which may affect a shift from blue to purple.
> Given that a user knows what he's doing, there isn't a "huge number of 
> variables....". It simply is the limitation of LAB color space which
makes 
> blue look purple. But many CMMs have already addressed and fixed the 
> problem with their own ways of interpolating the data.
> The problem lies in the CMM's algorithm.
>

Yes, whacky color spokes are definately a problem with LAB color. 
Other problems may include paper/ink combination metamerism,
illumination level, and/or whitepoint.  I'm not saying the user
doesn't know what he is doing certainly.  Its just hard to tell which
factor/factors are in play here.

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Bob Frost

Randy,

The 'blue turns purple' is a standard problem with most profiling software - 
professional or otherwise. Have a look at Bruce Lindbloom's site where he 
explains it:-

http://www.brucelindbloom.com/

Click on Calc (first item in top line), then under Munsell Display 
Calculator (3rd from bottom) click on 'blue turns purple'.

Bob Frost.

----- Original Message ----- 
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: "randy" <rlphoto@...>

> Hello,  I think that you should build a fix into the software.  The name
> of the software is Printfix (PRO). Professionals need stuff (right) not
> close. If in fact it really is professional software I shouldn't need
> another software to fix it.

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Bob Frost" <bob@...> wrote:
>
> Randy,
> 
> The 'blue turns purple' is a standard problem with most profiling
software - 
> professional or otherwise. Have a look at Bruce Lindbloom's site
where he 
> explains it:-
> 
> http://www.brucelindbloom.com/
> 
> Click on Calc (first item in top line), then under Munsell Display 
> Calculator (3rd from bottom) click on 'blue turns purple'.
> 
> Bob Frost.
> 

If anyone wants I have a sample imge from yesterday I took to
demonstrate the blue/purple issue.  Even the raw converter from Nikon
has issues with this richly extremely saturated orchid.

Would that be helpful?

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

Hello everyone,  I can handle a little color shift here and there. I do 
90% custom portraits for a living and the rest editorial, so exact color 
is not necessary. As long as it is close and looks good.  The skin tones 
are the most important of anything. I was very impressed with PFP skin 
tones so far.  It was also able to correct the green blocking shadow 
problem of the actkinson profile that I was having also.  But I cant 
deal with the posterization that occurs along with the color shift. And 
sometimes the color shift is pretty severe.  And if doctor pro only uses 
PS tools for correction I cant see this as a global solution either.  
The actkinson profile doesn't have this problem, so I know it is 
correctable.  I believe like Xun, that  the problem lies in the 
algorithm.  But all I ask for is a solution. If I am at fault is some 
way, please help me correct it so I can go on using this product and 
making a living.  If this issue is not correctable,  then let me know so 
I wont spend anymore time looking for one.

Thanks and have a good day.

Randy Laskody

Bob Frost wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Randy,
>
>The 'blue turns purple' is a standard problem with most profiling software - 
>professional or otherwise. Have a look at Bruce Lindbloom's site where he 
>explains it:-
>
>http://www.brucelindbloom.com/
>
>Click on Calc (first item in top line), then under Munsell Display 
>Calculator (3rd from bottom) click on 'blue turns purple'.
>
>Bob Frost.
>
>----- Original Message ----- 
>From: "randy" <rlphoto@...>
>
>  
>
>>Hello,  I think that you should build a fix into the software.  The name
>>of the software is Printfix (PRO). Professionals need stuff (right) not
>>close. If in fact it really is professional software I shouldn't need
>>another software to fix it.
>>    
>>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

We ended up going down to the church for community dinner. Nothing like 
Salisbury steak, baked potatoes and green beans to cheer a fella up. : )

Randy

John Vitollo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>-- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>The trouble with written words is that sometimes people read things into 
>>them that are not there.  I am just laying facts on the table.  No 
>>animosity intended.  Been a long hard day though and  I am a little 
>>grumpy.  Sorry if that came through.
>>
>>Randy
>>    
>>
>
>That's OK...get some rest!
>
>Best,
>
>John
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>
> We ended up going down to the church for community dinner. Nothing like 
> Salisbury steak, baked potatoes and green beans to cheer a fella up. : )
> 
> Randy

Sounds delicious!  Glad you had a good time :-)

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,  I can handle a little color shift here and there. I do 
> 90% custom portraits for a living and the rest editorial, so exact
color 
> is not necessary. As long as it is close and looks good.  The skin
tones 
> are the most important of anything. I was very impressed with PFP skin 
> tones so far.  It was also able to correct the green blocking shadow 
> problem of the actkinson profile that I was having also.  But I cant 
> deal with the posterization that occurs along with the color shift. And 
> sometimes the color shift is pretty severe.  And if doctor pro only
uses 
> PS tools for correction I cant see this as a global solution either.  
> The actkinson profile doesn't have this problem, so I know it is 
> correctable.  I believe like Xun, that  the problem lies in the 
> algorithm.  But all I ask for is a solution. If I am at fault is some 
> way, please help me correct it so I can go on using this product and 
> making a living.  If this issue is not correctable,  then let me
know so 
> I wont spend anymore time looking for one.
> 
> Thanks and have a good day.
> 
> Randy Laskody

What if collectively we come up with a somewhat harsher test image. 
One that stresses the portions where we are finding issues like
posterization and blue/purple color shifts?  It may be interesting to
keep it photographic, not mathematical like a Granger Rainbow.

I'd like to have a use it for the following to test how well a profile
works (in gamut colors) and how well the CMM engine works (out of
gamut colors) while making clear which component is responsible for
each.  It would also be interesting if it had gradients which stressed
the areas where 8bit images show posterization and 16bit images do
not.  I realize that this test is a bit unfair but ... if we keep it
photographic ... its definately real world and exercises the real
world issues we face.

What do you think?  Is this just beating a dead horse because it has
been done already?  How about the center containing colors which are
normaly in gamut while the outside contains colors which stress the
CMM engine?

Its just an idea ... feel free to stomp on it .. shoot holes in it
etc.  Thats the only way it really gets better :-)

Thanks

Tom

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by mamemarquees

I guess I don't really understand... I would expect the softproof to 
barely change what I see when I don't softproof.  I have used 
Profile prism in the past and have a really nice profile for the 
Blue image I referenced, when I PRINT it, or SOFTPROOF it, it looks 
almost exactly like it does without applying the softproof.  With PP 
I never had much of an issue with the blues, it was some of the Reds 
that I had issues with, and is the main reason that I purchased PFP.

