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Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by scott_now_coming

Enjoy!

http://www.luminous-
landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by Tyler Boley

well you know, they're always a little behind us over there on the old
LL forum...

Tyler

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Enjoy!
> 
> http://www.luminous-
> landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
> main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173
>

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by Sarah Renkes

"Generally speaking, I shoot landscapes with a Linhof View Camera, Rodenstock HR lenses 
and a PhaseOne P45+ back." (<----- this is a quote fomr LL about this paper.)

I love LL, but frankly, their test controls are beyond my lowly little set-up, thus I have a 
hard time relating. I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm releasing the shutter of a 
dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews.

Sarah




--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> well you know, they're always a little behind us over there on the old
> LL forum...
> 
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
> "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
> >
> > Enjoy!
> > 
> > http://www.luminous-
> > landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
> > main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173
> >
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by David Whistance

I shouldn't worry about it - I think his images speak for themselves.  Good
equipment doesn't necessarily make for good images, in fact the opposite is
often the case.  It's really about making the best images you can with the
equipment you have.

David Whistance
Show quoted textHide quoted text
  -----Original Message-----
  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Sarah
Renkes
  Sent: 09 February 2008 03:41
  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review


  "Generally speaking, I shoot landscapes with a Linhof View Camera,
Rodenstock HR lenses
  and a PhaseOne P45+ back." (<----- this is a quote fomr LL about this
paper.)

  I love LL, but frankly, their test controls are beyond my lowly little
set-up, thus I have a
  hard time relating. I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm
releasing the shutter of a
  dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews.

  Sarah

  --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Tyler Boley"
<tyler@...> wrote:
  >
  > well you know, they're always a little behind us over there on the old
  > LL forum...
  >
  > Tyler
  >
  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
  > "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
  > >
  > > Enjoy!
  > >
  > > http://www.luminous-
  > > landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
  > > main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173
  > >
  >



  


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by Gabriel Valansi

I agree.
But sometimes I learn a lot for this kind of people whit that obsession
about technical issues. Always you can found something interesting and
useful.


El 9/2/08 07:08, "David Whistance" <david.whistance@btopenworld.com>
escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> I shouldn't worry about it - I think his images speak for themselves.  Good
> equipment doesn't necessarily make for good images, in fact the opposite is
> often the case.  It's really about making the best images you can with the
> equipment you have.
> 
> David Whistance
> 
> -----Original Message-----
>  From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of Sarah
> Renkes
>  Sent: 09 February 2008 03:41
>  To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>  Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
> 
> "Generally speaking, I shoot landscapes with a Linhof View Camera,
> Rodenstock HR lenses
>  and a PhaseOne P45+ back." (<----- this is a quote fomr LL about this
> paper.)
> 
> I love LL, but frankly, their test controls are beyond my lowly little
> set-up, thus I have a
>  hard time relating. I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm
> releasing the shutter of a
>  dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews.
> 
> Sarah
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@...> wrote:
>>  >
>>  > well you know, they're always a little behind us over there on the old
>>  > LL forum...
>>  >
>>  > Tyler
>>  >
>>  > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>  > "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
>>>  > >
>>>  > > Enjoy!
>>>  > >
>>>  > > http://www.luminous-
>>>  > > landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
>>>  > > main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173
>>>  > >
>>  >
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by Robert W Shearer

The one real “negative” if you will pardon the pun with the digital age is
that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less about the
image.

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@...m
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gabriel
Valansi
Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 8:52 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

 



I agree.
But sometimes I learn a lot for this kind of people whit that obsession
about technical issues. Always you can found something interesting and
useful.

El 9/2/08 07:08, "David Whistance" <david.whistance@
<mailto:david.whistance%40btopenworld.com> btopenworld.com>
escribió:

> 
> 
> 
> 
> I shouldn't worry about it - I think his images speak for themselves. Good
> equipment doesn't necessarily make for good images, in fact the opposite
is
> often the case. It's really about making the best images you can with the
> equipment you have.
> 
> David Whistance
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of
Sarah
> Renkes
> Sent: 09 February 2008 03:41
> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
> 
> "Generally speaking, I shoot landscapes with a Linhof View Camera,
> Rodenstock HR lenses
> and a PhaseOne P45+ back." (<----- this is a quote fomr LL about this
> paper.)
> 
> I love LL, but frankly, their test controls are beyond my lowly little
> set-up, thus I have a
> hard time relating. I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm
> releasing the shutter of a
> dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews.
> 
> Sarah
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@...m
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tyler Boley"
> <tyler@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > well you know, they're always a little behind us over there on the old
>> > LL forum...
>> >
>> > Tyler
>> >
>> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>> > "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > Enjoy!
>>> > >
>>> > > http://www.luminous <http://www.luminous-> -
>>> > > landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
>>> > > main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173
>>> > >
>> >
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> 
> 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by Rick Colson

Sarah wrote:

"I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm releasing the shutter of a
dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews."

The 1ds is still one of the very best. Maybe not as fast as the newer stuff
but as far as IQ goes, it's hard to beat. Dinosaur? No. Just a little on the
tortoise side. (Who won the race?)

Rick

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-09 by Gary Weaver

It's not photography, it's consumer electronics. So, it's quite easy to get sidetracked by the hype.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/9/08 at 10:28 AM Robert W Shearer wrote:

>The one real “negative” if you will pardon the pun with the digital age is
>that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less about the
>image.
>
> 
>
>  _____  
>
>From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gabriel
>Valansi
>Sent: Saturday, February 09, 2008 8:52 AM
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>
> 
>
>
>
>I agree.
>But sometimes I learn a lot for this kind of people whit that obsession
>about technical issues. Always you can found something interesting and
>useful.
>
>El 9/2/08 07:08, "David Whistance" <david.whistance@
><mailto:david.whistance%40btopenworld.com> btopenworld.com>
>escribió:
>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> I shouldn't worry about it - I think his images speak for themselves.
>Good
>> equipment doesn't necessarily make for good images, in fact the opposite
>is
>> often the case. It's really about making the best images you can with the
>> equipment you have.
>> 
>> David Whistance
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhit
><mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>eThePrint@...m
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
><mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ]On Behalf Of
>Sarah
>> Renkes
>> Sent: 09 February 2008 03:41
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
><mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>> 
>> "Generally speaking, I shoot landscapes with a Linhof View Camera,
>> Rodenstock HR lenses
>> and a PhaseOne P45+ back." (<----- this is a quote fomr LL about this
>> paper.)
>> 
>> I love LL, but frankly, their test controls are beyond my lowly little
>> set-up, thus I have a
>> hard time relating. I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm
>> releasing the shutter of a
>> dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews.
>> 
>> Sarah
>> 
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
><mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , "Tyler Boley"
>> <tyler@...> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > well you know, they're always a little behind us over there on the old
>>> > LL forum...
>>> >
>>> > Tyler
>>> >
>>> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
><mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ,
>>> > "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> wrote:
>>>> > >
>>>> > > Enjoy!
>>>> > >
>>>> > > http://www.luminous <http://www.luminous-> -
>>>> > > landscape.com/reviews/printers/Epson_Exhibition_Fiber.shtml?
>>>> > > main_page=product_info&cPath=20&products_id=173
>>>> > >
>>> >
>> 
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> 
>> 
>> 
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>“OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Sarah Renkes

Rick, I do love my 1Ds, though the noise factor in this camera isn't the best. Supposedly 
they have improved it with the newest incarnation....but that's all pretty OT here! 

My 1Ds thanks you for the bid. ;)

Sarah



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Rick Colson <rick.colson@...> 
wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Sarah wrote:
> 
> "I shoot with the first 1Ds, and feel like I'm releasing the shutter of a
> dinosaur every time I read one of their reviews."
> 
> The 1ds is still one of the very best. Maybe not as fast as the newer stuff
> but as far as IQ goes, it's hard to beat. Dinosaur? No. Just a little on the
> tortoise side. (Who won the race?)
> 
> Rick
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Sarah Renkes

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver" <garww@...> 
wrote:
>
> It's not photography, it's consumer electronics. So, it's quite easy to get sidetracked by 
the hype.


Yes, that's all too true. Which is why I often cover my eyes and quickly flip the page when I 
see the ads for the newest (and costliest!) stuff. And why I rarely read LL's new equipment 
reviews on medium format digital...I start hyperventilating. Well, that's an 
exaggeration....but only just. ;)

Sarah

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Gary Weaver

Well, it was the hobbiest that gave us the scanback. The pics are on the web somewhere.

