Yamaha DTXpress/DTXplorer/DTXtreme

Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for the 
DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can coordinate who wants 
to tackle what, in generating a program for seting up/changing 
settings on a PC.

OGD

Can you post the information to the website or the files area 
here?

    While I reluctantly admit that I have the skills/experience to 
handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, mucking with 
bits in files):

    a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a system for 
testing.

    b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate to such a 
task.

    That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can get an idea 
of the level of effort.  If I were to put something together, I'd 
likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be SOL.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for the 
> DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can coordinate who 
wants 

> to tackle what, in generating a program for seting up/changing 
> settings on a PC.
> 
> OGD

I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in the files 
section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly complicated.  
Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
straightforward to build an application to manage this information.  
Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP arrives and 
allocate a weekend or two to the task.

    What would people like to see in this application?

    A few ideas I had:
    - XML (text based) format export/import so that people can hand 
modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
    - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a really large 
(limited only by disk space) db of these items and then pick and 
choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite loads.
    - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and modify params 
for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  Should be able to 
do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
    - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.

    Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a weekend or 
two of work...

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     Can you post the information to the website or the files area 
> here?
> 
>     While I reluctantly admit that I have the skills/experience to 
> handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, mucking with 
> bits in files):
> 
>     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a system for 
> testing.
> 
>     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate to such a 
> task.
> 
>     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can get an 
idea 
> of the level of effort.  If I were to put something together, I'd 
> likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be SOL.
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> 
wrote:

> > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for the 
> > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can coordinate who 
> wants 
> > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting up/changing 
> > settings on a PC.
> > 
> > OGD

These are all excellent ideas. 

From my point of view, with three modules, just being able to 
upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one module at 
a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 percent 
improvement.

I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time on your 
hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to keep if 
basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly complicated, 
trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not get 
finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 

At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The problem was that 
a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just never got 
complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that does the job 
and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the perfect 
program, we would still be waiting and doing the calculations 
manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over the 
years, as time became available and it is still being used.

Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress I/II/III, it 
maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted for use 
with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex program 
for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, I fully 
understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating on it.

But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty factor and 
your available time.

If there are any specific technical information or question that you 
need as your are working through the programming task, I can pass 
them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my requests as a 
moderator here, very quickly.



OldGuyDrummer (OGD)



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
<monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> 
> Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), you should 
do with an editor/librarian :
> 
> As a librarian :
> 
> - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial dumps : 
only a song, a kit....)
> - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> - move, switch or delete elements
> - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if you're adding 
stuff (comments, other informations)
> 
> As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-click on an 
element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when you're 
tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending realtime sysex, 
and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the module.
> but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in realtime, 
so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and then you 
can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems are 
working with this second option.
> 
> For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
editor/librarian here : http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> You can also download and try the demo version of Midiquest, a 
multi synth editor librarian  : 
http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> 
> Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under Java, I 
would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source Universal 
Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java Language. : 
http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> 
> Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, or at 
least grab some code parts if you want to start from scratch...
> 
> (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for translating a 
midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex as a 
song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> 
> Hope this can help
> 
> Regards, 
> 
> Benoit
> 
> 
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: jjcorley0000 
>   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
>   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> 
> 
> 
>       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in the 
files 
>   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
complicated.  
>   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
>   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
information.  
>   Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP arrives 
and 
>   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> 
>       What would people like to see in this application?
> 
>       A few ideas I had:
>       - XML (text based) format export/import so that people can 
hand 
>   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
>       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a really 
large 
>   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then pick and 
>   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite loads.
>       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and modify 
params 
>   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  Should be 
able to 
>   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
>       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> 
>       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a weekend 
or 
>   two of work...
> 
>   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
>   > 
>   >     Can you post the information to the website or the files 
area 
>   > here?
>   > 
>   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the skills/experience 
to 
>   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, mucking 
with 
>   > bits in files):
>   > 
>   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a system 
for 
>   > testing.
>   > 
>   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate to 
such a 
>   > task.
>   > 
>   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can get an 
>   idea 
>   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something together, 
I'd 
>   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be SOL.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> 
>   wrote:
>   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for the 
>   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can coordinate 
who 
>   > wants 
>   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
up/changing

I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering requirements" 
phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  I 
definately plan to start small and see what happens from there.

    Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with GPL) that I 
don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will offer the 
application for free, but not via the GPL.

    I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The formats 
between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't be too 
much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will only 
have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind if their 
settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I get to 
that stage.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> These are all excellent ideas. 
> 
> From my point of view, with three modules, just being able to 
> upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one module 
at 
> a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 percent 
> improvement.
> 
> I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time on 
your 
> hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to keep 
if 
> basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
complicated, 
> trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not get 
> finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
> 
> At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
> program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The problem was 
that 
> a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just never got 
> complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that does the 
job 
> and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the perfect 
> program, we would still be waiting and doing the calculations 
> manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over the 
> years, as time became available and it is still being used.
> 
> Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress I/II/III, 
it 
> maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted for 
use 
> with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex program 
> for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, I 
fully 
> understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating on it.
> 
> But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty factor 
and 
> your available time.
> 
> If there are any specific technical information or question that 
you 
> need as your are working through the programming task, I can pass 
> them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my requests as 
a 
> moderator here, very quickly.
> 
> 
> 
> OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> > 
> > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), you 
should 
> do with an editor/librarian :
> > 
> > As a librarian :
> > 
> > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial dumps : 
> only a song, a kit....)
> > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> > - move, switch or delete elements
> > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if you're 
adding 
> stuff (comments, other informations)
> > 
> > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-click on 
an 
> element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when you're 
> tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending realtime 
sysex, 
> and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the module.
> > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in 
realtime, 
> so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and then you 
> can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems are 
> working with this second option.
> > 
> > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
> editor/librarian here : http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> > You can also download and try the demo version of Midiquest, a 
> multi synth editor librarian  : 
> http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> > 
> > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under Java, 
I 
> would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source 
Universal 
> Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
Language. : 
> http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> > 
> > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, or at 
> least grab some code parts if you want to start from scratch...
> > 
> > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
translating a 
> midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex as a 
> song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> > 
> > Hope this can help
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > 
> > Benoit
> > 
> > 
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: jjcorley0000 
> >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
> >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in the 
> files 
> >   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
> complicated.  
> >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
> >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
> information.  
> >   Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP 
arrives 
> and 
> >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> > 
> >       What would people like to see in this application?
> > 
> >       A few ideas I had:
> >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that people can 
> hand 
> >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
> >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a really 
> large 
> >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then pick 
and 
> >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite loads.
> >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and modify 
> params 
> >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  Should be 
> able to 
> >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
> >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> > 
> >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a 
weekend 
> or 
> >   two of work...
> > 
> >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
wrote:
> >   > 
> >   >     Can you post the information to the website or the files 
> area 
> >   > here?
> >   > 
> >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
skills/experience 
> to 
> >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, 
mucking 
> with 
> >   > bits in files):
> >   > 
> >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a 
system 
> for 
> >   > testing.
> >   > 
> >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate to 
> such a 
> >   > task.
> >   > 
> >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can get 
an 
> >   idea 
> >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
together, 
> I'd 
> >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be SOL.
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
<rdamon@m...> 
> >   wrote:
> >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for 
the 

> >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can coordinate 
> who 
> >   > wants 
> >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
> up/changing

I would be more than happy at being a tester for the Dtxpress II 
module version. 