I tried editing using the softproof and PS to edit the image back to 
what I intended, but I can't get the blues even close to what I want 
them to be... and it is really difficult to chose one color in the 
palet and place it on the image and have it be a totally different 
color.

Scott



--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "bwinkjet" <bwinkjet@...> 
wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
> 
> If your monitor is profiled and the soft proof shows purplish 
blues 
> then the profile is not at fault.  I would suggest you soft proof 
in PS 
> or your imaging editor and work with HS for blues and correct the 
image 
> on screen and then print.  If there is close correlation print to 
soft 
> proofed screen, then the profile is doing its job.
> 
> HTH
> 
> Paul
> 
> -- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "mamemarquees" 
> <mamemarquees@> wrote:
> >
> > Hello
> > 
> > I just purchased the printfix pro and did my first profile.  Most
> > colors are spot on with the exception of blues which are all 
purple. I
> > also do a softproof and see the blues migrating to purple.  I 
tried
> > taking out some magenta with the slider, but that did not seem 
to help
> > and made some of the other colors off.  I am using Winxp, the 225
> > patch on a epson luster clone paper and a dye UV ink on an 
Epson1280.
> >  I can get very nice blues using the standard profile, but then 
other
> > colors are off like red (which is why I purchased this 
product).  
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > 
> > Any suggestions?
> > 
> > Scott
> >
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

Try this for a test image.  Background painted with full saturation 
industrial pigments.  5d image shot in Raw, converted to 8 bit tiff 
prophoto rgb with capture one.  Reduced to 3 mb.

www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/bluetestimage.tif


Randy Laskody

Tom wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Hello everyone,  I can handle a little color shift here and there. I do 
>>90% custom portraits for a living and the rest editorial, so exact
>>    
>>
>color 
>  
>
>>is not necessary. As long as it is close and looks good.  The skin
>>    
>>
>tones 
>  
>
>>are the most important of anything. I was very impressed with PFP skin 
>>tones so far.  It was also able to correct the green blocking shadow 
>>problem of the actkinson profile that I was having also.  But I cant 
>>deal with the posterization that occurs along with the color shift. And 
>>sometimes the color shift is pretty severe.  And if doctor pro only
>>    
>>
>uses 
>  
>
>>PS tools for correction I cant see this as a global solution either.  
>>The actkinson profile doesn't have this problem, so I know it is 
>>correctable.  I believe like Xun, that  the problem lies in the 
>>algorithm.  But all I ask for is a solution. If I am at fault is some 
>>way, please help me correct it so I can go on using this product and 
>>making a living.  If this issue is not correctable,  then let me
>>    
>>
>know so 
>  
>
>>I wont spend anymore time looking for one.
>>
>>Thanks and have a good day.
>>
>>Randy Laskody
>>    
>>
>
>What if collectively we come up with a somewhat harsher test image. 
>One that stresses the portions where we are finding issues like
>posterization and blue/purple color shifts?  It may be interesting to
>keep it photographic, not mathematical like a Granger Rainbow.
>
>I'd like to have a use it for the following to test how well a profile
>works (in gamut colors) and how well the CMM engine works (out of
>gamut colors) while making clear which component is responsible for
>each.  It would also be interesting if it had gradients which stressed
>the areas where 8bit images show posterization and 16bit images do
>not.  I realize that this test is a bit unfair but ... if we keep it
>photographic ... its definately real world and exercises the real
>world issues we face.
>
>What do you think?  Is this just beating a dead horse because it has
>been done already?  How about the center containing colors which are
>normaly in gamut while the outside contains colors which stress the
>CMM engine?
>
>Its just an idea ... feel free to stomp on it .. shoot holes in it
>etc.  Thats the only way it really gets better :-)
>
>Thanks
>
>Tom
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/18/06 4:53:00 PM, rlphoto@... writes:


Will doctor pro edit all profiles even atkinsons?


Yes...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...m
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/18/06 5:14:32 PM, rlphoto@... writes:


Hello, I think that you should build a fix into the software. The name
of the software is Printfix (PRO). Professionals need stuff (right) not
close. If in fact it really is professional software I shouldn't need
another software to fix it.


Given that there have been a total of two or three users commenting about it so far (and those just recently), it hasn't been at the top of the priority list previously. One adjustment would allow for making all blues less cyan or less magenta (depending on the direction of adjustment). Whether that would fix your particular issue depends on whether that describes your particular issue...

Please note that some circumstances make this more problematic than others. Many users have no problem, so an automatic adjustment would do them a disservice. A few cases can require adjustment in the reverse direction, so an automatic adjustment could actually make it worse. So a slider specifically for global blue hue adjustment would seem to be the most flexible solution.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision.com
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/18/06 7:39:55 PM, bwinkjet@... writes:


If your monitor is profiled and the soft proof shows purplish blues
then the profile is not at fault. I would suggest you soft proof in PS
or your imaging editor and work with HS for blues and correct the image
on screen and then print. If there is close correlation print to soft
proofed screen, then the profile is doing its job.


Well... thats a tough one. Its doing ONE job, which is representing the print on screen in SoftProof. As the posts on the topic here show, people also have a range of other expectations as well. Unfortunately, when and out of gamut blue is brought in gamut, the visual non-linearity of Lab space can make the blues turn purple, since the nearest in gamut color to a given blue may well be a less saturated, but more purple, tone. There are tricks to try to precorrect this, but as I noted earlier, they may not suit other users, so having them invisibly hardwired into the software is not necessarily ideal.

Its a bit like the Monaco fix for Relative Colorimetric printing with Black Point Compensation in Adobe Applications... yes, it gives better RelCol w/BPC results, but it clips all dark tones without BPC, or in apps that don't offer BPC, so its a compromise with a downside as well as an upside. We want to avoid causing more problems then we solve.

I have observed here, and elsewhere, in the past that what users "expect" from a profile is often different in blues than in other colors. Someone just commented that the Saturation intent "fixed" his yellow issues (in other words, did what he expected for yellows) but was unsatisfactory for blues (in other words, did not do what he expected there)...

I'm beginning to think that the ColorVision Perceptual intent, which is somewhere between the RelCol results and the Sat results, might do well to offer something closer to the warm color results of Saturation, with something closer to the cool color results of Relative Colorimetric. Anyone that would find that to be a good solution?

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/18/06 8:07:59 PM, xun911@... writes:


I seriously doubt a slider will solve the problem without compromising
other color. We'll probably get better result when Colorvision improves its
profile building algorithm.
But we'll see...


Given the range of user perceptions of this issue its a bit like that book that everyone is always asking me to write... when I get into the details, they are all asking for different books, so whatever I wrote wouldn't satisfy all of them. Its all to easy to assume there is a "right" answer to The Blues, but it turns out we can't even agree on what the question is...