In modern terms, I'm ducking my head in the sand. recent cameras are a original canonet and a Minolta AL. I like the Minolta.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/garww/2250725731/

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/10/08 at 12:28 AM Sarah Renkes wrote:

>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver"
><garww@...> 
>wrote:
>>
>> It's not photography, it's consumer electronics. So, it's quite easy to
>get sidetracked by 
>the hype.
>
>
>Yes, that's all too true. Which is why I often cover my eyes and quickly
>flip the page when I 
>see the ads for the newest (and costliest!) stuff. And why I rarely read
>LL's new equipment 
>reviews on medium format digital...I start hyperventilating. Well, that's
>an 
>exaggeration....but only just. ;)
>
>Sarah
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>“OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Sarah Renkes

yes, "old school" or whatever...the Minolta and others of that ilk are still great.

Sarah


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver" <garww@...> 
wrote:
>
> Well, it was the hobbiest that gave us the scanback. The pics are on the web somewhere.
> 
> In modern terms, I'm ducking my head in the sand. recent cameras are a original 
canonet and a Minolta AL. I like the Minolta.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/garww/2250725731/
> 
> gar
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 2/10/08 at 12:28 AM Sarah Renkes wrote:
> 
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver"
> ><garww@> 
> >wrote:
> >>
> >> It's not photography, it's consumer electronics. So, it's quite easy to
> >get sidetracked by 
> >the hype.
> >
> >
> >Yes, that's all too true. Which is why I often cover my eyes and quickly
> >flip the page when I 
> >see the ads for the newest (and costliest!) stuff. And why I rarely read
> >LL's new equipment 
> >reviews on medium format digital...I start hyperventilating. Well, that's
> >an 
> >exaggeration....but only just. ;)
> >
> >Sarah
> >
> >
> >
> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
> >they are often being updated.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
> >page.
> >
> >Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
> >them short.
> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> >membership without notice.
> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
> >the membership.
> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
> >and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
> >section:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> >"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
> >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
> >"OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
> >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
> >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
> >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> >PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Nemo Niemann

Photography has always been about the technical. In my mind, it's the
melding of the technical and the aesthetic/art. In my wet darkroom
days, I had a a chart of a myriad of film/developer combinations, all
of which gave me a different look/feel to the negative. In a way, the
Zone System is the penultimate techie form of "analog" photography.

If anything, digital has made taking photos easier for the layman --
just ask all those Art Directors turned Photographers I compete with
these days, because they think "anyone" can take photos, if they have
"the eye". Don't get me wrong; the equipment doesn't make the
photographer, per se, but it's an extension of the eye. Photography
has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
because computers weren't involved.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
>
> The one real "negative" if you will pardon the pun with the digital
age is
> that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less
about the
> image.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by CorrPro96@aol.com

I have to disagree.
Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second and the  
technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and the art  
to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic processes.
 
Richard Massie
 
 
In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
nemophoto@... writes:

.  Photography
has always been about the technical, we just never called it  that,
because computers weren't  involved.





**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Steve Kale

Art has long been about the combination of technical skill to express  
a vision.  You can only be stronger at expressing your vision by  
having a good grasp of the tools of the trade.  Digital is no  
different from analogue in this respect.


On 10 Feb 2008, at 19:10, CorrPro96@... wrote:

> I have to disagree.
> Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second  
> and the
> technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
> Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and  
> the art
> to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic  
> processes.
>
> Richard Massie
>
>
> In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> nemophoto@... writes:
>
> . Photography
> has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
> because computers weren't involved.
>
> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
> NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 48)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Robert W Shearer

Nah, photography is about a lot of things but the least is technology. The
ability to see an image in the mind where no one else has, the instinct to
be somewhere, the presence of mind to capture that image while everyone else
is standing around with their mouths wide open, the pure instinct to
understand the story that you can tell if you capture the image. That is
photography. Just as CEO's hire mathematicians but don't do the math,
generals have soldiers but don't do the fighting. That is the technical
aspect of photography. You can be a great photographer without ever being a
technician but you will never be a great photographer no matter how great a
technician you are in the darkroom or with an inkjet printer. Ansel Adams
was first a great photographer who took Fred Archer's idea and applied art
to technology. When was the last time you said, oh look! There is a picture
by Fred Archer.

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nemo
Niemann
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:58 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

 

Photography has always been about the technical. In my mind, it's the
melding of the technical and the aesthetic/art. In my wet darkroom
days, I had a a chart of a myriad of film/developer combinations, all
of which gave me a different look/feel to the negative. In a way, the
Zone System is the penultimate techie form of "analog" photography.

If anything, digital has made taking photos easier for the layman --
just ask all those Art Directors turned Photographers I compete with
these days, because they think "anyone" can take photos, if they have
"the eye". Don't get me wrong; the equipment doesn't make the
photographer, per se, but it's an extension of the eye. Photography
has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
because computers weren't involved.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
>
> The one real "negative" if you will pardon the pun with the digital
age is
> that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less
about the
> image.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Mike Johnston

I don't think you can separate craft from technology.
What is art?
Maybe photography is something different to each of us.
Mike J.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Nemo
Niemann
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 11:58 AM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

Photography has always been about the technical. In my mind, it's the
melding of the technical and the aesthetic/art. In my wet darkroom
days, I had a a chart of a myriad of film/developer combinations, all
of which gave me a different look/feel to the negative. In a way, the
Zone System is the penultimate techie form of "analog" photography.

If anything, digital has made taking photos easier for the layman --
just ask all those Art Directors turned Photographers I compete with
these days, because they think "anyone" can take photos, if they have
"the eye". Don't get me wrong; the equipment doesn't make the
photographer, per se, but it's an extension of the eye. Photography
has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
because computers weren't involved.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
>
> The one real "negative" if you will pardon the pun with the digital
age is
> that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less
about the
> image.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Steve Kale

Nonsense.  If don't know how to use your camera you can't take a  
picture.  Just as a painter must know how to handle a brush in order  
to capture on canvas the image in his/her mind's eye, a photographer  
needs to know how to handle the tools of his trade. Else you can  
daydream all you want but not be able to share that creativity in a  
photo.  Now of course, technical ability doesn't make you an artist.   
But it's hard to practice without both creative and technical  
skills.  Explore both.


On 10 Feb 2008, at 20:18, Robert W Shearer wrote:

> Nah, photography is about a lot of things but the least is  
> technology. The
> ability to see an image in the mind where no one else has, the  
> instinct to
> be somewhere, the presence of mind to capture that image while  
> everyone else
> is standing around with their mouths wide open, the pure instinct to
> understand the story that you can tell if you capture the image.  
> That is
> photography. Just as CEO's hire mathematicians but don't do the math,
> generals have soldiers but don't do the fighting. That is the  
> technical
> aspect of photography. You can be a great photographer without ever  
> being a
> technician but you will never be a great photographer no matter how  
> great a
> technician you are in the darkroom or with an inkjet printer. Ansel  
> Adams
> was first a great photographer who took Fred Archer's idea and  
> applied art
> to technology. When was the last time you said, oh look! There is a  
> picture
> by Fred Archer.
>
> _____
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> Nemo
> Niemann
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:58 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>
> Photography has always been about the technical. In my mind, it's the
> melding of the technical and the aesthetic/art. In my wet darkroom
> days, I had a a chart of a myriad of film/developer combinations, all
> of which gave me a different look/feel to the negative. In a way, the
> Zone System is the penultimate techie form of "analog" photography.
>
> If anything, digital has made taking photos easier for the layman --
> just ask all those Art Directors turned Photographers I compete with
> these days, because they think "anyone" can take photos, if they have
> "the eye". Don't get me wrong; the equipment doesn't make the
> photographer, per se, but it's an extension of the eye. Photography
> has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
> because computers weren't involved.
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
> Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
> >
> > The one real "negative" if you will pardon the pun with the digital
> age is
> > that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less
> about the
> > image.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Robert W Shearer

Sorry you were not able to understand the post. You are confusing the
ability to use the equipment with tech anal retentiveness. An artist knows
how to use his brush but he does not spend hours and days agonizing over the
best wood for the handle, a writer uses his computer but he does not lose
himself in the process of which the computer uses to put his words on the
screen nor do the great musicians of the world lose much sleep over the
electronic process which amplifies their voice. The only daydream here is
that which would believe that mechanics are artists.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Steve
Kale
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 5:46 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

Nonsense.  If don't know how to use your camera you can't take a  
picture.  Just as a painter must know how to handle a brush in order  
to capture on canvas the image in his/her mind's eye, a photographer  
needs to know how to handle the tools of his trade. Else you can  
daydream all you want but not be able to share that creativity in a  
photo.  Now of course, technical ability doesn't make you an artist.   
But it's hard to practice without both creative and technical  
skills.  Explore both.