OGD


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering requirements" 
> phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  I 
> definately plan to start small and see what happens from there.
> 
>     Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with GPL) that 
I 
> don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will offer the 
> application for free, but not via the GPL.
> 
>     I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The formats 
> between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't be too 
> much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will only 
> have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind if their 
> settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I get to 
> that stage.
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> 
wrote:
> > These are all excellent ideas. 
> > 
> > From my point of view, with three modules, just being able to 
> > upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one module 
> at 
> > a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 percent 
> > improvement.
> > 
> > I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time on 
> your 
> > hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to keep 
> if 
> > basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
> complicated, 
> > trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not get 
> > finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
> > 
> > At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
> > program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The problem was 
> that 
> > a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just never got 
> > complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that does the 
> job 
> > and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the perfect 
> > program, we would still be waiting and doing the calculations 
> > manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over the 
> > years, as time became available and it is still being used.
> > 
> > Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress I/II/III, 
> it 
> > maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted for 
> use 
> > with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex 
program 
> > for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, I 
> fully 
> > understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating on it.
> > 
> > But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty factor 
> and 
> > your available time.
> > 
> > If there are any specific technical information or question that 
> you 
> > need as your are working through the programming task, I can pass 
> > them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my requests as 
> a 
> > moderator here, very quickly.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > > Hi all,
> > > 
> > > 
> > > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), you 
> should 
> > do with an editor/librarian :
> > > 
> > > As a librarian :
> > > 
> > > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial dumps : 
> > only a song, a kit....)
> > > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> > > - move, switch or delete elements
> > > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> > > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if you're 
> adding 
> > stuff (comments, other informations)
> > > 
> > > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-click 
on 
> an 
> > element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> > > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> > > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when you're 
> > tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending realtime 
> sysex, 
> > and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the module.
> > > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in 
> realtime, 
> > so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and then 
you 
> > can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems are 
> > working with this second option.
> > > 
> > > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
> > editor/librarian here : http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> > > You can also download and try the demo version of Midiquest, a 
> > multi synth editor librarian  : 
> > http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> > > 
> > > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under Java, 
> I 
> > would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source 
> Universal 
> > Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
> Language. : 
> > http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> > > 
> > > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, or at 
> > least grab some code parts if you want to start from scratch...
> > > 
> > > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
> translating a 
> > midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex as a 
> > song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> > > 
> > > Hope this can help
> > > 
> > > Regards, 
> > > 
> > > Benoit
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
> > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in the 
> > files 
> > >   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
> > complicated.  
> > >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
> > >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
> > information.  
> > >   Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP 
> arrives 
> > and 
> > >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> > > 
> > >       What would people like to see in this application?
> > > 
> > >       A few ideas I had:
> > >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that people 
can 
> > hand 
> > >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
> > >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a really 
> > large 
> > >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then pick 
> and 
> > >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite loads.
> > >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and modify 
> > params 
> > >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  Should be 
> > able to 
> > >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
> > >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> > > 
> > >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a 
> weekend 
> > or 
> > >   two of work...
> > > 
> > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
> wrote:
> > >   > 
> > >   >     Can you post the information to the website or the 
files 
> > area 
> > >   > here?
> > >   > 
> > >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
> skills/experience 
> > to 
> > >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, 
> mucking 
> > with 
> > >   > bits in files):
> > >   > 
> > >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a 
> system 
> > for 
> > >   > testing.
> > >   > 
> > >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate to 
> > such a 
> > >   > task.
> > >   > 
> > >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can 
get 
> an 
> > >   idea 
> > >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
> together, 
> > I'd 
> > >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be SOL.
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
> <rdamon@m...> 
> > >   wrote:
> > >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for 
> the 
> > >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can 
coordinate 

> > who 
> > >   > wants 
> > >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
> > up/changing

Thanks for the offer, I'll definately be posting once I get 
started with this project.  And now we wait for the IIISP...


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> I would be more than happy at being a tester for the Dtxpress II 
> module version. 
> 
> OGD
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > 
> >     I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering requirements" 
> > phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  I 
> > definately plan to start small and see what happens from there.
> > 
> >     Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with GPL) 
that 
> I 
> > don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will offer 
the 
> > application for free, but not via the GPL.
> > 
> >     I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The formats 
> > between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't be 
too 
> > much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will only 
> > have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind if 
their 
> > settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I get 
to 
> > that stage.
> > 
> > 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> 
> wrote:
> > > These are all excellent ideas. 
> > > 
> > > From my point of view, with three modules, just being able to 
> > > upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one 
module 
> > at 
> > > a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 percent 
> > > improvement.
> > > 
> > > I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time on 
> > your 
> > > hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to 
keep 
> > if 
> > > basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
> > complicated, 
> > > trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not get 
> > > finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
> > > 
> > > At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
> > > program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The problem 
was 
> > that 
> > > a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just never 
got 
> > > complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that does 
the 
> > job 
> > > and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the perfect 
> > > program, we would still be waiting and doing the calculations 
> > > manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over the 
> > > years, as time became available and it is still being used.
> > > 
> > > Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress 
I/II/III, 
> > it 
> > > maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted for 
> > use 
> > > with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex 
> program 
> > > for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, I 
> > fully 
> > > understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating on it.
> > > 
> > > But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty 
factor 
> > and 
> > > your available time.
> > > 
> > > If there are any specific technical information or question 
that 
> > you 
> > > need as your are working through the programming task, I can 
pass 
> > > them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my requests 
as 
> > a 
> > > moderator here, very quickly.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> > > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > > > Hi all,
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), you 
> > should 
> > > do with an editor/librarian :
> > > > 
> > > > As a librarian :
> > > > 
> > > > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial 
dumps : 
> > > only a song, a kit....)
> > > > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> > > > - move, switch or delete elements
> > > > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> > > > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if you're 
> > adding 
> > > stuff (comments, other informations)
> > > > 
> > > > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-click 
> on 
> > an 
> > > element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> > > > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> > > > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when you're 
> > > tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending realtime 
> > sysex, 
> > > and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the module.
> > > > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in 
> > realtime, 
> > > so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and then 
> you 
> > > can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems are 
> > > working with this second option.
> > > > 
> > > > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
> > > editor/librarian here : 
http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> > > > You can also download and try the demo version of Midiquest, 
a 
> > > multi synth editor librarian  : 
> > > http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> > > > 
> > > > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under 
Java, 
> > I 
> > > would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source 
> > Universal 
> > > Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
> > Language. : 
> > > http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> > > > 
> > > > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, or 
at 
> > > least grab some code parts if you want to start from scratch...
> > > > 
> > > > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
> > translating a 
> > > midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex as 
a 
> > > song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> > > > 
> > > > Hope this can help
> > > > 
> > > > Regards, 
> > > > 
> > > > Benoit
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> > > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> > > >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
> > > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in 
the 
> > > files 
> > > >   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
> > > complicated.  
> > > >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
> > > >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
> > > information.  
> > > >   Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP 
> > arrives 
> > > and 
> > > >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> > > > 
> > > >       What would people like to see in this application?
> > > > 
> > > >       A few ideas I had:
> > > >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that people 
> can 
> > > hand 
> > > >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
> > > >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a 
really 
> > > large 
> > > >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then 
pick 
> > and 
> > > >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite loads.
> > > >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and 
modify 
> > > params 
> > > >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  Should 
be 
> > > able to 
> > > >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
> > > >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> > > > 
> > > >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a 
> > weekend 
> > > or 
> > > >   two of work...
> > > > 
> > > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
> > wrote:
> > > >   > 
> > > >   >     Can you post the information to the website or the 
> files 
> > > area 
> > > >   > here?
> > > >   > 
> > > >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
> > skills/experience 
> > > to 
> > > >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, 
> > mucking 
> > > with 
> > > >   > bits in files):
> > > >   > 
> > > >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a 
> > system 
> > > for 
> > > >   > testing.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate 
to 
> > > such a 
> > > >   > task.
> > > >   > 
> > > >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can 
> get 
> > an 
> > > >   idea 
> > > >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
> > together, 
> > > I'd 
> > > >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be 
SOL.