For people who have the DoctorPro, what editing options do you have in
there? Does it do seperate AtoB & BtoA table editing?

No, that would certainly be possible to add to the product, but we never did, and it is now no longer an active part of the latest product line. So unless we have the opportunity to build a new DoctorPRO, based on our newer software interface, I don't expect to see any further feature changes in it.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

Hi CD, 

What I have found with the other intents is that the blues still 
posterize but get more saturated instead of the other extreme with 
saturation intent which would be posterize with less saturation.

Randy
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
>
> I'm beginning to think that the ColorVision Perceptual intent, which 
> is somewhere between the RelCol results and the Sat results, might do 
> well to offer something closer to the warm color results of 
> Saturation, with something closer to the cool color results of 
> Relative Colorimetric. Anyone that would find that to be a good solution?
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision, Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
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>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
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Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/18/06 9:20:52 PM, xun911@... writes:




...... Original Message .......
On Sun, 19 Mar 2006 00:25:34 -0000 "Tom" wrote:
>Make sure you're comparing apples to apples. There are a huge number
>of variables which may affect a shift from blue to purple.
Given that a user knows what he's doing, there isn't a "huge number of
variables....". It simply is the limitation of LAB color space which makes
blue look purple. But many CMMs have already addressed and fixed the
problem with their own ways of interpolating the data.
The problem lies in the CMM's algorithm.


Thats ONE of the issues here, and one that is out of ColorVision's hands since we don't build the CMMs, only the profiles. As I said earlier, a "hack" for that at the profile level, isn't always going to do the right thing for all users...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/19/06 11:06:04 AM, mamemarquees@... writes:


I guess I don't really understand... I would expect the softproof to
barely change what I see when I don't softproof. I have used
Profile prism in the past and have a really nice profile for the
Blue image I referenced, when I PRINT it, or SOFTPROOF it, it looks
almost exactly like it does without applying the softproof


A scanner-based profile does not have a very clear idea about out of gamut colors, as it does not have spectro-level accuracy. So trying to see out of gamut color shifts through a scanner-built profile is deceptive.

Just to get everyone on this thread on the same page: is everyone using AdobeRGB as their RGB workingspace? And is everyone working from photographic images, not out of gamut vector colors?

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/19/06 12:31:02 PM, rlphoto@... writes:


Try this for a test image. Background painted with full saturation
industrial pigments. 5d image shot in Raw, converted to 8 bit tiff
prophoto rgb with capture one.


No, Prophoto offers a color gamut larger than human vision, with lots of bizarre issues at those non-viewable corners. Convert to 8 bit using AdobeRGB, and try again. Otherwise I'm taking all my toys back to my yard, and playing with kids who don't throw sand in my eyes!

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

I only used prophoto because that way all available data would be there 
to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab 
uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference.  Just for 
the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no 
difference in blue issues. 

I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb

Thanks for taking time on a sunday to respond to these questions.

Randy


CDTobie@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> In a message dated 3/19/06 12:31:02 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>
>
>> Try this for a test image.  Background painted with full saturation
>> industrial pigments.  5d image shot in Raw, converted to 8 bit tiff
>> prophoto rgb with capture one. 
>
>
>
> No, Prophoto offers a color gamut larger than human vision, with lots 
> of bizarre issues at those non-viewable corners. Convert to 8 bit 
> using AdobeRGB, and try again. Otherwise I'm taking all my toys back 
> to my yard, and playing with kids who don't throw sand in my eyes! <G>
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision, Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
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>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
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Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

A new test image has been posted in adobe rgb replacing the old prophoto

Randy

randy wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>I only used prophoto because that way all available data would be there 
>to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab 
>uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference.  Just for 
>the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no 
>difference in blue issues. 
>
>I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
>
>Thanks for taking time on a sunday to respond to these questions.
>
>Randy
>
>
>CDTobie@... wrote:
>
>  
>
>>In a message dated 3/19/06 12:31:02 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Try this for a test image.  Background painted with full saturation
>>>industrial pigments.  5d image shot in Raw, converted to 8 bit tiff
>>>prophoto rgb with capture one. 
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>No, Prophoto offers a color gamut larger than human vision, with lots 
>>of bizarre issues at those non-viewable corners. Convert to 8 bit 
>>using AdobeRGB, and try again. Otherwise I'm taking all my toys back 
>>to my yard, and playing with kids who don't throw sand in my eyes! <G>
>>
>>C. David Tobie
>>Product Technology Manager
>>ColorVision, Inc.
>>CDTobie@...
>>www.colorvision.com
>>
>>SPONSORED LINKS
>>Digital photography software 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
>>	Digital photography 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
>>	Digital photography course 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>>
>>Photography school 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
>>	Professional digital photography 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
>>	Stock photography 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@... writes:


I only used prophoto because that way all available data would be there
to convert to. My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab
uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference. Just for
the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
difference in blue issues.

I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb


Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB, so it may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the gamut of most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what they should be expecting from it...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by randy

What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.

Randy

CDTobie@... wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>
>
>> I only used prophoto because that way all available data would be there
>> to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab
>> uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference.  Just for
>> the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
>> difference in blue issues.
>>
>> I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
>
>
>
> Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB, so it 
> may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more 
> reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the gamut of 
> most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic 
> content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what 
> they should be expecting from it...
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision, Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
>
>
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>

Test image

2006-03-19 by randy

Here is a senior portrait with a lot of blue that just gets murdered.

www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/Lindseybluetest.tif

and the printfix profile....

www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm

Randy



randy wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
>might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
>
>Randy
>
>CDTobie@... wrote:
>
>  
>
>>In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>>
>>
>>    
>>
>>>I only used prophoto because that way all available data would be there
>>>to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab
>>>uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference.  Just for
>>>the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
>>>difference in blue issues.
>>>
>>>I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
>>>      
>>>
>>
>>Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB, so it 
>>may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more 
>>reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the gamut of 
>>most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic 
>>content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what 
>>they should be expecting from it...
>>
>>C. David Tobie
>>Product Technology Manager
>>ColorVision, Inc.
>>CDTobie@...
>>www.colorvision.com
>>
>>SPONSORED LINKS
>>Digital photography software 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
>>	Digital photography 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
>>	Digital photography course 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>>
>>Photography school 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
>>	Professional digital photography 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
>>	Stock photography 
>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>>
>>
>>
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>>      <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colorvision_group>" on the web.
>>       
>>    *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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>>      <mailto:colorvision_group-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>>       
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>>      Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006
>>
>>    
>>
>
>
> 
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>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Test image

2006-03-19 by randy

Here is a background (the same image I posted earlier).

www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/bluetestimage.tif

and the same profile...


www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm


This is also an image that I would not be able to use the printfix pro profile on.  