On 10 Feb 2008, at 20:18, Robert W Shearer wrote:

> Nah, photography is about a lot of things but the least is  
> technology. The
> ability to see an image in the mind where no one else has, the  
> instinct to
> be somewhere, the presence of mind to capture that image while  
> everyone else
> is standing around with their mouths wide open, the pure instinct to
> understand the story that you can tell if you capture the image.  
> That is
> photography. Just as CEO's hire mathematicians but don't do the math,
> generals have soldiers but don't do the fighting. That is the  
> technical
> aspect of photography. You can be a great photographer without ever  
> being a
> technician but you will never be a great photographer no matter how  
> great a
> technician you are in the darkroom or with an inkjet printer. Ansel  
> Adams
> was first a great photographer who took Fred Archer's idea and  
> applied art
> to technology. When was the last time you said, oh look! There is a  
> picture
> by Fred Archer.
>
> _____
>
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> Nemo
> Niemann
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:58 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>
> Photography has always been about the technical. In my mind, it's the
> melding of the technical and the aesthetic/art. In my wet darkroom
> days, I had a a chart of a myriad of film/developer combinations, all
> of which gave me a different look/feel to the negative. In a way, the
> Zone System is the penultimate techie form of "analog" photography.
>
> If anything, digital has made taking photos easier for the layman --
> just ask all those Art Directors turned Photographers I compete with
> these days, because they think "anyone" can take photos, if they have
> "the eye". Don't get me wrong; the equipment doesn't make the
> photographer, per se, but it's an extension of the eye. Photography
> has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
> because computers weren't involved.
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
> Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
> >
> > The one real "negative" if you will pardon the pun with the digital
> age is
> > that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less
> about the
> > image.
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by CorrPro96@aol.com

The "tools" that attach to photography vary from a pinhole in a cereal box  
to a complex view camera. There are many flavors in between. Technology, for 
me,  has been more an obstacle to my craft than a benefit, once the Leica was  
available. Many of us relied on the Professionals in the color labs for the  
technical stuff. Many accomplished photographers never printed their negatives,  
while many others only shot E-6 and dropped off their film. I, like many 
others,  relied on an expert printer for my darkroom work, until I learned to make 
a fine  print . It has always been the vision that photographers have had to 
have,  not sophisticated, technical equipment. I have seen many a professional 
 photographer's work that is not even in focus and never the less published, 
talk  about learning to use their cameras.
You really have me wondering what your photographs look like.
 
Richard Massie
 
 
In a message dated 2/10/2008 5:46:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
stevekale@... writes:

Nonsense.  If don't know how to use your camera you can't take  a  
picture.  Just as a painter must know how to handle a brush  in order  
to capture on canvas the image in his/her mind's eye, a  photographer  
needs to know how to handle the tools of his trade.  Else you can  
daydream all you want but not be able to share that  creativity in a  
photo.  Now of course, technical ability  doesn't make you an artist.   
But it's hard to practice without  both creative and technical  
skills.  Explore  both.






**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Greg

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
>
> nor do the great musicians of the world lose much sleep over the
> electronic process which amplifies their voice. The only daydream
here is
> that which would believe that mechanics are artists.
> 


That is so very wrong. Many vocalists (general term) spend large
amounts of time testing microphones, preamps, etc. Drummers search
through scores of heads, sticks, pedals, drum shells, cymbols, etc.
Guitarists may spend a huge amount of time on the brand and model of
strings alone, then when you get into the instrument body, electronic
pickups, amplifier, speaker cabinet, and microphone for a particular
sound. Any of the top musicians will be able to resite a long lineage
of equipment that they've tried, and particularly the stuff that did
not work.

Take any top level performer and ask them why they are using the
instruments that they use, and they will be able to tell you, and it
goes way beyond getting free stuff from the manufacturer. At the top
level most have enough money that free no longer means anything, they
simply want what works best for them, and don't really care about what
other people would like them to use.

Is a bargin Yamaha violin as good as a top level Statovarius violin?
They make the same notes when played...

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Steve Kale

Keep wondering while I learn to use my camera - damn technical  
things!  ;-)



On 10 Feb 2008, at 23:43, CorrPro96@... wrote:

> The "tools" that attach to photography vary from a pinhole in a  
> cereal box
> to a complex view camera. There are many flavors in between.  
> Technology, for
> me, has been more an obstacle to my craft than a benefit, once the  
> Leica was
> available. Many of us relied on the Professionals in the color labs  
> for the
> technical stuff. Many accomplished photographers never printed  
> their negatives,
> while many others only shot E-6 and dropped off their film. I, like  
> many
> others, relied on an expert printer for my darkroom work, until I  
> learned to make
> a fine print . It has always been the vision that photographers  
> have had to
> have, not sophisticated, technical equipment. I have seen many a  
> professional
> photographer's work that is not even in focus and never the less  
> published,
> talk about learning to use their cameras.
> You really have me wondering what your photographs look like.
>
> Richard Massie
>
>
> In a message dated 2/10/2008 5:46:13 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> stevekale@... writes:
>
> Nonsense. If don't know how to use your camera you can't take a
> picture. Just as a painter must know how to handle a brush in order
> to capture on canvas the image in his/her mind's eye, a photographer
> needs to know how to handle the tools of his trade. Else you can
> daydream all you want but not be able to share that creativity in a
> photo. Now of course, technical ability doesn't make you an artist.
> But it's hard to practice without both creative and technical
> skills. Explore both.
>
> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
> NCID=aolcmp003000000025
> 48)
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by CorrPro96@aol.com

LOL
 
Richard Massie
 
 
In a message dated 2/10/2008 6:47:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
stevekale@... writes:

Keep  wondering while I learn to use my camera - damn technical   
things!  ;-)





**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
48)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Mitch Greenwald

I believe that Steve Kale did indeed understand the post, and I agree 
with him.  You are certainly correct that all mechanics are not 
photographers .  . .   but all photographers must be mechanics in some 
fashion.  I've photographed and processed -- both wet and digital -- 
for over fifty years.  I can't recall any form of photography that 
didn't require a fair amount of technical knowhow.  How much depends on 
each individual's choices.  As with anything else, at some point an 
extra investment (either time or money) in technique yields 
increasingly small improvement in result.  The wasted time and energy 
beyond this point is unfortunate . . . you can call it anal 
retentiveness if that's your choice of concepts.  But at the other end, 
all of us have seen in our own work and that of others well-conceived 
ideas that we didn't have the ability to execute.

Turn it around -- eliminating all the technical stuff (think 
point-and-shoot, program mode, etc) is possible, yet how many of us 
rely on it exclusively?

Mitch
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Feb 10, 2008, at 6:32 PM, Robert W Shearer wrote:

> Sorry you were not able to understand the post. You are confusing the
> ability to use the equipment with tech anal retentiveness. An artist 
> knows
> how to use his brush but he does not spend hours and days agonizing 
> over the
> best wood for the handle, a writer uses his computer but he does not 
> lose
> himself in the process of which the computer uses to put his words on 
> the
> screen nor do the great musicians of the world lose much sleep over the
> electronic process which amplifies their voice. The only daydream here 
> is
> that which would believe that mechanics are artists.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
> Steve
> Kale
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 5:46 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>
> Nonsense.  If don't know how to use your camera you can't take a
> picture.  Just as a painter must know how to handle a brush in order
> to capture on canvas the image in his/her mind's eye, a photographer
> needs to know how to handle the tools of his trade. Else you can
> daydream all you want but not be able to share that creativity in a
> photo.  Now of course, technical ability doesn't make you an artist.
> But it's hard to practice without both creative and technical
> skills.  Explore both.
>
>
> On 10 Feb 2008, at 20:18, Robert W Shearer wrote:
>
>> Nah, photography is about a lot of things but the least is
>> technology. The
>> ability to see an image in the mind where no one else has, the
>> instinct to
>> be somewhere, the presence of mind to capture that image while
>> everyone else
>> is standing around with their mouths wide open, the pure instinct to
>> understand the story that you can tell if you capture the image.
>> That is
>> photography. Just as CEO's hire mathematicians but don't do the math,
>> generals have soldiers but don't do the fighting. That is the
>> technical
>> aspect of photography. You can be a great photographer without ever
>> being a
>> technician but you will never be a great photographer no matter how
>> great a
>> technician you are in the darkroom or with an inkjet printer. Ansel
>> Adams
>> was first a great photographer who took Fred Archer's idea and
>> applied art
>> to technology. When was the last time you said, oh look! There is a
>> picture
>> by Fred Archer.
>>
>> _____
>>
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> Nemo
>> Niemann
>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 1:58 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>>
>> Photography has always been about the technical. In my mind, it's the
>> melding of the technical and the aesthetic/art. In my wet darkroom
>> days, I had a a chart of a myriad of film/developer combinations, all
>> of which gave me a different look/feel to the negative. In a way, the
>> Zone System is the penultimate techie form of "analog" photography.
>>
>> If anything, digital has made taking photos easier for the layman --
>> just ask all those Art Directors turned Photographers I compete with
>> these days, because they think "anyone" can take photos, if they have
>> "the eye". Don't get me wrong; the equipment doesn't make the
>> photographer, per se, but it's an extension of the eye. Photography
>> has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
>> because computers weren't involved.
>>
>> --- In DigitalBlackandWhit
>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>> eThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Robert W
>> Shearer" <rwshearer@...> wrote:
>>>
>>> The one real "negative" if you will pardon the pun with the digital
>> age is
>>> that far to often, it becomes more about the technology and less
>> about the
>>> image.
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this 
> same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to 
> keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed 
> from
> the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
> Owner and
> Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files 
> section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
> PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE 
> TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR 
> EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  "OWNER" 
> AND
> "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF 
> THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
> INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS 
> TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT 
> OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
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> YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD 
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>
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>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-10 by Gary Weaver