> > > >   > 
> > > >   > 
> > > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
> > <rdamon@m...> 
> > > >   wrote:
> > > >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for 
> > the 
> > > >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can 
> coordinate 
> > > who 
> > > >   > wants 
> > > >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
> > > up/changing

My only issue with the DTXpress I is that we've only got the II 
and III formats so far... unless someone knows where we can find 
the "I" format.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
<monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> I'm a synth player, but I often visit a friend who has a DTXpress 
II. I know another one who has a DTXpress I (but harder to get the 
hands on).
> So of you need to have some tests done on one of these modules, 
I'll be also very happy to help.
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Benoit
>   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   From: jjcorley0000 
>   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
>   Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:30 PM
>   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> 
> 
> 
>       I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering requirements" 
>   phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  I 
>   definately plan to start small and see what happens from there.
> 
>       Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with GPL) 
that I 
>   don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will offer 
the 
>   application for free, but not via the GPL.
> 
>       I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The formats 
>   between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't be 
too 
>   much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will only 
>   have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind if 
their 
>   settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I get 
to 
>   that stage.
> 
> 
>   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> 
wrote:
>   > These are all excellent ideas. 
>   > 
>   > From my point of view, with three modules, just being able to 
>   > upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one 
module 
>   at 
>   > a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 percent 
>   > improvement.
>   > 
>   > I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time on 
>   your 
>   > hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to 
keep 
>   if 
>   > basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
>   complicated, 
>   > trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not get 
>   > finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
>   > 
>   > At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
>   > program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The problem 
was 
>   that 
>   > a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just never 
got 
>   > complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that does 
the 
>   job 
>   > and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the perfect 
>   > program, we would still be waiting and doing the calculations 
>   > manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over the 
>   > years, as time became available and it is still being used.
>   > 
>   > Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress 
I/II/III, 
>   it 
>   > maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted for 
>   use 
>   > with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex 
program 
>   > for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, I 
>   fully 
>   > understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating on it.
>   > 
>   > But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty 
factor 
>   and 
>   > your available time.
>   > 
>   > If there are any specific technical information or question 
that 
>   you 
>   > need as your are working through the programming task, I can 
pass 
>   > them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my requests 
as 
>   a 
>   > moderator here, very quickly.
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
>   > 
>   > 
>   > 
>   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
>   > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
>   > > Hi all,
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), you 
>   should 
>   > do with an editor/librarian :
>   > > 
>   > > As a librarian :
>   > > 
>   > > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial 
dumps : 
>   > only a song, a kit....)
>   > > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
>   > > - move, switch or delete elements
>   > > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
>   > > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if you're 
>   adding 
>   > stuff (comments, other informations)
>   > > 
>   > > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-click 
on 
>   an 
>   > element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
>   > > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
>   > > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when you're 
>   > tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending realtime 
>   sysex, 
>   > and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the module.
>   > > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in 
>   realtime, 
>   > so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and then 
you 
>   > can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems are 
>   > working with this second option.
>   > > 
>   > > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
>   > editor/librarian here : 
http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
>   > > You can also download and try the demo version of Midiquest, 
a 
>   > multi synth editor librarian  : 
>   > http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
>   > > 
>   > > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under 
Java, 
>   I 
>   > would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source 
>   Universal 
>   > Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
>   Language. : 
>   > http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
>   > > 
>   > > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, or 
at 
>   > least grab some code parts if you want to start from scratch...
>   > > 
>   > > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
>   translating a 
>   > midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex as 
a 
>   > song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
>   > > 
>   > > Hope this can help
>   > > 
>   > > Regards, 
>   > > 
>   > > Benoit
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
>   > >   From: jjcorley0000 
>   > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
>   > >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
>   > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > > 
>   > >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in 
the 
>   > files 
>   > >   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
>   > complicated.  
>   > >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
>   > >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
>   > information.  
>   > >   Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP 
>   arrives 
>   > and 
>   > >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
>   > > 
>   > >       What would people like to see in this application?
>   > > 
>   > >       A few ideas I had:
>   > >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that people 
can 
>   > hand 
>   > >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
>   > >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a 
really 
>   > large 
>   > >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then 
pick 
>   and 
>   > >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite loads.
>   > >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and 
modify 
>   > params 
>   > >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  Should 
be 
>   > able to 
>   > >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
>   > >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
>   > > 
>   > >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a 
>   weekend 
>   > or 
>   > >   two of work...
>   > > 
>   > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> 
>   wrote:
>   > >   > 
>   > >   >     Can you post the information to the website or the 
files 
>   > area 
>   > >   > here?
>   > >   > 
>   > >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
>   skills/experience 
>   > to 
>   > >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, 
>   mucking 
>   > with 
>   > >   > bits in files):
>   > >   > 
>   > >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a 
>   system 
>   > for 
>   > >   > testing.
>   > >   > 
>   > >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really dedicate 
to 
>   > such a 
>   > >   > task.
>   > >   > 
>   > >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I can 
get 
>   an 
>   > >   idea 
>   > >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
>   together, 
>   > I'd 
>   > >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be 
SOL.
>   > >   > 
>   > >   > 
>   > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
>   <rdamon@m...> 
>   > >   wrote:
>   > >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha for 
>   the 
>   > >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can 
coordinate 
>   > who 
>   > >   > wants 
>   > >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
>   > up/changing
> 
> 
> 
>   Community email addresses:
>     Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
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> 
>   Shortcut URL to this page:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> 
>   Alternate DTXpress site:
>     http://www.dtxpressions.com 
> 
> 
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Service.

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     My only issue with the DTXpress I is that we've only got the II 
> and III formats so far... unless someone knows where we can find 
> the "I" format.
> 
  What about the Xtreme formats? Should get them,if possible,as 
well!!  I'm sure all the Xtreme users out there would like to see the 
same sort of thing for it. After the Xpress one is done of course and 
we see how much it helps.