Randy




randy wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Here is a senior portrait with a lot of blue that just gets murdered.
>
>www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/Lindseybluetest.tif
>
>and the printfix profile....
>
>www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm
>
>Randy
>
>
>
>randy wrote:
>
>  
>
>>What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
>>might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
>>
>>Randy
>>
>>CDTobie@... wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>>    
>>
>>>In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>>>
>>>
>>>   
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>I only used prophoto because that way all available data would be there
>>>>to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab
>>>>uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference.  Just for
>>>>the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
>>>>difference in blue issues.
>>>>
>>>>I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
>>>>     
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB, so it 
>>>may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more 
>>>reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the gamut of 
>>>most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic 
>>>content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what 
>>>they should be expecting from it...
>>>
>>>C. David Tobie
>>>Product Technology Manager
>>>ColorVision, Inc.
>>>CDTobie@...
>>>www.colorvision.com
>>>
>>>SPONSORED LINKS
>>>Digital photography software 
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
>>>	Digital photography 
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
>>>	Digital photography course 
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>>>
>>>Photography school 
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
>>>	Professional digital photography 
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
>>>	Stock photography 
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>>     Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
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>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date: 3/17/2006
>>>
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>>>
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>>
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Re: [colorvision_group] Test image

2006-03-19 by randy

You must be on dial up?    I didnt want anyone to blame the problems on 
the compression.   If anybody need jpegs just email me.

Randy

xun wang wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> randy, JPEG please... :)
>
> On 3/19/06, randy <rlphoto@... <mailto:rlphoto@...>> wrote:
>
>     Here is a senior portrait with a lot of blue that just gets murdered.
>
>     www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/Lindseybluetest.tif
>     <http://www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/Lindseybluetest.tif>
>
>     and the printfix profile....
>
>     www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm
>     <http://www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm>
>
>     Randy
>
>
>
>     randy wrote:
>
>     >What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that
>     >might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
>     >
>     >Randy
>     >
>     >CDTobie@... <mailto:CDTobie@...> wrote:
>     >
>     >
>     >
>     >>In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@...
>     <mailto:rlphoto@...> writes:
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>
>     >>>I only used prophoto because that way all available data would
>     be there
>     >>>to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what
>     my lab
>     >>>uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real
>     difference.  Just for
>     >>>the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
>     >>>difference in blue issues.
>     >>>
>     >>>I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
>     >>>
>     >>>
>     >>
>     >>Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB,
>     so it
>     >>may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more
>     >>reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the
>     gamut of
>     >>most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic
>     >>content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what
>     >>they should be expecting from it...
>     >>
>     >>C. David Tobie
>     >>Product Technology Manager
>     >>ColorVision, Inc.
>     >>CDTobie@... <mailto:CDTobie@...>
>     >>www.colorvision.com <http://www.colorvision.com>
>     >>
>     >>SPONSORED LINKS
>     >>Digital photography software
>     >><
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA
>     <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA>>
>     >>      Digital photography
>     >><
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ
>     <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ>>
>     >>      Digital photography course
>     >><
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g
>     <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g>>
>     >>
>     >>Photography school
>     >><
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw
>     <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw>>
>     >>      Professional digital photography
>     >><
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g
>     <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g>>
>     >>      Stock photography
>     >><
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg
>     <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg>>
>     >>
>     >>
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>     >>No virus found in this incoming message.
>     >>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>     >>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date:
>     3/17/2006
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>     >
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>     >Yahoo! Groups Links
>     >
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>     Yahoo! Groups Links
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> -- 
> ::Xun Wang::
> xun911@... <mailto:xun911@...>
> www.xun-wang.com <http://www.xun-wang.com>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
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>
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>  
>

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:

> Otherwise I'm taking all my toys back to my yard, and playing with 
> kids who don't throw sand in my eyes! <G>
> 

I saw a sign in a store yesterday that read:

Unattended children will be fed espresso and given a free kitten.

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
 
>  You don't need to build a test image. Just grab a picture that has
lots of
> different blues and softproof then print it out, then you'll see if
you have
> the problem or not.

Yep ... but I wanted to test more than just the blues all at once.

Re: Test image

2006-03-19 by Douglas Ross

Have you tried with a different paper or ink? Some ink and paper
combos just don't work, that posterizing is just ugly with your
profile. I soft profed and printed with a profile I made with PFP for
my I9900 and have no problems at all with posterizing or purple shift.

I'm probably no help but if no profile yet handles this ink paper
combo maybe its not the fault of the profile.

Just my 2 cents, Doug

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>
> Here is a background (the same image I posted earlier).
> 
> www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/bluetestimage.tif
> 
> and the same profile...
> 
> 
> www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm
> 
> 
> This is also an image that I would not be able to use the printfix
pro profile on.  
> 
> Randy
> 
> 
> 
> 
> randy wrote:
> 
> >Here is a senior portrait with a lot of blue that just gets murdered.
> >
> >www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/Lindseybluetest.tif
> >
> >and the printfix profile....
> >
> >www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm
> >
> >Randy
> >
> >
> >
> >randy wrote:
> >
> >  
> >
> >>What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
> >>might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
> >>
> >>Randy
> >>
> >>CDTobie@... wrote:
> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
> >>
> >>>In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>   
> >>>
> >>>      
> >>>
> >>>>I only used prophoto because that way all available data would
be there
> >>>>to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab
> >>>>uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference. 
Just for
> >>>>the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
> >>>>difference in blue issues.
> >>>>
> >>>>I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
> >>>>     
> >>>>
> >>>>        
> >>>>
> >>>Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB,
so it 
> >>>may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more 
> >>>reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the
gamut of 
> >>>most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic 
> >>>content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what 
> >>>they should be expecting from it...
> >>>
> >>>C. David Tobie
> >>>Product Technology Manager
> >>>ColorVision, Inc.
> >>>CDTobie@...
> >>>www.colorvision.com
> >>>
> >>>SPONSORED LINKS
> >>>Digital photography software 
>
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA>

> >>>	Digital photography 
>
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ>

> >>>	Digital photography course 
>
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g>

> >>>
> >>>Photography school 
>
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw>

> >>>	Professional digital photography 
>
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g>

> >>>	Stock photography 
>
>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg>

> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
>
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>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>
> >>>No virus found in this incoming message.
> >>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> >>>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date:
3/17/2006
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >>>
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> >>>      
> >>>
> >>
> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
> >>
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> >>
> >> 
> >>
> >>    
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> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
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> > 
> >
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> >  
> >
>

Re: Test image

2006-03-19 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Ross" <dlr9000@...>
wrote:
>
> Have you tried with a different paper or ink? Some ink and paper
> combos just don't work, that posterizing is just ugly with your
> profile. I soft profed and printed with a profile I made with PFP for
> my I9900 and have no problems at all with posterizing or purple shift.
> 

It won't shift for me with my profiles :-/

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Test image

2006-03-19 by xun wang

Two things: 1) For those of you who find no problem with the blue in Softproof, don t take it too literally. A printer output profile is bidirectional, what

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by Brian Smith

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>
> What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
> might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
> 
> Randy

I don't know if this is helpful but go to http://www.josephholmes.com/ 
and go to his gallery. Have a go at soft proofing the images: Elegant 
trees... and Eagle Lake, Acadia...

My profile for epson archival matte murders the leaves on the trees in 
the first one and the greenish blue areas of the second.

That said, neither of these shots looks natural and I would love to 
see how they come out printed by him. When I soft proof using the 
epson  supplied profile it just mutes down the  highly saturated 
colours but keeps them in the same relationship to each other.

Brian

Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> Two things:
> 1) For those of you who find no problem with the blue in Softproof,
don't
> take it too literally. A printer output profile is bidirectional,
what you
> see only represents the AtoB table, but it is the BtoA table that really
> controls your printer's output(which you don't see). Ideally the
AtoB should
> present the BtoA accurately, but that's not always the case, which
is partly
> why we sometime need a profile editor in the first place...
> Print out Randy's pic(4x6 - 5x7 should be enough, wait for 10-15min then
> evaluate it under proper lighting). I just did it on my r1800 PFP
225target
> on enhanced matte, and the blue shift is worse than my softproof.
> 2) Having said that, although I have purple shift too, it's not
nearly as
> bad(posterized) as Randy's softproof shows. Mine only looks bad when
it's
> been compared to the original picture or the profile produced by
> Monacoprofiler.
> 
> Xun

Maybe its the paper/ink combination because it prints okay on my R1800
and looks darn close to the original.  I do not detect a hue shift. 
I'm using Crane Museo because I don't have any Enhanced Matte.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by Walt Mucha

This probably has been mentioned and I haven't been paying a lot of attention due to all the rain and flooding we've been having over here. I used to load the test chart in PS and make a selective color adjustment layer. Select the blue from the drop down and add a +10 magenta. Print the chart, let dry and read. The theory is that the excess magenta in the blues forces the software to overcompensate and thereby rendering a more accurate blue. Well back to the sand bags

Walt

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by randy

Well, this is epson ultrachrome ink ink and epson premium luster paper.  
I have been printing the last 3 years with the epson stock profile.

Randy

Douglas Ross wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>Have you tried with a different paper or ink? Some ink and paper
>combos just don't work, that posterizing is just ugly with your
>profile. I soft profed and printed with a profile I made with PFP for
>my I9900 and have no problems at all with posterizing or purple shift.
>
>I'm probably no help but if no profile yet handles this ink paper
>combo maybe its not the fault of the profile.
>
>Just my 2 cents, Doug
>
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Here is a background (the same image I posted earlier).
>>
>>www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/bluetestimage.tif
>>
>>and the same profile...
>>
>>
>>www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm
>>
>>
>>This is also an image that I would not be able to use the printfix
>>    
>>
>pro profile on.  
>  
>
>>Randy
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>randy wrote:
>>
>>    
>>
>>>Here is a senior portrait with a lot of blue that just gets murdered.
>>>
>>>www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/Lindseybluetest.tif
>>>
>>>and the printfix profile....
>>>
>>>www.laskodyphotography.com/bluetest/7600epluster.icm
>>>
>>>Randy
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>randy wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>>>>What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
>>>>might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
>>>>
>>>>Randy
>>>>
>>>>CDTobie@... wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>In a message dated 3/19/06 2:13:16 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>>>I only used prophoto because that way all available data would
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>be there
>  
>
>>>>>>to convert to.  My main workflow is srgb because that is what my lab
>>>>>>uses. I will change to Adobe if I can see any real difference. 
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>Just for
>  
>
>>>>>>the record I have ran these problem images thru adobe rgb with no
>>>>>>difference in blue issues.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>I will repost my test image in Adobe rgb
>>>>>>    
>>>>>>
>>>>>>       
>>>>>>
>>>>>>            
>>>>>>
>>>>>Turns out little or none of your test image is outside AdobeRGB,
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>so it 
>  
>
>>>>>may not matter, though converting it to AdobeRGb is still a more 
>>>>>reasonable starting point. Also not much of it is outside the
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>gamut of 
>  
>
>>>>>most monitors, which is also helpful. But there is no photographic 
>>>>>content or memory colors, so its difficult for people to know what 
>>>>>they should be expecting from it...
>>>>>
>>>>>C. David Tobie
>>>>>Product Technology Manager
>>>>>ColorVision, Inc.
>>>>>CDTobie@...
>>>>>www.colorvision.com
>>>>>
>>>>>SPONSORED LINKS
>>>>>Digital photography software 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>	Digital photography 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>	Digital photography course 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>Photography school 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>	Professional digital photography 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>	Stock photography 
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>><http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg>
>>>>        
>>>>
>
>  
>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS
>>>>>
>>>>>  *  Visit your group "colorvision_group
>>>>>    <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/colorvision_group>" on the web.
>>>>>     
>>>>>  *  To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
>>>>>     colorvision_group-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>   
>>>>>          
>>>>>
><mailto:colorvision_group-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>
>  
>
>>>>>     
>>>>>  *  Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
>>>>>    Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>>>No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>>>>Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.2.5/284 - Release Date:
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>3/17/2006
>  
>
>>>>>  
>>>>>
>>>>>     
>>>>>
>>>>>          
>>>>>
>>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>   
>>>>
>>>>        
>>>>
>>>
>>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>      
>>>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by randy

how bout that.   What paper and inkare you using?  I am using epson 
ultrachrome pigments.

Randy

Tom wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Douglas Ross" <dlr9000@...>
>wrote:
>  
>
>>Have you tried with a different paper or ink? Some ink and paper
>>combos just don't work, that posterizing is just ugly with your
>>profile. I soft profed and printed with a profile I made with PFP for
>>my I9900 and have no problems at all with posterizing or purple shift.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>It won't shift for me with my profiles :-/
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by randy

Thanks Walt, that makes a lot of sense. Sorry for all your troubles down 
there.  One thing about the weather,  it will eventually change.