I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@aol.com wrote:

>I have to disagree.
>Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second and the  
>technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and the art
> 
>to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic processes.
> 
>Richard Massie
> 
> 
>In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>nemophoto@earthlink.net writes:
>
>.  Photography
>has always been about the technical, we just never called it  that,
>because computers weren't  involved.
>
>
>
>
>
>**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
>48)
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
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>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
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>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
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>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
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>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Robert W Shearer

Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy subject.
This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon, Life v
Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
Show quoted textHide quoted text
-----Original Message-----
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
Weaver
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********

On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@...m wrote:

>I have to disagree.
>Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second and the  
>technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and the art
> 
>to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic processes.
> 
>Richard Massie
> 
> 
>In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>nemophoto@... writes:
>
>.  Photography
>has always been about the technical, we just never called it  that,
>because computers weren't  involved.
>
>
>
>
>
>**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.     
>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000
000025
>48)
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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>section:
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>
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>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
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>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
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>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>




Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
they are often being updated.

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unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
page.

Please follow these basic guidelines:
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/

BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU
FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
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POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR
ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY
THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
 
Yahoo! Groups Links

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gary Weaver

Ha!!!

The Scribe was a craftsman, and sure, art could play a part. But in all printing, it's always been a craft. The primary effort is to reproduce faithfully and art has nothing to do with that.

Don't tell printers that printing isn't a craft. And I'm proud to learn the old craft. I've inked up all sorts of stuff.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/10/08 at 7:34 PM Robert W Shearer wrote:

>Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy subject.
>This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon, Life v
>Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Gary
>Weaver
>Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
>To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>
>I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.
>
>gar
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
>On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@... wrote:
>
>>I have to disagree.
>>Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second and the
> 
>>technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>>Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and the art
>> 
>>to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic processes.
>> 
>>Richard Massie
>> 
>> 
>>In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
>>nemophoto@... writes:
>>
>>.  Photography
>>has always been about the technical, we just never called it  that,
>>because computers weren't  involved.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.   
> 
>>(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000
>000025
>>48)
>>
>>
>>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>>
>>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>>they are often being updated.
>>
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>>page.
>>
>>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>>them short.
>>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>>membership without notice.
>>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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>>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>>and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
>>section:
>>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>
>>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
>>MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
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>>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>>OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>> 
>>Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
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>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and
>Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
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>YOU
>FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY
>DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
>GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  OWNER AND
>MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE
>POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY
>TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO
>OR
>ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF
>ANY
>THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER
>MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
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>
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>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
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>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
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Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Brad Smith

For whatever it is worth.....
I knew the "producer" for a highly successful Los Angeles commercial  
photographer a number of years ago.  The assistants would light the  
shot, determine proper exposure through polaroids, "lock down" the  
exposure on the camera then hand it to the photograher.  He'd then  
direct the models, compose, manually focus and expose, maybe have the  
lighting revised between sequences, then do the same again.  The film  
was sent to a commercial lab and they got it back, generally the next  
day.  Chosen images went to the client.

So how was this highly successful, nationally famous commercial  
photographer a "technician"?   His brilliance was in conceiving the  
shots, getting the best from his models, composing and focus.  I see  
nothing in what he personally did that I'd call technical.  It was  
entirely artistic.

I think that the technical side of photography then, and now, is 95%  
in print making.....old darkroom or new image processing/printing.
Brad
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Gary Weaver wrote:

> Ha!!!
>
> The Scribe was a craftsman, and sure, art could play a part. But in  
> all printing, it's always been a craft. The primary effort is to  
> reproduce faithfully and art has nothing to do with that.
>
> Don't tell printers that printing isn't a craft. And I'm proud to  
> learn the old craft. I've inked up all sorts of stuff.
>
> gar
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>
> On 2/10/08 at 7:34 PM Robert W Shearer wrote:
>
>> Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy  
>> subject.
>> This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon,  
>> Life v
>> Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
>> Gary
>> Weaver
>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>>
>> I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.
>>
>> gar
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@... wrote:
>>
>>> I have to disagree.
>>> Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second  
>>> and the
>>
>>> technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>>> Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft  
>>> and the art
>>>
>>> to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic  
>>> processes.
>>>
>>> Richard Massie
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> nemophoto@... writes:
>>>
>>> .  Photography
>>> has always been about the technical, we just never called it  that,
>>> because computers weren't  involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL  
>>> Music.
>>
>>> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
>>> NCID=aolcmp003000
>> 000025
>>> 48)
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>>> resources as
>>> they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>>> wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
>>> this same
>>> page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier  
>>> messages to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
>>> flames.
>>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>>> membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
>>> digital B&W
>>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
>>> removed from
>>> the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
>>> group Owner
>>> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
>>> section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
>>> THE PRINT
>>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
>>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
>>> LIABLE TO
>>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>>> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP  
>>> HAVE BEEN
>>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
>>> THE USE
>>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>>> DATA; (iii)
>>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>>> PRINT
>>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
>>> THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>> wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
>> this same
>> page.
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>> to keep
>> them short.
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>> Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files  
>> section:
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>> PRINT
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
>> LIABLE TO
>> YOU
>> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR  
>> EXEMPLARY
>> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
>> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE   
>> OWNER AND
>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN  
>> ADVISED OF THE
>> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE  
>> INABILITY
>> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED  
>> ACCESS TO
>> OR
>> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
>> CONDUCT OF
>> ANY
>> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY  
>> OTHER
>> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>> wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
>> this same
>> page.
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>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
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>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
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>> the membership.
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>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>> “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
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>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>> “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE  
>> BEEN
>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
>> THE USE
>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>> DATA; (iii)
>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
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> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gary Weaver

No argument. The busy "pro" zones his proofs and lets the technicans do their magic. He's got better things to do.

Like walk around the park with the 35 as in the movie Blow Up  :  )

gar.

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/10/08 at 6:00 PM Brad Smith wrote:

>For whatever it is worth.....
>I knew the "producer" for a highly successful Los Angeles commercial  
>photographer a number of years ago.  The assistants would light the  
>shot, determine proper exposure through polaroids, "lock down" the  
>exposure on the camera then hand it to the photograher.  He'd then  
>direct the models, compose, manually focus and expose, maybe have the  
>lighting revised between sequences, then do the same again.  The film  
>was sent to a commercial lab and they got it back, generally the next  
>day.  Chosen images went to the client.
>
>So how was this highly successful, nationally famous commercial  
>photographer a "technician"?   His brilliance was in conceiving the  
>shots, getting the best from his models, composing and focus.  I see  
>nothing in what he personally did that I'd call technical.  It was  
>entirely artistic.
>
>I think that the technical side of photography then, and now, is 95%  
>in print making.....old darkroom or new image processing/printing.
>Brad
>
>On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Gary Weaver wrote:
>
>> Ha!!!
>>
>> The Scribe was a craftsman, and sure, art could play a part. But in  
>> all printing, it's always been a craft. The primary effort is to  
>> reproduce faithfully and art has nothing to do with that.
>>
>> Don't tell printers that printing isn't a craft. And I'm proud to  
>> learn the old craft. I've inked up all sorts of stuff.
>>
>> gar
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>
>> On 2/10/08 at 7:34 PM Robert W Shearer wrote:
>>
>>> Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy  
>>> subject.
>>> This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon,  
>>> Life v
>>> Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
>>> Gary
>>> Weaver
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
>>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>>>
>>> I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.
>>>
>>> gar
>>>
>>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>>>
>>> On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@... wrote:
>>>
>>>> I have to disagree.
>>>> Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second  
>>>> and the
>>>
>>>> technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>>>> Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft  
>>>> and the art
>>>>
>>>> to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic  
>>>> processes.
>>>>
>>>> Richard Massie
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>>> nemophoto@earthlink.net writes:
>>>>
>>>> .  Photography
>>>> has always been about the technical, we just never called it  that,
>>>> because computers weren't  involved.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL  
>>>> Music.
>>>
>>>> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
>>>> NCID=aolcmp003000
>>> 000025
>>>> 48)
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
>>>> resources as
>>>> they are often being updated.
>>>>
>>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>>
>>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
>>>> wish to
>>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
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>>>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
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>>>> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP  
>>>> HAVE BEEN
>>>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
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>>>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>>>> DATA; (iii)
>>>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>>>> PRINT
>>>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
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>>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
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>>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
>>> DATA; (iii)
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>> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “ 
>> OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
>> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
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>> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
>> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
>> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
>> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
>> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
>> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
>> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
>> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
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>page.
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>Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
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>“OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Robert W Shearer

My point exactly.