George



> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > I'm a synth player, but I often visit a friend who has a DTXpress 
> II. I know another one who has a DTXpress I (but harder to get the 
> hands on).
> > So of you need to have some tests done on one of these modules, 
> I'll be also very happy to help.
> > 
> > Regards,
> > 
> > Benoit
> >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   From: jjcorley0000 
> >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> >   Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:30 PM
> >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >       I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering 
requirements" 
> >   phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  I 
> >   definately plan to start small and see what happens from there.
> > 
> >       Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with GPL) 
> that I 
> >   don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will offer 
> the 
> >   application for free, but not via the GPL.
> > 
> >       I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The 
formats 
> >   between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't be 
> too 
> >   much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will 
only 
> >   have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind if 
> their 
> >   settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I get 
> to 
> >   that stage.
> > 
> > 
> >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> 
> wrote:
> >   > These are all excellent ideas. 
> >   > 
> >   > From my point of view, with three modules, just being able to 
> >   > upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one 
> module 
> >   at 
> >   > a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 
percent 
> >   > improvement.
> >   > 
> >   > I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time 
on 
> >   your 
> >   > hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to 
> keep 
> >   if 
> >   > basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
> >   complicated, 
> >   > trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not 
get 
> >   > finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
> >   > 
> >   > At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
> >   > program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The problem 
> was 
> >   that 
> >   > a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just never 
> got 
> >   > complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that does 
> the 
> >   job 
> >   > and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the 
perfect 
> >   > program, we would still be waiting and doing the calculations 
> >   > manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over 
the 
> >   > years, as time became available and it is still being used.
> >   > 
> >   > Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress 
> I/II/III, 
> >   it 
> >   > maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted 
for 
> >   use 
> >   > with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex 
> program 
> >   > for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, I 
> >   fully 
> >   > understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating on 
it.
> >   > 
> >   > But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty 
> factor 
> >   and 
> >   > your available time.
> >   > 
> >   > If there are any specific technical information or question 
> that 
> >   you 
> >   > need as your are working through the programming task, I can 
> pass 
> >   > them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my 
requests 
> as 
> >   a 
> >   > moderator here, very quickly.
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > 
> >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> >   > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> >   > > Hi all,
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), you 
> >   should 
> >   > do with an editor/librarian :
> >   > > 
> >   > > As a librarian :
> >   > > 
> >   > > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial 
> dumps : 
> >   > only a song, a kit....)
> >   > > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> >   > > - move, switch or delete elements
> >   > > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> >   > > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if you're 
> >   adding 
> >   > stuff (comments, other informations)
> >   > > 
> >   > > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-
click 
> on 
> >   an 
> >   > element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> >   > > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> >   > > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when you're 
> >   > tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending realtime 
> >   sysex, 
> >   > and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the module.
> >   > > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in 
> >   realtime, 
> >   > so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and 
then 
> you 
> >   > can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems 
are 
> >   > working with this second option.
> >   > > 
> >   > > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
> >   > editor/librarian here : 
> http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> >   > > You can also download and try the demo version of 
Midiquest, 
> a 
> >   > multi synth editor librarian  : 
> >   > http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> >   > > 
> >   > > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under 
> Java, 
> >   I 
> >   > would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source 
> >   Universal 
> >   > Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
> >   Language. : 
> >   > http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> >   > > 
> >   > > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, 
or 
> at 
> >   > least grab some code parts if you want to start from 
scratch...
> >   > > 
> >   > > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
> >   translating a 
> >   > midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex 
as 
> a 
> >   > song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> >   > > 
> >   > > Hope this can help
> >   > > 
> >   > > Regards, 
> >   > > 
> >   > > Benoit
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> >   > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> >   > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> >   > >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
> >   > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > > 
> >   > >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted in 
> the 
> >   > files 
> >   > >   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
> >   > complicated.  
> >   > >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
> >   > >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
> >   > information.  
> >   > >   Note that this will still have to wait until the DTXIIISP 
> >   arrives 
> >   > and 
> >   > >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> >   > > 
> >   > >       What would people like to see in this application?
> >   > > 
> >   > >       A few ideas I had:
> >   > >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that 
people 
> can 
> >   > hand 
> >   > >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
> >   > >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a 
> really 
> >   > large 
> >   > >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then 
> pick 
> >   and 
> >   > >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite 
loads.
> >   > >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and 
> modify 
> >   > params 
> >   > >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  
Should 
> be 
> >   > able to 
> >   > >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
> >   > >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> >   > > 
> >   > >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a 
> >   weekend 
> >   > or 
> >   > >   two of work...
> >   > > 
> >   > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" 
<jjc@s...> 
> >   wrote:
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   >     Can you post the information to the website or the 
> files 
> >   > area 
> >   > >   > here?
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
> >   skills/experience 
> >   > to 
> >   > >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, 
> >   mucking 
> >   > with 
> >   > >   > bits in files):
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have a 
> >   system 
> >   > for 
> >   > >   > testing.
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really 
dedicate 
> to 
> >   > such a 
> >   > >   > task.
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I 
can 
> get 
> >   an 
> >   > >   idea 
> >   > >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
> >   together, 
> >   > I'd 
> >   > >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't be 
> SOL.
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   > 
> >   > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
> >   <rdamon@m...> 
> >   > >   wrote:
> >   > >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha 
for 
> >   the 
> >   > >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can 
> coordinate 
> >   > who 
> >   > >   > wants 
> >   > >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
> >   > up/changing
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >   Community email addresses:
> >     Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> >     Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >     List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > 
> >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> > 
> >   Alternate DTXpress site:
> >     http://www.dtxpressions.com 
> > 
> > 
> >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> >               ADVERTISEMENT
> >              
> >        
> >        
> > 
> > 
> > ------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ----------
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > 
> >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress/
> >       
> >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> >     DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >       
> >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms 
of 
> Service.

I believe the Sysex info. for the Dtxtreme 1 is in the back of the 
manual and is available for downloading as a PDF from the Japanese 
Yamaha site.

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/ssdrums/DTXTREMEE2.pdf

It is about 1.3mb or I would upload it into the files area, which is 
getting pretty full. 

OGD



--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "G" <kickflippin@h...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > 
> >     My only issue with the DTXpress I is that we've only got the 
II 
> > and III formats so far... unless someone knows where we can find 
> > the "I" format.
> > 
>   What about the Xtreme formats? Should get them,if possible,as 
> well!!  I'm sure all the Xtreme users out there would like to see 
the 
> same sort of thing for it. After the Xpress one is done of course 
and 
> we see how much it helps.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > > I'm a synth player, but I often visit a friend who has a 
DTXpress 
> > II. I know another one who has a DTXpress I (but harder to get 
the 
> > hands on).
> > > So of you need to have some tests done on one of these modules, 
> > I'll be also very happy to help.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Benoit
> > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:30 PM
> > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering 
> requirements" 
> > >   phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  
I 
> > >   definately plan to start small and see what happens from 
there.
> > > 
> > >       Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with GPL) 
> > that I 
> > >   don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will 
offer 
> > the 
> > >   application for free, but not via the GPL.
> > > 
> > >       I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The 
> formats 
> > >   between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't 
be 
> > too 
> > >   much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will 
> only 
> > >   have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind if 
> > their 
> > >   settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I 
get 
> > to 
> > >   that stage.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
<rdamon@m...> 
> > wrote:
> > >   > These are all excellent ideas. 
> > >   > 
> > >   > From my point of view, with three modules, just being able 
to 
> > >   > upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one 
> > module 
> > >   at 
> > >   > a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 
> percent 
> > >   > improvement.
> > >   > 
> > >   > I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare time 
> on 
> > >   your 
> > >   > hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is to 
> > keep 
> > >   if 
> > >   > basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
> > >   complicated, 
> > >   > trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may not 
> get 
> > >   > finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
> > >   > 
> > >   > At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
> > >   > program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The 
problem 
> > was 
> > >   that 
> > >   > a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just 
never 
> > got 
> > >   > complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that 
does 
> > the 
> > >   job 
> > >   > and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the 
> perfect 
> > >   > program, we would still be waiting and doing the 
calculations 
> > >   > manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times over 
> the 
> > >   > years, as time became available and it is still being used.
> > >   > 
> > >   > Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress 
> > I/II/III, 
> > >   it 
> > >   > maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be adapted 
> for 
> > >   use 
> > >   > with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex 
> > program 
> > >   > for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress III, 
I 
> > >   fully 
> > >   > understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating 
on 
> it.
> > >   > 
> > >   > But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty 
> > factor 
> > >   and 
> > >   > your available time.
> > >   > 
> > >   > If there are any specific technical information or question 
> > that 
> > >   you 
> > >   > need as your are working through the programming task, I 
can 
> > pass 
> > >   > them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my 
> requests 
> > as 
> > >   a 
> > >   > moderator here, very quickly.
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> > >   > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > >   > > Hi all,
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), 
you 
> > >   should 
> > >   > do with an editor/librarian :
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > As a librarian :
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial 
> > dumps : 
> > >   > only a song, a kit....)
> > >   > > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> > >   > > - move, switch or delete elements
> > >   > > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> > >   > > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if 
you're 
> > >   adding 
> > >   > stuff (comments, other informations)
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-
> click 
> > on 
> > >   an 
> > >   > element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> > >   > > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> > >   > > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when 
you're 
> > >   > tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending 
realtime 
> > >   sysex, 
> > >   > and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the 
module.
> > >   > > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit in 
> > >   realtime, 
> > >   > so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and 
> then 
> > you 
> > >   > can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems 
> are 
> > >   > working with this second option.
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
> > >   > editor/librarian here : 
> > http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> > >   > > You can also download and try the demo version of 
> Midiquest, 
> > a 
> > >   > multi synth editor librarian  : 
> > >   > http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp under 
> > Java, 
> > >   I 
> > >   > would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open Source 
> > >   Universal 
> > >   > Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
> > >   Language. : 
> > >   > http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into Jsynthlib, 
> or 
> > at 
> > >   > least grab some code parts if you want to start from 
> scratch...
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
> > >   translating a 
> > >   > midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with sysex 
> as 
> > a 
> > >   > song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Hope this can help
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Regards, 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Benoit
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> > >   > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   > >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
> > >   > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted 
in 
> > the 
> > >   > files 
> > >   > >   section.  I read them over and they don't look terribly 
> > >   > complicated.  
> > >   > >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
> > >   > >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
> > >   > information.  
> > >   > >   Note that this will still have to wait until the 
DTXIIISP 
> > >   arrives 
> > >   > and 
> > >   > >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       What would people like to see in this application?
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       A few ideas I had:
> > >   > >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that 
> people 
> > can 
> > >   > hand 
> > >   > >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with them.
> > >   > >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a 
> > really 
> > >   > large 
> > >   > >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and then 
> > pick 
> > >   and 
> > >   > >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite 
> loads.
> > >   > >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and 
> > modify 
> > >   > params 
> > >   > >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  
> Should 
> > be 
> > >   > able to 
> > >   > >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
> > >   > >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than a 
> > >   weekend 
> > >   > or 
> > >   > >   two of work...
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" 
> <jjc@s...> 
> > >   wrote:
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     Can you post the information to the website or 
the 
> > files 
> > >   > area 
> > >   > >   > here?
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
> > >   skills/experience 
> > >   > to 
> > >   > >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded software, 
> > >   mucking 
> > >   > with 
> > >   > >   > bits in files):
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet have 
a 
> > >   system 
> > >   > for 
> > >   > >   > testing.
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really 
> dedicate 
> > to 
> > >   > such a 
> > >   > >   > task.
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I 
> can 
> > get 
> > >   an 
> > >   > >   idea 
> > >   > >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
> > >   together, 
> > >   > I'd 
> > >   > >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't 
be 
> > SOL.
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
> > >   <rdamon@m...> 
> > >   > >   wrote:
> > >   > >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from Yamaha 
> for 
> > >   the 
> > >   > >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can 
> > coordinate 
> > >   > who 
> > >   > >   > wants 
> > >   > >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
> > >   > up/changing
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   Community email addresses:
> > >     Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> > > 
> > >   Alternate DTXpress site:
> > >     http://www.dtxpressions.com 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > >               ADVERTISEMENT
> > >              
> > >        
> > >        
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ----------------------------------------------------------------
--
> --
> > ----------
> > >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress/
> > >       
> > >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >     DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >       
> > >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 
Terms 
> of 
> > Service.