Randy

Walt Mucha wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>This probably has been mentioned and I haven't been paying a lot of attention due to all the rain and flooding we've been having over here. I used to load the test chart in PS and make a selective color adjustment layer. Select the blue from the drop down and add a +10 magenta. Print the chart, let dry and read. The theory is that the excess magenta in the blues forces the software to overcompensate and thereby rendering a more accurate blue. Well back to the sand bags
>
>Walt
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by randy

Very creative use of over saturation on those images.  Unnatural but 
good looking.

Randy

Brian Smith wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>What would be a good test image?   I just through one out there that 
>>might be troublesome since is had a lot of full saturation colors.
>>
>>Randy
>>    
>>
>
>I don't know if this is helpful but go to http://www.josephholmes.com/ 
>and go to his gallery. Have a go at soft proofing the images: Elegant 
>trees... and Eagle Lake, Acadia...
>
>My profile for epson archival matte murders the leaves on the trees in 
>the first one and the greenish blue areas of the second.
>
>That said, neither of these shots looks natural and I would love to 
>see how they come out printed by him. When I soft proof using the 
>epson  supplied profile it just mutes down the  highly saturated 
>colours but keeps them in the same relationship to each other.
>
>Brian
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by John Vitollo

On 3/19/06 10:20 PM, "randy" <rlphoto@...> wrote:

> Well, this is epson ultrachrome ink ink and epson premium luster paper.  
> I have been printing the last 3 years with the epson stock profile.
> 
> Rand

Hi Randy,

I don't have your ink/paper and printer combo. But your image printed fine on William Turner 
with an Epson 4800 through a PrintFIX PRO profile.

Just to remind everyone...Randy is seeing the blues shift to purple with an Epson 7600 on 
Luster only with a PFP profile but not Epson's profile.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/19/06 11:28:31 PM, xun911@... writes:



Yep, check out the "Eagle Lake", it's probably more revealing then the portrait. if you don't have problem with that, you're in good shape. I can watch the water covered with a purplish tint even in my softproof on Epsn Premium Glossy(can't proof with matte, too much out of gamut blue).

I very much enjoy Joe Holmes work; by the way Joe has developed color management software, over the years as well as small gamut inks. He's the creator of the EktaRGB workingspace, in an attempt to capture the EktaChrome film color range. But I find many of these images to be artificially oversaturateed, and more a test of out of gamut conditions that real photo colors... I do love Eagle Lake, however oversaturated; its one of my local shooting spots.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@colorvision.com
www.colorvision.com

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by Brian Smith

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, CDTobie@... wrote:
>
> 
> In a message dated 3/19/06 11:28:31 PM, xun911@... writes:
> 
> 
> > 
> > Yep, check out the "Eagle Lake", it's probably more revealing then 
the 
> > portrait. if you don't have problem with that, you're in good 
shape. I can watch 
> > the water covered with a purplish tint even in my softproof on 
Epsn Premium 
> > Glossy(can't proof with matte, too much out of gamut blue).
> > 
> I very much enjoy Joe Holmes work; by the way Joe has developed 
color 
> management software, over the years as well as small gamut inks. 
He's the creator of 
> the EktaRGB workingspace, in an attempt to capture the EktaChrome 
film color 
> range. But I find many of these images to be artificially 
oversaturateed, and 
> more a test of out of gamut conditions that real photo colors... I 
do love 
> Eagle Lake, however oversaturated; its one of my local shooting 
spots.

I wasn't of course criticising Joe Holmes pictures. I was using them 
as an instant example that showed what I wanted to say about the way 
that my PFP epson matte profile dealt with out of gamut colours. I 
went to his site seeking expertise on colour management. 

Where greens and blues are out of gamut the epson supplied profiles 
seem to bring the colours into gamut by maintaining the brightness but 
reducing the saturation with little shift in hue. My PFP profile 
performs just the same up to a certain level and then sharply darkens 
the OOG colours. In the tree shot, when I soft proof,  half of the 
leaves suddenly go really dark while others are unchanged. Reducing 
the saturation of the greens restores the brightness relationships. In 
the Eagle Lake picture most of the darker blues remain unchanged but 
the light greenish blues dramatically shift to dark blue leaving the 
picture rather flat.

Don't get me wrong here. I guess I have no business trying to print 
colours that cannot be printed on matte paper but I'd just like to 
understand the difference in the way that the epson and the PFP 
profiles deal with OOG colours. Providing I stay within 'natural 
colours' the PFP profile is much better than the epson one.

Brian

Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>
> how bout that.   What paper and inkare you using?  I am using epson 
> ultrachrome pigments.
> 

I'm trying it with the UltraChrome high gloss set (+ red and blue
inks) on Crane Museo.  Maybe its the addition of the blue ink in this
inkset?

Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...>
wrote:
 
> I don't have your ink/paper and printer combo. But your image
printed fine on William Turner 
> with an Epson 4800 through a PrintFIX PRO profile.
> 
> Just to remind everyone...Randy is seeing the blues shift to purple
with an Epson 7600 on 
> Luster only with a PFP profile but not Epson's profile.

I did get some very nasty banding effects and color shift
interestingly to orange on the Crane paper if I used Velvet Fine Art
as the media.  It smooths out and gets a lot better (though not
perfect) using the 729 patch target.  Even with that though it still
has some minor banding and  a shift.  If however it is printed with
the Enhanced Matte setting everything looks perfect.

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-20 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> Nice gallery.
> Yep, check out the "Eagle Lake", it's probably more revealing the the
> portrait. if you don't have problem with that, you're in good shape.
I can
> watch the water covered with a purplish tint even in my softproof on
Epsn
> Premium Glossy(can't proof with matte, too much out of gamut blue).
> 

I like your web page Xun.  Very clever presentation.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Test image

2006-03-20 by randy

Duno... Probably has to help.   You are also on a matte finnish paper.  
Maybe printfix pro is having trouble with  pigment ink and photo papers.