 

  _____
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Brad
Smith
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 9:01 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

 

For whatever it is worth.....
I knew the "producer" for a highly successful Los Angeles commercial 
photographer a number of years ago. The assistants would light the 
shot, determine proper exposure through polaroids, "lock down" the 
exposure on the camera then hand it to the photograher. He'd then 
direct the models, compose, manually focus and expose, maybe have the 
lighting revised between sequences, then do the same again. The film 
was sent to a commercial lab and they got it back, generally the next 
day. Chosen images went to the client.

So how was this highly successful, nationally famous commercial 
photographer a "technician"? His brilliance was in conceiving the 
shots, getting the best from his models, composing and focus. I see 
nothing in what he personally did that I'd call technical. It was 
entirely artistic.

I think that the technical side of photography then, and now, is 95% 
in print making.....old darkroom or new image processing/printing.
Brad

On Feb 10, 2008, at 4:46 PM, Gary Weaver wrote:

> Ha!!!
>
> The Scribe was a craftsman, and sure, art could play a part. But in 
> all printing, it's always been a craft. The primary effort is to 
> reproduce faithfully and art has nothing to do with that.
>
> Don't tell printers that printing isn't a craft. And I'm proud to 
> learn the old craft. I've inked up all sorts of stuff.
>
> gar
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 2/10/08 at 7:34 PM Robert W Shearer wrote:
>
>> Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy 
>> subject.
>> This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon, 
>> Life v
>> Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of 
>> Gary
>> Weaver
>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhit
<mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
eThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>>
>> I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.
>>
>> gar
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>>
>> On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@aol. <mailto:CorrPro96%40aol.com> com
wrote:
>>
>>> I have to disagree.
>>> Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second 
>>> and the
>>
>>> technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>>> Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft 
>>> and the art
>>>
>>> to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic 
>>> processes.
>>>
>>> Richard Massie
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> nemophoto@earthlink <mailto:nemophoto%40earthlink.net> .net writes:
>>>
>>> . Photography
>>> has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
>>> because computers weren't involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL 
>>> Music.
>>
>>> (http://music.
<http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?>
aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
>>> NCID=aolcmp003000
>> 000025
>>> 48)
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
>>> resources as
>>> they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
>>> wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
>>> this same
>>> page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier 
>>> messages to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
>>> flames.
>>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>>> membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
>>> digital B&W
>>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
>>> removed from
>>> the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the 
>>> group Owner
>>> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
>>> section:
>>> http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
>>> THE PRINT
>>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
>>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
>>> LIABLE TO
>>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>>> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP 
>>> HAVE BEEN
>>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
>>> THE USE
>>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
>>> DATA; (iii)
>>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
>>> PRINT
>>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
>>> THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
>> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
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>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
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>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
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>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN 
>> ADVISED OF THE
>> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE 
>> INABILITY
>> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED 
>> ACCESS TO
>> OR
>> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR 
>> CONDUCT OF
>> ANY
>> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY 
>> OTHER
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>>
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>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
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>> they are often being updated.
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<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
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>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
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>> and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the Files
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yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
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>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
>> THE USE
>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
>> DATA; (iii)
>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.
<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint>
yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
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> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
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>

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Steve Kale

This same topic comes up with about the same level of repetition.  I  
agree with the statement that printing is a craft (but that wasn't  
the original comment that sparked the conversation).  This list then  
is about craft not art and hence intricately entwined with  
conversations about technique, equipment and materials.  However, I  
still refute the notion that having a good understanding of these  
items is a basic need of an artist.  You can't make a photo (to  
outsource a print) if you can't operate your camera.  If you want end- 
to-end control over the expression of your vision, and you intend to  
exhibit a print, then understanding printing techniques, equipment  
and materials is beneficial also.


On 11 Feb 2008, at 00:34, Robert W Shearer wrote:

> Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy  
> subject.
> This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon,  
> Life v
> Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of  
> Gary
> Weaver
> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>
> I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.
>
> gar
>
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
> On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@... wrote:
>
> >I have to disagree.
> >Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second  
> and the
> >technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
> >Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and  
> the art
> >
> >to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic  
> processes.
> >
> >Richard Massie
> >
> >
> >In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
> >nemophoto@... writes:
> >
> >. Photography
> >has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
> >because computers weren't involved.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >**************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL  
> Music.
> >(http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy? 
> NCID=aolcmp003000
> 000025
> >48)
> >
> >
> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as
> >they are often being updated.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to
> >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same
> >page.
> >
> >Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep
> >them short.
> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames.
> >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> >membership without notice.
> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of  
> digital B&W
> >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from
> >the membership.
> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
> >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group  
> Owner
> >and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
> >section:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT
> >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
> >MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE  
> LIABLE TO
> >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
> >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
> >OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE  
> BEEN
> >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)  
> THE USE
> >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR  
> DATA; (iii)
> >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
> >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
> >PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> >
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as
> they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to
> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting  
> this same
> page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> to keep
> them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
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> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
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> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W
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> Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files  
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> PRINT
> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
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> LIABLE TO YOU
> FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR  
> EXEMPLARY
> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER  
> AND
> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED  
> OF THE
> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE  
> INABILITY
> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED  
> ACCESS TO OR
> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY
> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY  
> OTHER
> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Steve Kale

I meant "not having"
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 11 Feb 2008, at 06:47, Steve Kale wrote:

> This same topic comes up with about the same level of repetition.  I
> agree with the statement that printing is a craft (but that wasn't
> the original comment that sparked the conversation).  This list then
> is about craft not art and hence intricately entwined with
> conversations about technique, equipment and materials.  However, I
> still refute the notion that having a good understanding of these
> items is a basic need of an artist.  You can't make a photo (to
> outsource a print) if you can't operate your camera.  If you want end-
> to-end control over the expression of your vision, and you intend to
> exhibit a print, then understanding printing techniques, equipment
> and materials is beneficial also.
>
>
> On 11 Feb 2008, at 00:34, Robert W Shearer wrote:
>
>> Yes, the best analysis so far. This seems to be a bit of a touchy
>> subject.
>> This looks like a new addition to the Windows/Apple, Nikon/Canon,
>> Life v
>> Death hardcore issues. Did not know that I was going there!
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> [mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
>> Gary
>> Weaver
>> Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 6:59 PM
>> To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review
>>
>> I half disagree. Printing is a craft. Creating the image is the art.
>>
>> gar
>>
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>>
>> On 2/10/08 at 2:10 PM CorrPro96@... wrote:
>>
>>> I have to disagree.
>>> Photography has always been about the craft first, the art second
>> and the
>>> technical in terms of feasibility... whether or not it is possible.
>>> Digital has provided the technology that has enabled the craft and
>> the art
>>>
>>> to reach into areas beyond photography, using the photographic
>> processes.
>>>
>>> Richard Massie
>>>
>>>
>>> In a message dated 2/10/2008 1:58:37 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
>>> nemophoto@... writes:
>>>
>>> . Photography
>>> has always been about the technical, we just never called it that,
>>> because computers weren't involved.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL
>> Music.
>>> (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?
>> NCID=aolcmp003000
>> 000025
>>> 48)
>>>
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>> resources as
>>> they are often being updated.
>>>
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>>
>>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>> wish to
>>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
>> this same
>>> page.
>>>
>>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>> to keep
>>> them short.
>>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>> flames.
>>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>>> membership without notice.
>>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of
>> digital B&W
>>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>> removed from
>>> the membership.
>>> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
>> Owner
>>> and Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
>>> section:
>>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>>>
>>> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>> PRINT
>>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
>>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE
>> LIABLE TO
>>> YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>>> EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>>> PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE
>>> OWNER AND MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE
>> BEEN
>>> ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i)
>> THE USE
>>> OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>>> UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR
>> DATA; (iii)
>>> STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
>>> PRINT
>>> YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW,  
>>> THE
>>> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other
>> resources as
>> they are often being updated.
>>
>> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>>
>> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you
>> wish to
>> unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting
>> this same
>> page.
>>
>> Please follow these basic guidelines:
>> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages
>> to keep
>> them short.
>> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or
>> flames.
>> Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>> membership without notice.
>> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital
>> B&W
>> printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be
>> removed from
>> the membership.
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>> guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group
>> Owner and
>> Moderators. See Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines in the Files
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>> PRINT
>> YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE OWNER AND
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>> DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS,
>> GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE OWNER
>> AND
>> MODERATORS OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED
>> OF THE
>> POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE
>> INABILITY
>> TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED
>> ACCESS TO OR
>> ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR
>> CONDUCT OF ANY
>> THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY
>> OTHER
>> MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
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> in the Files section:
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>
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> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “ 
> OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  “OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by ncmphoto

Posted by: "Gary Weaver" garww@...   garww
Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:55 pm (PST)

"...The Scribe was a craftsman, and sure, art could play a part. But in all printing, it's always 
been a craft. The primary effort is to reproduce faithfully and art has nothing to do with that."