On Tue, 27 Jan 2004 19:12:38 -0000, G wrote:
>\ufffd\ufffdWhat about the Xtreme formats? Should get them,if possible,as
>\ufffdwell!! \ufffdI'm sure all the Xtreme users out there would like to see the
>\ufffdsame sort of thing for it. After the Xpress one is done of course and
>\ufffdwe see how much it helps.

Yep, I am interested in the DTXtreme format since that's the module I
have and could (and would) test.

One of these days I really would like to get a DTXpress module just to
have and play with... 

Matt

Yep, frankly if the formats are relatively similar, once I go to 
the effort of being "multi-format" compatible supporting 2 vs. 4-5 
isn't much more work... accept for testing them.

    But I will need the format specs.  I'd love to have the formats 
for:
    - DTXpress (original)
    - DTX2.0
    - DTXtreme
    - DTXtreme2

    For those coders-types who are interested:  I'm likely going to 
create Java interfaces for Device, Kits, Drums, Triggers, Songs, 
etc.  Each of these will describe their parameters to the core 
program and internally "know" their correct MIDI codes to transmit 
param changes.  When the program connects to a device it will load 
the correct class tree for that device and query the interface to 
display the parameter pages.  When you make a parameter change it 
will ask the class behind the interface to generate the correct 
param change bytes, which the core program will just throw blind out 
to the MIDI port.  Since it makes no real sense to copy data between 
device types, they can be pretty independant entities.  I will 
likely create a persistor class that read/writes the parameter 
infomation to disk, just by querying a generic interface from which 
all the others inherit.  Hmmm, maybe I'll have two:  binary and XML 
format.

    As far as UI, I plan on keeping it dirt simple.  I've always 
liked the tools that had FEWER bells and whistles; just the stuff 
that I really need and a really quick way to do it.