Randy

Tom wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, randy <rlphoto@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>how bout that.   What paper and inkare you using?  I am using epson 
>>ultrachrome pigments.
>>
>>    
>>
>
>I'm trying it with the UltraChrome high gloss set (+ red and blue
>inks) on Crane Museo.  Maybe its the addition of the blue ink in this
>inkset?
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by CDTobie@aol.com

In a message dated 3/20/06 5:21:57 AM, zen1@... writes:


> Don't get me wrong here. I guess I have no business trying to print
> colours that cannot be printed on matte paper but I'd just like to
> understand the difference in the way that the epson and the PFP
> profiles deal with OOG colours. Providing I stay within 'natural
> colours' the PFP profile is much better than the epson one.
> 
> 
Thats certainly how we intended the process to work: use the softproof to 
determine if there are significantly out of gamut colors, and bring those areas 
in, or nearly in, gamut before printing, so that the "intent" is your artistic 
intent, not a profile intent. I'd hate to sacrifice the quality of our in 
gamut and nearly in gamut colors in an attempt to deal with wildly out of gamut 
colors, when the best solution is to deal with those extreme colors yourself...

I've never been fond of the "throw anything at the profile and expect what 
you personally prefer to come out the printer" school of thought, as colors too 
far out of gamut require some thought: Should   I use a wider gamut paper for 
this print, should I desaturate larger areas to retain overall saturation 
balance, or should I target just the out of gamut colors, and work with assorted 
tools to bring them in? That type of thing...

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Test image

2006-03-21 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/20/06 6:24:01 AM, ttrostel@... writes:



I did get some very nasty banding effects and color shift
interestingly to orange on the Crane paper if I used Velvet Fine Art
as the media. It smooths out and gets a lot better (though not
perfect) using the 729 patch target. Even with that though it still
has some minor banding and a shift. If however it is printed with
the Enhanced Matte setting everything looks perfect.


Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by randy

keep us posted. I am trying to figure out where to go with this myself.

randy

S. Prior wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> My thread got a bit hyjacked, but I just wanted everyone to know that  
> Xun was able to fixed my blue issues with his monaco....  it came out 
> really really nice, just about perfect. 
>
> Thank you! 
>
> I am really frustrated with this product, I still have two other 
> printers to profile and two more papers and I am sure I will be 
> running into the same issue.  I need to get colorvision on the phone...
>
> Scott
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
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Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by randy

Again, what was your paper and ink?

S. Prior wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> Will do, they don't seem to be responding to my emails, so I have to 
> take some time out and get them on the phone. 
>  
> As a side note, I did not have any issues with that image you sent, 
> even with my old PFP profile.
>  
> Scott
>
>  
> On 3/21/06, randy <rlphoto@... <mailto:rlphoto@...>> wrote:
>
>     keep us posted. I am trying to figure out where to go with this
>     myself.
>
>     randy
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
> Digital photography software 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+software&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=vcZVcv11-RF9aChCrpL-cA> 
> 	Digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=NPMG-BjOjJWWWu1WTDecRQ> 
> 	Digital photography course 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Digital+photography+course&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=GPs-R_fGq5Hih2NpQczQ8g> 
>
> Photography school 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Photography+school&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=pj3cKQlkMhgkqUXNMJjiCw> 
> 	Professional digital photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Professional+digital+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=k7x9GYFzNn4NfJTZP-Vt_g> 
> 	Stock photography 
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Stock+photography&w1=Digital+photography+software&w2=Digital+photography&w3=Digital+photography+course&w4=Photography+school&w5=Professional+digital+photography&w6=Stock+photography&c=6&s=176&.sig=H9bHMH_cKn4LEqWkcUABgg> 
>
>
>
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Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by John Vitollo

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "S. Prior" <mamemarquees@...> wrote:
> Will do, they don't seem to be responding to my emails, so I have to take
> some time out and get them on the phone.
> As a side note, I did not have any issues with that image you sent, even
> with my old PFP profile.
> Scott

I too had no problems printing Randy's image through a PFP profile, but I don't have his 
printer/ink/paper combo so it could be a moot point.

Just a reminder that this forum is a user to user forum, it's not supported by ColorVision. So 
if there are major issues please contact ColorVision directly. 

We still want to hear everyone's issues - good and bad - on this list! 

For a product only one month old it's surprising stable and for most users giving excellent 
results.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by randy

I am hoping that this blue issue is only going to be in a few isolated 
cases and limited to ultrachrome pigment/glossy type photo paper 
combos.  My epson utrachrome / epson premium luster photo paper is my 
bread and butter, and I am reluctant to start mixing off brand papers, 
because the lightfastness suffers.  So this profile need to be perfect.  
When ever I have the time to start playing around with matte papers I am 
not anticipating any issues.   It give me hope to know that others are 
not experiencing these problems.

Randy

John Vitollo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "S. Prior" <mamemarquees@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>Will do, they don't seem to be responding to my emails, so I have to take
>>some time out and get them on the phone.
>>As a side note, I did not have any issues with that image you sent, even
>>with my old PFP profile.
>>Scott
>>    
>>
>
>I too had no problems printing Randy's image through a PFP profile, but I don't have his 
>printer/ink/paper combo so it could be a moot point.
>
>Just a reminder that this forum is a user to user forum, it's not supported by ColorVision. So 
>if there are major issues please contact ColorVision directly. 
>
>We still want to hear everyone's issues - good and bad - on this list! 
>
>For a product only one month old it's surprising stable and for most users giving excellent 
>results. 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by John Vitollo

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> John and Tom,
> Could you do us a favor to softproof the "Eagle Lake" picture from Joseph
> Homes Gallery? -> http://www.josephholmes.com/pages/030.html
> Use profiles made for Glossy or Luster to softproof, 
> If you see -no change- towards pink/reddish in the "Eagle Lake's" blue area
> when you softproof it, it'll be pretty clear to us that you really don't
> have problem with blue, then it is -not- a general problem with PFP
> profiles, at least not all of them... just want to nail down the source.
> xun

Ok I just soft proofed "Eagle Lake"  with my ILford Pearl Smooth profile, no change to pink or 
red. 

Geez talk about over satuation! The blue in the water hurts my eyes.