Yes, printing has always been a craft, but I don't agree that art has nothing to do with it, 
especially if you're printing your own images. Printing is also interpretation. There are many 
ways to print the same negative. Who was it, using a musical metaphor, who said that the 
negative is the score and the print is the performance?

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Mitch Greenwald

> Who was it, using a musical metaphor, who said that the
> negative is the score and the print is the performance?

I believe it was Ansel Adams who said that.  Equally true with 
processing a RAW image, all the more so to a finished print.
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On Feb 11, 2008, at 6:11 AM, ncmphoto wrote:

> Who was it, using a musical metaphor, who said that the
> negative is the score and the print is the performance?

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Scott Jones

Would it be too much trouble for the participants in this thread to 
change the name of the thread to something else and mark it OT?

I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition paper but keep 
finding this discussion about something else entirely.

Thanks.

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by scott_now_coming

> I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition paper but keep 
> finding this discussion about something else entirely.
> 
> Thanks.

Hi Scott,

I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link because I 
thought people would be interested in this new paper and what a few 
people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.

Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would just move on 
if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend their energy 
flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time on your 
hands. 

Glad you found that article useful. :>)

Another Scott :>)

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Tyler Boley

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com,
"scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@...> wrote:
>
> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition paper but keep 
> > finding this discussion about something else entirely.
> > 
> > Thanks.
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link because I 
> thought people would be interested in this new paper and what a few 
> people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
> 
> Boy was I wrong!...


Apologies for participation in the thread's demise. My somewhat
sarcastic point was that I think you will find this group in fact more
up to date, demanding, and opinions more discerning than the LL forum
when it comes to materials. The LL is a useful forum, though, for
other reasons.
If you search this group for that paper name, and the Innova version
of it (long out before the Epson thicker version) you will find a lot
of informed commentary about the paper. Of course, the more opinions
the better, thanks for your post.

I was attempting to make a backhanded compliment to this group. That
review pointed out how ahead of the games things tend to be, a
disturbingly demanding mob hangs here.

Again, my apologies, thanks for the link.
Tyler

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Tyler Boley

http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel Valansi
<gvalansi@...> wrote:
>
> I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for the Epson
EF, but in
> 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers
And I´m
> soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the same EF
paper
> in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
> 
> Thanks
> 
> El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@...> escribió:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> >> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition paper but keep
> >> > finding this discussion about something else entirely.
> >> > 
> >> > Thanks.
> > 
> > Hi Scott,
> > 
> > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link because I
> > thought people would be interested in this new paper and what a few
> > people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
> > 
> > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would just
move on
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend their energy
> > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time on your
> > hands. 
> > 
> > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
> > 
> > Another Scott :>)
> > 
> >  
> >     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Tyler Boley

The Epson is this, on a thicker base. Exactly.
Epson does not make paper.

Yes, lots of experience. If you search this list you'll find a great
deal of info about it.
T

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel Valansi
<gvalansi@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Tyler, Thanks!
> What about this Innova? Do you have any experiene with this paper?
> 
> 
> El 11/2/08 15:03, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >
<http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154>
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel
Valansi
> > <gvalansi@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for the Epson
> > EF, but in
> >> > 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers
> > And I´m
> >> > soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the
same EF
> > paper
> >> > in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
> >> > 
> >> > Thanks
> >> > 
> >> > El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> escribió:
> >> > 
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  
> >>> > > 
> >>>>> > >> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition
paper but keep
> >>>>> > >> > finding this discussion about something else entirely.
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Thanks.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Hi Scott,
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link
because I
> >>> > > thought people would be interested in this new paper and
what a few
> >>> > > people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would just
> > move on
> >>> > > if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend
their energy
> >>> > > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time
on your
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >>> > > hands. 
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Another Scott :>)
> >>> > > 
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >     
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> > 
> >  
> >     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gabriel Valansi

I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for the Epson EF, but in
44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers And I´m
soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the same EF paper
in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?

Thanks

El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@...> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
>> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition paper but keep
>> > finding this discussion about something else entirely.
>> > 
>> > Thanks.
> 
> Hi Scott,
> 
> I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link because I
> thought people would be interested in this new paper and what a few
> people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
> 
> Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would just move on
> if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend their energy
> flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time on your
> hands. 
> 
> Glad you found that article useful. :>)
> 
> Another Scott :>)
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Frank Jay

can the subject heading be changed please when the post has nothing to do with the stated subject. I am trying to find inf. on the Epson Exhibtion paper, did a search and am wading thru all these posts on the diverse philosophies of printing, art,photography,  digital etc etc.
  thanks
  Frank


"The luckiest dogs are those with clipped tails....they're the ones who won't be chasing their own arses."
       
---------------------------------
Never miss a thing.   Make Yahoo your homepage.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gary Weaver

Ya, I fogot printing was a performance art  :  )

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/11/08 at 11:11 AM ncmphoto wrote:

>Posted by: "Gary Weaver" garww@...   garww
>Sun Feb 10, 2008 4:55 pm (PST)
>
>"...The Scribe was a craftsman, and sure, art could play a part. But in
>all printing, it's always 
>been a craft. The primary effort is to reproduce faithfully and art has
>nothing to do with that."
>
>Yes, printing has always been a craft, but I don't agree that art has
>nothing to do with it, 
>especially if you're printing your own images. Printing is also
>interpretation. There are many 
>ways to print the same negative. Who was it, using a musical metaphor, who
>said that the 
>negative is the score and the print is the performance?
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
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>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
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>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>“OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
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> 
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>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gabriel Valansi

Hey Tyler, Thanks!
What about this Innova? Do you have any experiene with this paper?


El 11/2/08 15:03, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154>
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel Valansi
> <gvalansi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for the Epson
> EF, but in
>> > 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers
> And I´m
>> > soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the same EF
> paper
>> > in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
>> > 
>> > Thanks
>> > 
>> > El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@...> escribió:
>> > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > > 
>>>>> > >> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition paper but keep
>>>>> > >> > finding this discussion about something else entirely.
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Thanks.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Hi Scott,
>>> > > 
>>> > > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link because I
>>> > > thought people would be interested in this new paper and what a few
>>> > > people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would just
> move on
>>> > > if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend their energy
>>> > > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time on your
>>> > > hands. 
>>> > > 
>>> > > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
>>> > > 
>>> > > Another Scott :>)
>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >     
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Tyler Boley

photo black with the Epson inks.
Tyler


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel Valansi
<gvalansi@...> wrote:
>
> Tyler: do you print the innova with  photo black inks or the photo matte
> ones?
> 
> 
> El 11/2/08 15:42, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > The Epson is this, on a thicker base. Exactly.
> > Epson does not make paper.
> > 
> > Yes, lots of experience. If you search this list you'll find a great
> > deal of info about it.
> > T
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel
Valansi
> > <gvalansi@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hey Tyler, Thanks!
> >> > What about this Innova? Do you have any experiene with this paper?
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > El 11/2/08 15:03, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> escribió:
> >> > 
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  
> >>> > > 
> >>> > >
http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >>>
<http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154>
> >>> > >
> >
<http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >
<http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> > 4>
<http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> > >  >
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> >>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
> >>> > > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ,
Gabriel
> > Valansi
> >>> > > <gvalansi@> wrote:
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>> > >> > I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for
the Epson
> >>> > > EF, but in
> >>>>> > >> > 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle
baryta papers
> >>> > > And I´m
> >>>>> > >> > soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to
make the
> > same EF
> >>> > > paper
> >>>>> > >> > in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > Thanks
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming"
<scott_now_coming@> escribió:
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > >  
> >>>>>>> > >>> > >  
> >>>>>>> > >>> > >  
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I keep looking for information on Epson
Exhibition
> > paper but keep
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > finding this discussion about something else
> entirely.
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
> >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Thanks.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Scott,
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that
link
> > because I
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > thought people would be interested in this new
paper and
> > what a few
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think
peple would
> just
> >>> > > move on
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they
spend
> > their energy
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that
much time
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > on your
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > hands.
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > Another Scott :>)
> >>>>>>> > >>> > > 
> >>>>>>> > >>> > >  
> >>>>>>> > >>> > >  
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > 
> >>>>> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>>>> > >> >
> >>> > > 
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >     
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> > 
> >  
> >     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gabriel Valansi

Thx again, Tyler. A big help.
G.