    My only real concern at this point is that the javax.sound.midi 
interface support for SysEx seems like it is pretty new... i.e. it 
may be buggy or lack necessary features.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "G" <kickflippin@h...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > 
> >     My only issue with the DTXpress I is that we've only got the 
II 
> > and III formats so far... unless someone knows where we can find 
> > the "I" format.
> > 
>   What about the Xtreme formats? Should get them,if possible,as 
> well!!  I'm sure all the Xtreme users out there would like to see 
the 
> same sort of thing for it. After the Xpress one is done of course 
and 
> we see how much it helps.
> 
> George
> 
> 
> 
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > > I'm a synth player, but I often visit a friend who has a 
DTXpress 
> > II. I know another one who has a DTXpress I (but harder to get 
the 
> > hands on).
> > > So of you need to have some tests done on one of these 
modules, 
> > I'll be also very happy to help.
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > 
> > > Benoit
> > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   Sent: Monday, January 26, 2004 9:30 PM
> > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >       I certainly am very familiar with a "gathering 
> requirements" 
> > >   phase building up a set of goals that can never be reached.  
I 
> > >   definately plan to start small and see what happens from 
there.
> > > 
> > >       Its actually for that reason (and issues I have with 
GPL) 
> > that I 
> > >   don't plan on working within Jsynthlib.  I certainly will 
offer 
> > the 
> > >   application for free, but not via the GPL.
> > > 
> > >       I do plan on supporting all the DTXpress models.  The 
> formats 
> > >   between the II and III looking pretty close and it shouldn't 
be 
> > too 
> > >   much more effort... testing will be my only issue as I will 
> only 
> > >   have the III.  I'll need someone with a II, who won't mind 
if 
> > their 
> > >   settings get FUBAR'd, to do some beta testing for me when I 
get 
> > to 
> > >   that stage.
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
<rdamon@m...> 
> > wrote:
> > >   > These are all excellent ideas. 
> > >   > 
> > >   > From my point of view, with three modules, just being able 
to 
> > >   > upload/download the kit settings and trigger settings, one 
> > module 
> > >   at 
> > >   > a time, into the PC, and editing them, would be a 1000 
> percent 
> > >   > improvement.
> > >   > 
> > >   > I would just suggest that unless you have alot a spare 
time 
> on 
> > >   your 
> > >   > hands, which is probably not the case for most folks, is 
to 
> > keep 
> > >   if 
> > >   > basic and simple. If the project program becomes overly 
> > >   complicated, 
> > >   > trying to accommodate everybody's wishlist, then it may 
not 
> get 
> > >   > finished. (i.e. Drumb and Drumber Manual) 
> > >   > 
> > >   > At where I work, we would talk about generating a detail 
> > >   > program/shreadsheet for panelboard calculations. The 
problem 
> > was 
> > >   that 
> > >   > a gigantic wishlist was generated and the project just 
never 
> > got 
> > >   > complete. I went and generated a simple spreadsheet that 
does 
> > the 
> > >   job 
> > >   > and everybody is now using it. If we had waited for the 
> perfect 
> > >   > program, we would still be waiting and doing the 
calculations 
> > >   > manually. I have updated the spreadsheet a dozen times 
over 
> the 
> > >   > years, as time became available and it is still being used.
> > >   > 
> > >   > Since the Sysex, is slightly different for the Dtxpress 
> > I/II/III, 
> > >   it 
> > >   > maybe better to keep it simplier, so that it can be 
adapted 
> for 
> > >   use 
> > >   > with all these modules, as oppose, having just one complex 
> > program 
> > >   > for just one module. But if you end up with a dtxpress 
III, I 
> > >   fully 
> > >   > understand, spending you effect exclusively concentrating 
on 
> it.
> > >   > 
> > >   > But ultimately, you will have to decide on the difficulty 
> > factor 
> > >   and 
> > >   > your available time.
> > >   > 
> > >   > If there are any specific technical information or 
question 
> > that 
> > >   you 
> > >   > need as your are working through the programming task, I 
can 
> > pass 
> > >   > them onto Yamaha, as they seem to be responding to my 
> requests 
> > as 
> > >   a 
> > >   > moderator here, very quickly.
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > OldGuyDrummer (OGD)
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > 
> > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "Monsieur_Benoit" 
> > >   > <monsieur_benoit@y...> wrote:
> > >   > > Hi all,
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Basically, as far as I know about editor (for synths), 
you 
> > >   should 
> > >   > do with an editor/librarian :
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > As a librarian :
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > - open a sysex or request a dump (bulk dumps or partial 
> > dumps : 
> > >   > only a song, a kit....)
> > >   > > - view all the data on screen, in a big array for exemple
> > >   > > - move, switch or delete elements
> > >   > > - send the whole data, or just a part (a kit...)
> > >   > > - save the data, as sysex, and/or as proprietary if 
you're 
> > >   adding 
> > >   > stuff (comments, other informations)
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > As an editor (most of the time in librarian, you double-
> click 
> > on 
> > >   an 
> > >   > element to edit it and an editor window opens) / 
> > >   > > - change parameters (voices, effects...)
> > >   > > sometimes modules can accept realtime sysex, so when 
you're 
> > >   > tweaking the patch on your computer, you're sending 
realtime 
> > >   sysex, 
> > >   > and so editing the sound directly in the buffer of the 
module.
> > >   > > but for old synths, or simpler modules, you can't edit 
in 
> > >   realtime, 
> > >   > so you have to request a dump / edit / send the data, and 
> then 
> > you 
> > >   > can hear the difference. I guess that the DTXpress systems 
> are 
> > >   > working with this second option.
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > For examples, you can see some screenshots of a synth 
> > >   > editor/librarian here : 
> > http://www.soundtower.com/synth/triton.htm
> > >   > > You can also download and try the demo version of 
> Midiquest, 
> > a 
> > >   > multi synth editor librarian  : 
> > >   > http://www.squest.com/Windows/MidiQuest-About.html
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Finally, once again, as you're planning to developp 
under 
> > Java, 
> > >   I 
> > >   > would recommend to have a look at Jsynthlib, an Open 
Source 
> > >   Universal 
> > >   > Synthesizer Patch Editor / Librarian written in the Java 
> > >   Language. : 
> > >   > http://www.overwhelmed.org/jsynthlib/ 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Maybe you can add support of the DTXpress into 
Jsynthlib, 
> or 
> > at 
> > >   > least grab some code parts if you want to start from 
> scratch...
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > (another idea : I would maybe nice to have a tool for 
> > >   translating a 
> > >   > midifile into DTXpress language and then send it with 
sysex 
> as 
> > a 
> > >   > song... maybe a little bit out of the project)
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Hope this can help
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Regards, 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > Benoit
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >   ----- Original Message ----- 
> > >   > >   From: jjcorley0000 
> > >   > >   To: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com 
> > >   > >   Sent: Saturday, January 24, 2004 8:43 AM
> > >   > >   Subject: [DTXpress] Re: Sysex Bulk Dump Data
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       I noticed that the Sysex formats have been posted 
in 
> > the 
> > >   > files 
> > >   > >   section.  I read them over and they don't look 
terribly 
> > >   > complicated.  
> > >   > >   Using the javax.sound.midi package it should be fairly 
> > >   > >   straightforward to build an application to manage this 
> > >   > information.  
> > >   > >   Note that this will still have to wait until the 
DTXIIISP 
> > >   arrives 
> > >   > and 
> > >   > >   allocate a weekend or two to the task.
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       What would people like to see in this application?
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       A few ideas I had:
> > >   > >       - XML (text based) format export/import so that 
> people 
> > can 
> > >   > hand 
> > >   > >   modify files or write other utilities to muck with 
them.
> > >   > >       - A "my kits/songs/etc" so that you could create a 
> > really 
> > >   > large 
> > >   > >   (limited only by disk space) db of these items and 
then 
> > pick 
> > >   and 
> > >   > >   choose them for a certain "load".  + List of Favorite 
> loads.
> > >   > >       - The ability to multi-select items (ex: kits) and 
> > modify 
> > >   > params 
> > >   > >   for all selected items in one action (ex: volume).  
> Should 
> > be 
> > >   > able to 
> > >   > >   do this absolute (ex: set to 70) or relative (ex: +10).
> > >   > >       - Copy & Swap things from one kit to another.
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >       Hmmm, me thinks I'm talking myself into more than 
a 
> > >   weekend 
> > >   > or 
> > >   > >   two of work...
> > >   > > 
> > >   > >   --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" 
> <jjc@s...> 
> > >   wrote:
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     Can you post the information to the website or 
the 
> > files 
> > >   > area 
> > >   > >   > here?
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     While I reluctantly admit that I have the 
> > >   skills/experience 
> > >   > to 
> > >   > >   > handle such a task (Java/C++, GUI, embedded 
software, 
> > >   mucking 
> > >   > with 
> > >   > >   > bits in files):
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     a)  I'm waiting on the IIISP, so I don't yet 
have a 
> > >   system 
> > >   > for 
> > >   > >   > testing.
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     b)  I'm not sure how much time I can really 
> dedicate 
> > to 
> > >   > such a 
> > >   > >   > task.
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   >     That said, I'd like to see the data formats so I 
> can 
> > get 
> > >   an 
> > >   > >   idea 
> > >   > >   > of the level of effort.  If I were to put something 
> > >   together, 
> > >   > I'd 
> > >   > >   > likely do it in Java so our non-MS friends wouldn't 
be 
> > SOL.
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   > 
> > >   > >   > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" 
> > >   <rdamon@m...> 
> > >   > >   wrote:
> > >   > >   > > Ok, I now have the Sysex Bulk Dump Data from 
Yamaha 
> for 
> > >   the 
> > >   > >   > > DTxpressII and DtxpressIII. Let's see if we can 
> > coordinate 
> > >   > who 
> > >   > >   > wants 
> > >   > >   > > to tackle what, in generating a program for seting 
> > >   > up/changing
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >   Community email addresses:
> > >     Post message: DTXpress@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Subscribe:    DTXpress-subscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     Unsubscribe:  DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >     List owner:   DTXpress-owner@yahoogroups.com
> > > 
> > >   Shortcut URL to this page:
> > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress
> > > 
> > >   Alternate DTXpress site:
> > >     http://www.dtxpressions.com 
> > > 
> > > 
> > >         Yahoo! Groups Sponsor 
> > >               ADVERTISEMENT
> > >              
> > >        
> > >        
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ---------------------------------------------------------------
---
> --
> > ----------
> > >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > 
> > >     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > >     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DTXpress/
> > >       
> > >     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > >     DTXpress-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> > >       
> > >     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! 
Terms 
> of 
> > Service.

The Dtxpress/DTX2.0 should be easy to get. 

The Dtxtreme is available in the pdf manual at the Japanese Yamaha 
web site. It is in the back of the second manual on the site. It is 
1.3mb. I would put it in the files section, but we need to do a 
little maintenance, maybe move some of the older stuff to the 
Dtxpression site. (Vern/Ed are you reading this. Maybe move some of 
the non-Yamaha info. to the Dtxpression site, or I can just download 
and archive them to my local computer, along with the photos and 
archived posts I already have from here.) 

Here is the link:

http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/ssdrums/DTXTREMEE2.pdf

I will send an email to Yamaha for the Dtxpress/DTX2.0. As far as 
getting the Dtxtreme IIS files, I don't think they will release it 
until the kit is released in March. I have asked Jim Haler for a copy 
of the Manual for the Dtxtreme IIS, I he said he would let me know 
when it becomes available. Base on the fact that the Yamaha US group 
got their hands on the dtxtreme IIS module/kit just two days before 
NAMM in order to familirize themselves with it, it maybe that the 
final module settings may or may not be completed. 

OGD

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:

>     But I will need the format specs.  I'd love to have the formats 
> for:
>     - DTXpress (original)
>     - DTX2.0
>     - DTXtreme
>     - DTXtreme2
>

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     My only real concern at this point is that the javax.sound.midi 
> interface support for SysEx seems like it is pretty new... i.e. it 
> may be buggy or lack necessary features.
> 

While I was developing DTXport last year to do the same sort of Sysex 
viewing & editing I discovered a bug in javax.sound.midi that renders 
it useless for long messages. I had to include WinMMMidiProvider with 
my distribution to work around it.