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by randy

For what it is worth my epson luster profile shifts it tward magenta and 
lightens it considerably

Randy Laskody

John Vitollo wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>  
>
>>John and Tom,
>>Could you do us a favor to softproof the "Eagle Lake" picture from Joseph
>>Homes Gallery? -> http://www.josephholmes.com/pages/030.html
>>Use profiles made for Glossy or Luster to softproof, 
>>If you see -no change- towards pink/reddish in the "Eagle Lake's" blue area
>>when you softproof it, it'll be pretty clear to us that you really don't
>>have problem with blue, then it is -not- a general problem with PFP
>>profiles, at least not all of them... just want to nail down the source.
>>xun
>>    
>>
>
>Ok I just soft proofed "Eagle Lake"  with my ILford Pearl Smooth profile, no change to pink or 
>red. 
>
>Geez talk about over satuation! The blue in the water hurts my eyes.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> John and Tom,
> Could you do us a favor to softproof the "Eagle Lake" picture from
Joseph
> Homes Gallery? -> http://www.josephholmes.com/pages/030.html
> Use profiles made for Glossy or Luster to softproof, the Matte or
Fine art
> doesn't have wide enough gamut and we're not testing out of gamut
> performance here...
> Randy's case is a bit extreme I think. Even I have no problem with
center
> part of the portrait(well, faces hair & light blue), it is only on the
> darkened edge you'll notice it.
> 
> If you see -no change- towards pink/reddish in the "Eagle Lake's"
blue area
> when you softproof it, it'll be pretty clear to us that you really don't
> have problem with blue, then it is -not- a general problem with PFP
> profiles, at least not all of them... just want to nail down the source.
> 
> xun
> 

Sure thing.  I'm at work right now but I can try it when I get home.

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "xun wang" <xun911@...> wrote:
>
> John and Tom,
> Could you do us a favor to softproof the "Eagle Lake" picture from
Joseph
> Homes Gallery? -> http://www.josephholmes.com/pages/030.html
> Use profiles made for Glossy or Luster to softproof, the Matte or
Fine art
> doesn't have wide enough gamut and we're not testing out of gamut
> performance here...
> Randy's case is a bit extreme I think. Even I have no problem with
center
> part of the portrait(well, faces hair & light blue), it is only on the
> darkened edge you'll notice it.
> 

HAH ... I do have my profile for Epson RW Watercolor.  In the dark
blue yes I do see a shift.  The JPEG had no profile so I just gave it
sRGB.  I'll dive back in and see what L*a*b values are giving us greif.

Very interesting ... Now I can see what you're talking about.  I'll
test it out with the other papers I have.

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by Tom

I put a new test image in the files area called L17BlueRamp.jpg.  This
one is sort of a limited rainbow (blue) which demonstrates where my
profiles start to exhibit the blue ramp issue.  It also shows other
non-linearities in that area.

Hope that helps 

Tom

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by John Vitollo

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <ttrostel@...> wrote:
> I put a new test image in the files area called L17BlueRamp.jpg.  This
> one is sort of a limited rainbow (blue) which demonstrates where my
> profiles start to exhibit the blue ramp issue.  It also shows other
> non-linearities in that area.

My PFP built profile for ILford Pearl did not shift the blue to purple or red while softproofing.

But I tried softproofing using Bill Atkinson's profiles...many shifted the blue towards red...try 
it!

http://homepage.mac.com/billatkinson/FileSharing2.html

Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by Tom

--- In colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com, "John Vitollo" <jvlist@...> 
> My PFP built profile for ILford Pearl did not shift the blue to
purple or red while softproofing.
> 
> But I tried softproofing using Bill Atkinson's profiles...many
shifted the blue towards red...try 
> it!
> 
> http://homepage.mac.com/billatkinson/FileSharing2.html
>

It's deliberately a fairly vicious test.  I'm not sure at what hue
angle the blue/purple shift is most visible.  I might want to rotate
it a little bit to be completely unfair ;-)

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/21/06 1:05:34 PM, jvlist@... writes:


Ok I just soft proofed "Eagle Lake" with my ILford Pearl Smooth profile, no change to pink or
red.

Geez talk about over satuation! The blue in the water hurts my eyes.


Yes, Joe is a fan of deep, saturated blues from the Ektachrome days... but even so, its difficult to be sure this is being done properly. This is an untagged image on the web, which would indicate it should be defined as sRGB; if you define it as AdobeRGB, you just exaggerated the color saturation unintentionally. But I find, for a range of PrintFIX PRO Gloss, Luster, and Matte profiles, that there is no magenta cast to the blues in this image whether I assign sRGB (which is very saturatated) or AdobeRGB (which is even more over the top). I've spent a good deal of time at Eagle lake, and it has never been anything close to the colors in this image... my experience is that artifically saturating an image can create problems with expecting it to behave normally and photographically later, but in this case, despite the saturation, I don't see a visible color shift when softproofed.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by CDTobie@aol.com


In a message dated 3/21/06 1:15:46 PM, rlphoto@... writes:


For what it is worth my epson luster profile shifts it tward magenta and
lightens it considerably


We would expect that... consistancy is a virtue in ICC profiles. Once I'm back in the office, I'll take a look at your profile, data file, and sample image, and see if there is anything I can tell from them.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com

Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-03-21 by randy

This is good!  Thanks for the help!

Randy

CDTobie@... wrote:
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>
> In a message dated 3/21/06 1:15:46 PM, rlphoto@... writes:
>
>
>> For what it is worth my epson luster profile shifts it tward magenta and
>> lightens it considerably
>
>
>
> We would expect that... consistancy is a virtue in ICC profiles. Once 
> I'm back in the office, I'll take a look at your profile, data file, 
> and sample image, and see if there is anything I can tell from them.
>
> C. David Tobie
> Product Technology Manager
> ColorVision, Inc.
> CDTobie@...
> www.colorvision.com
>
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Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

2006-04-10 by CDTobie@aol.com

If you haven't heard back in three weeks, then I'd say you aren't on 
the  list; their response time is a day or two. They would just refer 
you to me anyways; and I'm flying back to the US tomorrow, so I'll be 
in a better position to do testing and documentation later this week.

C. David Tobie
Product Technology Manager
ColorVision, Inc.
CDTobie@...
www.colorvision.com
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: S. Prior <mamemarquees@gmail.com>
To: colorvision_group@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sun, 9 Apr 2006 13:38:10 -0400
Subject: Re: [colorvision_group] Re: Printfix Pro and blues

    Here is the latest...

I still never got a reply from my support email to CV after 3 weeks....

Tobie, responded to my direct email, but has not had the time to look 
at my issue with him traveling to the UK over the past two weeks....

Xun was able to take my profile and fix the blues for my two primary 
papers, so that has helped get me through that past three weeks (thanks 
again Xun)

If anyone has any other suggestions on how to get the attention of CV, 
it is frustrating to  buy a product for $500 and then need a third 
party to make it work for me..

Scott

On 3/21/06, S. Prior <mamemarquees@...> wrote: My thread got a 
bit hyjacked, but I just wanted everyone to know that  Xun was able to 
fixed my blue issues with his monaco....  it came out really really 
nice, just about perfect. 

Thank you! 

I am really frustrated with this product, I still have two other 
printers to profile and two more papers and I am sure I will be running 
into the same issue.  I need to get colorvision on the phone...

Scott






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