El 11/2/08 15:42, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@tylerboley.com> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> The Epson is this, on a thicker base. Exactly.
> Epson does not make paper.
> 
> Yes, lots of experience. If you search this list you'll find a great
> deal of info about it.
> T
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel Valansi
> <gvalansi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey Tyler, Thanks!
>> > What about this Innova? Do you have any experiene with this paper?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > El 11/2/08 15:03, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:
>> > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > > 
>>> > > http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
>>> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154>
>>> > >
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> 4> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >  >
>>> > > 
>>> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> > > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel
> Valansi
>>> > > <gvalansi@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for the Epson
>>> > > EF, but in
>>>>> > >> > 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers
>>> > > And I´m
>>>>> > >> > soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the
> same EF
>>> > > paper
>>>>> > >> > in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Thanks
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> escribió:
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition
> paper but keep
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > finding this discussion about something else
entirely.
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Thanks.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Scott,
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link
> because I
>>>>>>> > >>> > > thought people would be interested in this new paper and
> what a few
>>>>>>> > >>> > > people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would
just
>>> > > move on
>>>>>>> > >>> > > if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend
> their energy
>>>>>>> > >>> > > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time
> on your
>>>>>>> > >>> > > hands.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Another Scott :>)
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >     
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Scott Jones

Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)

One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 17x22?

A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will not make 
it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gabriel Valansi

Tyler: do you print the innova with  photo black inks or the photo matte
ones?


El 11/2/08 15:42, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> The Epson is this, on a thicker base. Exactly.
> Epson does not make paper.
> 
> Yes, lots of experience. If you search this list you'll find a great
> deal of info about it.
> T
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel Valansi
> <gvalansi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey Tyler, Thanks!
>> > What about this Innova? Do you have any experiene with this paper?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > El 11/2/08 15:03, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:
>> > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > > 
>>> > > http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
>>> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154>
>>> > >
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> 4> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >  >
>>> > > 
>>> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> > > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel
> Valansi
>>> > > <gvalansi@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > I need a print  paper with the same characteristics for the Epson
>>> > > EF, but in
>>>>> > >> > 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers
>>> > > And I´m
>>>>> > >> > soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the
> same EF
>>> > > paper
>>>>> > >> > in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > Thanks
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming" <scott_now_coming@> escribió:
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I keep looking for information on Epson Exhibition
> paper but keep
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > finding this discussion about something else
entirely.
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Thanks.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Scott,
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post that link
> because I
>>>>>>> > >>> > > thought people would be interested in this new paper and
> what a few
>>>>>>> > >>> > > people who have used it (and tested it) had to say.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think peple would
just
>>> > > move on
>>>>>>> > >>> > > if the article didn't interest them. Instead, they spend
> their energy
>>>>>>> > >>> > > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have that much time
> on your
>>>>>>> > >>> > > hands.
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > Another Scott :>)
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >     
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-11 by Gabriel Valansi

Thx!


El 11/2/08 17:37, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> photo black with the Epson inks.
> Tyler
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel Valansi
> <gvalansi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Tyler: do you print the innova with  photo black inks or the photo matte
>> > ones?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > El 11/2/08 15:42, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@...> escribió:
>> > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > > 
>>> > > The Epson is this, on a thicker base. Exactly.
>>> > > Epson does not make paper.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Yes, lots of experience. If you search this list you'll find a great
>>> > > deal of info about it.
>>> > > T
>>> > > 
>>> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>>> > > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel
> Valansi
>>> > > <gvalansi@> wrote:
>>>>> > >> >
>>>>> > >> > Hey Tyler, Thanks!
>>>>> > >> > What about this Innova? Do you have any experiene with this paper?
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > El 11/2/08 15:03, "Tyler Boley" <tyler@> escribió:
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
> http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154>
>>>>> > >>>
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> 4> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=154
> >  >
>>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>> > >
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> 4> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >  
>>> > >
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;amp;products_i
> d=15> 
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> >  
>>> > > 4>
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&amp;products_id=15
> 4> <http://www.shadesofpaper.com/product_info.php?cPath=30&products_id=154
> >  
>>>>> > > >  >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
>>>>>>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>> > >>> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com>
>>>>>>> > >>> > > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> ,
> Gabriel
>>> > > Valansi
>>>>>>> > >>> > > <gvalansi@> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I need a print  paper with the same characteristics
for
> the Epson
>>>>>>> > >>> > > EF, but in
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > 44² roll. I made test with the Ilford and
hahnemuhle
> baryta papers
>>>>>>> > >>> > > And I´m
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > soooo disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to
> make the
>>> > > same EF
>>>>>>> > >>> > > paper
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > in bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Thanks
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > El 11/2/08 14:19, "scott_now_coming"
> <scott_now_coming@> escribió:
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > I keep looking for information on
Epson
> Exhibition
>>> > > paper but keep
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > finding this discussion about
something else
>> > entirely.
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > Thanks.
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Hi Scott,
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > I'm glad you found the article useful. I post
that
> link
>>> > > because I
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > thought people would be interested in this new
> paper and
>>> > > what a few
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > people who have used it (and tested it) had to
say.
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Boy was I wrong! 99.9999% non-sense. I'd think
> peple would
>> > just
>>>>>>> > >>> > > move on
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > if the article didn't interest them. Instead,
they
> spend
>>> > > their energy
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > flaming and complaining. Must to nice to have
that
> much time
>>> > > on your
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > hands.
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Glad you found that article useful. :>)
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > > Another Scott :>)
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>> > >>> > >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>>>>>>>> > >>>>> > >> >
>>>>>>> > >>> > > 
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>>>> > >>> > >  
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > 
>>>>> > >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>>> > >> >
>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >     
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by pglombick

"I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers And I´m soooo 
disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the same EF paper in 
bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?"

----------------------------------------------------

I'm interested in why you are disasppointed in the HM Baryta. I have 
tried it and Epson EFP paper and found them to be pretty similar 
overall. The HM Baryta has a slightly higher sheen under direct light 
that can be distracting from certain angles and slightly more texture, 
but I found the dmax, sharpness, and shadow highlights to be pretty 
similar. Perhaps we are looking for different things. The Epson is 
pretty bright overall (which I like), but both are definitely not what 
I would call warm papers.

The cost of the Epson EFP is pretty prohibitive. For that price, it had 
better be a wonder paper. I had yet to try Harmon gloss and some of the 
lower-priced alternatives.

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by Gary Weaver

The size is for 16x20 prints - the standard since I was born.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/11/08 at 9:09 PM Scott Jones wrote:

>Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)
>
>One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 17x22?
>
>A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will not make 
>it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???
>
>http://www.scottjonesphoto.com
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
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>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
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>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
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>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>section:
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>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>“OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by Scott Jones

I started looking around after posting this size question and was 
surprised to see that the Harman paper actually comes in a 17x25 
sheets. Perfect for a 16x24 print. Interesting. Perhaps this feature 
will encoiurage me to use this paper. I just got a 15 sheet pack and 
will be testing it......

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver" 
<garww@...> wrote:
>
> The size is for 16x20 prints - the standard since I was born.
> 
> gar
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 2/11/08 at 9:09 PM Scott Jones wrote:
> 
> >Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)
> >
> >One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 17x22?
> >
> >A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will not 
make
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???
> >
> >http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by Gary Weaver

Hi Scott,

They do try and make sizes that will sell. I don't envey the choices the paper MFGs have to make.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/12/08 at 2:31 AM Scott Jones wrote:

>I started looking around after posting this size question and was 
>surprised to see that the Harman paper actually comes in a 17x25 
>sheets. Perfect for a 16x24 print. Interesting. Perhaps this feature 
>will encoiurage me to use this paper. I just got a 15 sheet pack and 
>will be testing it......
>
>http://www.scottjonesphoto.com
>
>--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver" 
><garww@...> wrote:
>>
>> The size is for 16x20 prints - the standard since I was born.
>> 
>> gar
>> 
>> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
>> 
>> On 2/11/08 at 9:09 PM Scott Jones wrote:
>> 
>> >Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)
>> >
>> >One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 17x22?
>> >
>> >A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will not 
>make 
>> >it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???
>> >
>> >http://www.scottjonesphoto.com
>
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See “Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines” in the Files
>section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE “OWNER” AND
>“MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>“OWNER” AND “MODERATORS” OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by Gabriel Valansi

I know about the Epson EFP only for the test I saw from people who compare
it with others brands at the same Baryta products.
I had a beautiful experience with other HM products, like the Photo rag, and
my first choice was to order first a small pack of papers for the HM baryta,
and the ilford GFS, (because the price and the brand).
I use them with my Epson 9880.
May be I made a mistake with the profiles (I have the regular Epson list in
the Epson printer software available with the printer), but I never get
these D-max desirable in a fiber paper. Then I hate the HM  texture. It's so
visible and ³present² over the image. Both (the Ilford and the HM) feel more
like a plastic paper than a good fiber base one. I not found any radical
difference between those Fb based papers and the RC ones.
Two years ago I made some nice prints in  a Oriental Fb. I supposed Ilford
And HM should beat the Oriental, but they didn't. The oriental feel more
credible and authentic than both them. unfortunately the oriental have a
fragile surface. It's very easy to scratch the image.
Many people in this an other forums about digital printing tested and
compared those papers, and the Epson was a winner. I repeat: may be I made a
mistake with the profiles ( sometimes the instinct is not the best way to do
the job), but I had a sucesfull experience printing B&W images whit other
papers.
I´m so interested in your experience with the HM. I´m not happy to pay for
the expensive Epson EFP.