Roger

Excellent!  I've pulled all the manuals down... you are correct: 
it appears that complete SysEx information appears toward the end of 
the DTXExtreme manual.  The DTXpress and DTX2.0 manuals have partial 
information, I'd be able to save and restore kits, drums, etc. but 
would not be able to edit the parameters.  So if we can get the 
complete SysEx info from Yamaha I think we'd have everything we'd 
need.

    Dang, I don't even have the kit yet and already its gonna start 
eating all of my free time.  ;)

    I'm going to get started creating some of the core classes in 
preparation.  I wonder if I can get one of the older modules cheap 
somewhere... it'd be nice to get started and when I get the full kit, 
and be able to test multiple modules.

    *Sang to the tune of AC/DC's "What Do You Do For Money Honey"*
    HON-EY! . .  I'VE GOT TO SPEND SOME MON-EY!


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "oldguydrummer" <rdamon@m...> wrote:
> The Dtxpress/DTX2.0 should be easy to get. 
> 
> The Dtxtreme is available in the pdf manual at the Japanese Yamaha 
> web site. It is in the back of the second manual on the site. It is 
> 1.3mb. I would put it in the files section, but we need to do a 
> little maintenance, maybe move some of the older stuff to the 
> Dtxpression site. (Vern/Ed are you reading this. Maybe move some of 
> the non-Yamaha info. to the Dtxpression site, or I can just 
download 
> and archive them to my local computer, along with the photos and 
> archived posts I already have from here.) 
> 
> Here is the link:
> 
> 
http://www2.yamaha.co.jp/manual/pdf/emi/english/ssdrums/DTXTREMEE2.pdf
> 
> I will send an email to Yamaha for the Dtxpress/DTX2.0. As far as 
> getting the Dtxtreme IIS files, I don't think they will release it 
> until the kit is released in March. I have asked Jim Haler for a 
copy 
> of the Manual for the Dtxtreme IIS, I he said he would let me know 
> when it becomes available. Base on the fact that the Yamaha US 
group 
> got their hands on the dtxtreme IIS module/kit just two days before 
> NAMM in order to familirize themselves with it, it maybe that the 
> final module settings may or may not be completed. 
> 
> OGD
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> >     But I will need the format specs.  I'd love to have the 
formats 

> > for:
> >     - DTXpress (original)
> >     - DTX2.0
> >     - DTXtreme
> >     - DTXtreme2
> >

Do you remember what version of the JDK you were using?  I'm 
reading that the 1.4.2 version is much better than previous 
incarnations.  From what I got off the Sun site 1.4.2 was released 
last June.

   hehe, nm, I think I just found the answer on Sun's site, under 
fixed bugs:

"4716324: MIDI Input fails for large system exclusive messages"

   I'll look into a bit.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ozteevan" <ozteevan@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > 
> >     My only real concern at this point is that the 
javax.sound.midi 
> > interface support for SysEx seems like it is pretty new... i.e. 
it 
> > may be buggy or lack necessary features.
> > 
> 
> While I was developing DTXport last year to do the same sort of 
Sysex 
> viewing & editing I discovered a bug in javax.sound.midi that 
renders 
> it useless for long messages. I had to include WinMMMidiProvider 
with 

> my distribution to work around it.
> 
> Roger

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     Do you remember what version of the JDK you were using?  I'm 
> reading that the 1.4.2 version is much better ...

I was using 1.4.1.02 and a pre-release of 1.4.2 and the bug had been 
marked as fixed and then re-opened. I hope you do find that it has 
finally been exterminated.

Roger

Hi,

I'm also in the process of developing an editor (for the DTXpress 
II, since that's all I have here). Being the dinosaur that I am 
however, I've opted for C++.  I've already written the code to 
request, load, save, open and send kits and am about to embark on 
the kit editor itself.  When that's done I'll do editors for 
triggers, system data and the user map.

A word of warning to those who follow, however, so far I have found 
a couple of errors in the sysex spec on the files area here so be 
vigilent.

I'm away on business next week but I hope to have the kit editor 
finished in about 2 weeks at which time I'd be interested in hearing 
from any DTXpress II users willing to do a bit of beta testing for 
me.

If you're interested in testing send me an email at 
softhouse@... and I'll get the software out to you as 
soon as it's ready.

Cheers,

Peter




--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ozteevan" <ozteevan@y...> wrote:
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > 
> >     My only real concern at this point is that the 
javax.sound.midi 
> > interface support for SysEx seems like it is pretty new... i.e. 
it 
> > may be buggy or lack necessary features.
> > 
> 
> While I was developing DTXport last year to do the same sort of 
Sysex 
> viewing & editing I discovered a bug in javax.sound.midi that 
renders 
> it useless for long messages. I had to include WinMMMidiProvider 
with 

> my distribution to work around it.
> 
> Roger

Hehe, I'm a long time C++ guy (corrupting memory since '92!), its 
only been the last three years or so that I've been doing Java.  I 
chose Java mostly for the good, free tools.

    The SysEx spec errors concern me a bit.  Do you have any more 
information on them?  Since I'm working with four versions 
(DTXpressI/II/II and DTXtremeI) and they are very similar, I've been 
able to answer a few questions by cross checking the other specs, 
particularly the DTXtreme as it's manual and has a bit more text with 
it.

    I'm building out XML files to describe the SysEx dump structures 
(sample below).  I'm pretty certain at this point I won't need any 
module specific Java code.  I'll have a tree/property pane view.  
I'll dynamically build the nodes and property sheets from the XML.  I 
should have the code in pretty good shape over the next week or so.  
Unfortunately, until the DTXpressIIISP comes out I will not have 
anything to test with.


----------------------------
<module name="DTXpress (original)" identify-code="43004C6B07" 
dumptext="DTXL">
    <dump name="System" type="SYST" objectnumber="7F7F">
        <param name="Learn Mode" type="enum">
            <enum id="0">Off</enum> 
            <enum id="1">Shift</enum> 
            <enum id="2">Always</enum> 
        </param>
        <param name="Bypass" type="bool" /> 
        ...
    <dump name="Drum Kit" type="DKIT" objectnumber="0000" count="32">
        <param name="Name" type="ascii" length="8" /> 
        <param name="Volume" type="UC" max="127" /> 
	...

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "the_kin_doc" <softhouse@o...> wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I'm also in the process of developing an editor (for the DTXpress 
> II, since that's all I have here). Being the dinosaur that I am 
> however, I've opted for C++.  I've already written the code to 
> request, load, save, open and send kits and am about to embark on 
> the kit editor itself.  When that's done I'll do editors for 
> triggers, system data and the user map.
> 
> A word of warning to those who follow, however, so far I have found 
> a couple of errors in the sysex spec on the files area here so be 
> vigilent.
> 
> I'm away on business next week but I hope to have the kit editor 
> finished in about 2 weeks at which time I'd be interested in 
hearing 

> from any DTXpress II users willing to do a bit of beta testing for 
> me.
> 
> If you're interested in testing send me an email at 
> softhouse@o... and I'll get the software out to you as 
> soon as it's ready.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "ozteevan" <ozteevan@y...> wrote:
> > --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > > 
> > >     My only real concern at this point is that the 
> javax.sound.midi 
> > > interface support for SysEx seems like it is pretty new... i.e. 
> it 
> > > may be buggy or lack necessary features.
> > > 
> > 
> > While I was developing DTXport last year to do the same sort of 
> Sysex 
> > viewing & editing I discovered a bug in javax.sound.midi that 
> renders 
> > it useless for long messages. I had to include WinMMMidiProvider 
> with 
> > my distribution to work around it.
> > 
> > Roger

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     The SysEx spec errors concern me a bit.  Do you have any more 
> information on them?  Since I'm working with four versions 
> (DTXpressI/II/II and DTXtremeI) and they are very similar, I've 
been 
> able to answer a few questions by cross checking the other specs, 
> particularly the DTXtreme as it's manual and has a bit more text 
with 
> it.

The errors I've found to date are pretty minor but they need to be 
corrected to get things working.

----------------------------------------

The spec says:

B.1 bulk dump - systam data

	system data - 202 bytes

But I think it should be:

B.1 bulk dump - system data

	system data - 203 bytes

-----------------------------------------

The spec says:

	drumkit data - 1066 bytes
	-------------------------------------------------------
	offset	type	range	name
	-------------------------------------------------------
	0	UC*8	ASCII	name
	8	UC	0-127	volume
	9	UC	0-127	reverb return level
	10	UC	0-127	reverb send level
	11	UC	0-11	reverb type
	12	UC	0-69	reverb time
	13	UC	0-63	HH sens
	14	UC	0-127	song select
	15	UC	0-2	tempo select MSB
	16	UC	0-127	tempo select LSB
	17	3bytes	-	reserve
	20	[DRSRC]*25
	970	[DRTR]*16
	-------------------------------------------------------

But I think it should be:

	drumkit data – 1070 bytes
	-------------------------------------------------------
	offset	type	range	name
	-------------------------------------------------------
	0	UC*12	ASCII	name
	12	UC	0-127	volume
	13	UC	0-127	reverb return level
	14	UC	0-127	reverb send level
	15	UC	0-11	reverb type
	16	UC	0-69	reverb time
	17	UC	0-63	HH sens
	18	UC	0-127	song select
	19	UC	0-2	tempo select MSB
	20	UC	0-127	tempo select LSB
	21	3bytes	-	reserve
	24	[DRSRC]*25
	974	[DRTR]*16
	-------------------------------------------------------


The spec says:

	OB64	0:-64, 1:-32, ... 32:0, 33:+1, ... 64:+32
	OB127	0:-127, 1:-62, ... 64:0, 65:+1, ...127:+63

But I think it should be:

	OB64	0:-32, 1:-31, ... 32:0, 33:+1, ... 64:+32
	OB127	0:-64, 1:-63, ... 64:0, 65:+1, ...127:+63

However, I haven't tested this last one yet, I'm just guessing that 
is what they really meant.

I'll let you know if I find any others, or let me know if you think 
I've got this wrong somehow.

Cheers,

Peter

Excellent information!  I have a few comments/questions:

    1. System Dump size
    - Adding up the param sizes you are correct, 203.  It seems wrong 
in all of the DTXpressI/II/II SysEx specs.  (The DTXtreme spec 
doesn't list the size of the system block and thus escapes criticism.)

    2. Drum Kit name
    - Are you sure you aren't also counting the preceding index 
number and object number from the dump?  Or are there 4 dead bytes in 
the format?  This should be easy to test as the volume byte is right 
after it and the kit (object) number is right before.  If true, its 
wrong in at least the I/II/II specs and perhaps the Extreme spec 
too.  This depends on if the name is truly that long or if there are 
just 4 dead bytes in the format.

    3.  OB64/OB127
    I think you have to be correct on this one, it would be just too 
odd if not true.  The bad thing is this same table appears to be 
cut/pasted into all four specs I have: I/II/III/Extreme.

    Perhaps we should get OGD to foward this information to Yamaha to 
confirm/correct?  Its pretty obvious they copy most of this 
documentation from model to model, so it'd help them with future 
releases.

    Thanks again for the information!  I'll definately post any 
issues I find.


--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "the_kin_doc" <softhouse@o...> wrote:

> --- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> > 
> >     The SysEx spec errors concern me a bit.  Do you have any more 
> > information on them?  Since I'm working with four versions 
> > (DTXpressI/II/II and DTXtremeI) and they are very similar, I've 
> been 
> > able to answer a few questions by cross checking the other specs, 
> > particularly the DTXtreme as it's manual and has a bit more text 
> with 
> > it.
> 
> The errors I've found to date are pretty minor but they need to be 
> corrected to get things working.
> 
> ----------------------------------------
> 
> The spec says:
> 
> B.1 bulk dump - systam data
> 
> 	system data - 202 bytes
> 
> But I think it should be:
> 
> B.1 bulk dump - system data
> 
> 	system data - 203 bytes
> 
> -----------------------------------------
> 
> The spec says:
> 
> 	drumkit data - 1066 bytes
> 	-------------------------------------------------------
> 	offset	type	range	name
> 	-------------------------------------------------------
> 	0	UC*8	ASCII	name
> 	8	UC	0-127	volume
> 	9	UC	0-127	reverb return level
> 	10	UC	0-127	reverb send level
> 	11	UC	0-11	reverb type
> 	12	UC	0-69	reverb time
> 	13	UC	0-63	HH sens
> 	14	UC	0-127	song select
> 	15	UC	0-2	tempo select MSB
> 	16	UC	0-127	tempo select LSB
> 	17	3bytes	-	reserve
> 	20	[DRSRC]*25
> 	970	[DRTR]*16
> 	-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> But I think it should be:
> 
> 	drumkit data – 1070 bytes
> 	-------------------------------------------------------
> 	offset	type	range	name
> 	-------------------------------------------------------
> 	0	UC*12	ASCII	name
> 	12	UC	0-127	volume
> 	13	UC	0-127	reverb return level
> 	14	UC	0-127	reverb send level
> 	15	UC	0-11	reverb type
> 	16	UC	0-69	reverb time
> 	17	UC	0-63	HH sens
> 	18	UC	0-127	song select
> 	19	UC	0-2	tempo select MSB
> 	20	UC	0-127	tempo select LSB
> 	21	3bytes	-	reserve
> 	24	[DRSRC]*25
> 	974	[DRTR]*16
> 	-------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> The spec says:
> 
> 	OB64	0:-64, 1:-32, ... 32:0, 33:+1, ... 64:+32
> 	OB127	0:-127, 1:-62, ... 64:0, 65:+1, ...127:+63
> 
> But I think it should be:
> 
> 	OB64	0:-32, 1:-31, ... 32:0, 33:+1, ... 64:+32
> 	OB127	0:-64, 1:-63, ... 64:0, 65:+1, ...127:+63
> 
> However, I haven't tested this last one yet, I'm just guessing that 
> is what they really meant.
> 
> I'll let you know if I find any others, or let me know if you think 
> I've got this wrong somehow.
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Peter

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "jjcorley0000" <jjc@s...> wrote:
> 
>     Excellent information!  I have a few comments/questions:
> 
>     1. System Dump size
>     - Adding up the param sizes you are correct, 203.  It seems 
wrong 
> in all of the DTXpressI/II/II SysEx specs.  (The DTXtreme spec 
> doesn't list the size of the system block and thus escapes 
criticism.)

When you do a dump request on the DTXpress II you get 223 bytes 
rather than the 222 the spec suggests.

> 
>     2. Drum Kit name
>     - Are you sure you aren't also counting the preceding index 
> number and object number from the dump?  Or are there 4 dead bytes 
in 
> the format? This should be easy to test as the volume byte is 
right 
> after it and the kit (object) number is right before.  If true, 
its 
> wrong in at least the I/II/II specs and perhaps the Extreme spec 
> too.  This depends on if the name is truly that long or if there 
are 
> just 4 dead bytes in the format.



Drum kit names can be up to 12 characters long in the DTXpress II - 
were they only 8 in earlier models?  Once again, a dump request 
returns 1090 bytes rather than the 1086 the spec suggests.

Peter

--- In DTXpress@yahoogroups.com, "the_kin_doc" <softhouse@o...> wrote:
> Drum kit names can be up to 12 characters long in the DTXpress II - 
> were they only 8 in earlier models?  Once again, a dump request 
> returns 1090 bytes rather than the 1086 the spec suggests.

    Right you are, after checking the manuals (if they are to be 
believed):

Drum Kit Name Size:
 8 - DTXpressI
 12 - DTXpressII
 12 - DTXpressIII
 8 - DTXtreme

   Which means the specs on the II and III are wrong.

   Good Catch!

--- >     Perhaps we should get OGD to foward this information to 
Yamaha to 
> confirm/correct?  Its pretty obvious they copy most of this 
> documentation from model to model, so it'd help them with future 
> releases.

Hey guys,

I have been working the 6am to midnight plus shift/7day/week 
schedule, so I have only had a few seconds here and there to keep 
track of posts here. 

If you get together a list of all your questions/comments, I'll check 
with Jim/So at Yamaha and try and get an answer for you.

OGD