El 11/2/08 21:08, "pglombick" <glombick@...> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> "I made test with the Ilford and hahnemuhle baryta papers And I´m soooo
> disappointed. somebody knows if Epson plan to make the same EF paper in
> bigger sizes?, or any possible replacement?"
> 
> ----------------------------------------------------
> 
> I'm interested in why you are disasppointed in the HM Baryta. I have
> tried it and Epson EFP paper and found them to be pretty similar
> overall. The HM Baryta has a slightly higher sheen under direct light
> that can be distracting from certain angles and slightly more texture,
> but I found the dmax, sharpness, and shadow highlights to be pretty
> similar. Perhaps we are looking for different things. The Epson is
> pretty bright overall (which I like), but both are definitely not what
> I would call warm papers.
> 
> The cost of the Epson EFP is pretty prohibitive. For that price, it had
> better be a wonder paper. I had yet to try Harmon gloss and some of the
> lower-priced alternatives.
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by Scott Jones

I know what ya mean. Thanks.

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver" 
<garww@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Scott,
> 
> They do try and make sizes that will sell. I don't envey the 
choices the paper MFGs have to make.
> 
> gar
> 
> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> 
> On 2/12/08 at 2:31 AM Scott Jones wrote:
> 
> >I started looking around after posting this size question and was 
> >surprised to see that the Harman paper actually comes in a 17x25 
> >sheets. Perfect for a 16x24 print. Interesting. Perhaps this 
feature 
> >will encoiurage me to use this paper. I just got a 15 sheet pack 
and 
> >will be testing it......
> >
> >http://www.scottjonesphoto.com
> >
> >--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "Gary Weaver" 
> ><garww@> wrote:
> >>
> >> The size is for 16x20 prints - the standard since I was born.
> >> 
> >> gar
> >> 
> >> *********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
> >> 
> >> On 2/11/08 at 9:09 PM Scott Jones wrote:
> >> 
> >> >Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)
> >> >
> >> >One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 
17x22?
> >> >
> >> >A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will 
not 
> >make 
> >> >it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???
> >> >
> >> >http://www.scottjonesphoto.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other 
resources as
> >they are often being updated.
> >
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
> >
> >If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you 
wish to
> >unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting 
this same
> >page.
> >
> >Please follow these basic guidelines:
> >- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages 
to keep
> >them short.
> >- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or 
flames.
> >Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
> >membership without notice.
> >- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of 
digital B&W
> >printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be 
removed from
> >the membership.
> >- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules 
and
> >guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group 
Owner
> >and Moderators. See "Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines" in the 
Files
> >section:
> >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
> >
> >BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> >YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE "OWNER" 
AND
> >"MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE 
LIABLE TO
> >YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
> >EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS 
OF
> >PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF 
THE 
> >"OWNER" AND "MODERATORS" OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE 
BEEN
> >ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) 
THE USE
> >OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
> >UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR 
DATA; (iii)
> >STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE 
PRINT
> >YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, 
THE
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> > 
> >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by stephengledhill

I understand the 17"x22" size is simply 4 times the area or twice the linear
dimensions of the standard 8.5"x11" US letter size paper.  The fact that it
accommodates a 16"x20" image is coincidental.
 
Almost all of the sheets papers which are 17" wide are 22" long - but
there's one exception that I'm aware of (there may well be others) and
that's the Harman FB Al which is 25" long.  As someone pointed out, making
it the ideal aspect ratio of 2:3 35mm film format images printed at 16"x24".
 
Steve Gledhill
www.virtuallygrey.co.uk
 
*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
 
The size is for 16x20 prints - the standard since I was born.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********

On 2/11/08 at 9:09 PM Scott Jones wrote:

>Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)
>
>One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 17x22?
>
>A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will not make 
>it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???
>
>http://www.scottjon <http://www.scottjonesphoto.com/> esphoto.com



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by wwodets

Gabriel-

I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and sparkles 
under the light, and is particularly bad in high density areas.  These 
look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't 
understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this, but much 
less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The Harman 
surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the surface 
is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on it.  No 
glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but something very 
good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph 
beautifully.

Walt

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review OT rant

2008-02-12 by Gary Weaver

I like 35mm and 6x9, but these are a modern aspect. 4x5 is just as important and old Elwood 8x10 enlargers are not totally passe. 16x20 is an important print standard.

gar

*********** REPLY SEPARATOR  ***********
Show quoted textHide quoted text
On 2/12/08 at 9:19 AM stephengledhill wrote:

>I understand the 17"x22" size is simply 4 times the area or twice the
>linear
>dimensions of the standard 8.5"x11" US letter size paper.  The fact that it
>accommodates a 16"x20" image is coincidental.
> 
>Almost all of the sheets papers which are 17" wide are 22" long - but
>there's one exception that I'm aware of (there may well be others) and
>that's the Harman FB Al which is 25" long.  As someone pointed out, making
>it the ideal aspect ratio of 2:3 35mm film format images printed at
>16"x24".
> 
>Steve Gledhill
>www.virtuallygrey.co.uk
> 
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
> 
>The size is for 16x20 prints - the standard since I was born.
>
>gar
>
>*********** REPLY SEPARATOR ***********
>
>On 2/11/08 at 9:09 PM Scott Jones wrote:
>
>>Aproximately the same price as at Atlex also ( for EEF that is)
>>
>>One question though. Why is the 17" sheet in the dimesion of 17x22?
>>
>>A dSLR aspect ration image would size out to 16x24 which will not make 
>>it onto this sheet. Are all 17" papers this short???
>>
>>http://www.scottjon <http://www.scottjonesphoto.com/> esphoto.com
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
>Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other resources as
>they are often being updated.
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
>If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you wish to
>unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by visiting this same
>page.
>
>Please follow these basic guidelines:
>- As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages to keep
>them short.
>- Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or flames.
>Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed from the
>membership without notice.
>- Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital B&W
>printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be removed from
>the membership.
>- By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules and
>guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the group Owner
>and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines� in the Files
>section:
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
>BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE �OWNER� AND
>�MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL NOT BE LIABLE TO
>YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR
>EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF
>PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE 
>�OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN
>ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE
>OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii)
>UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii)
>STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT
>YAHOO GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE
>PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
> 
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-12 by Carl Schofield

Walt,

Very accurate description of the Harman paper.  The Harman and Ilford  
papers each have qualities that I like, but each also have slight  
detractions that I dislike.  I haven't tried either the Epson or HM  
papers, but it sounds like I'm not missing much with them  
(particularly price).

Carl



On Feb 12, 2008, at 4:56 PM, wwodets wrote:

> Gabriel-
>
> I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and  
> sparkles
> under the light, and is particularly bad in high density areas.  These
> look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't
> understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this, but  
> much
> less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The Harman
> surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the surface
> is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on it.  No
> glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but something very
> good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph
> beautifully.
>
> Walt
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by Gabriel Valansi

Hey Walt: did you try to print B/W on the Harman in big sizes (beyond
17x22²)? IT is available in rolls?



El 12/2/08 18:56, "wwodets" <odets@comcast.net> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Gabriel-
> 
> I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and sparkles
> under the light, and is particularly bad in high density areas.  These
> look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't
> understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this, but much
> less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The Harman
> surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the surface
> is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on it.  No
> glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but something very
> good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph
> beautifully.
> 
> Walt
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by wwodets

Carl and Gabriel-

Carl, 

What is it you didn't like about the Harman?  With the Ilford I found 
such bad quality control (mostly surface scratching) that I gave up 
on it.  I liked the surface though, because it is smooth and not at 
all glossy.  On the other hand, the gloss differential in highlights 
was quite obvious because the k3 inks are quite glossy.  The gloss 
differential with the Harman is minimal.

Gabriel,

I am still awaiting my first box of 17 x 25, and I'm not likely to 
print larger than that.  I was not aware it was available in rolls, 
but I imagine it would be a curling problem.  It has very much the 
stiffness of a gelatin paper.

Walt


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel Valansi 
<gvalansi@...> wrote:
>
> Hey Walt: did you try to print B/W on the Harman in big sizes 
(beyond
> 17x22²)? IT is available in rolls?
> 
> 
> 
> El 12/2/08 18:56, "wwodets" <odets@...> escribió:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > Gabriel-
> > 
> > I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and 
sparkles
> > under the light, and is particularly bad in high density areas.  
These
> > look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't
> > understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this, 
but much
> > less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The Harman
> > surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the 
surface
> > is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on it.  
No
> > glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but something 
very
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> > good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph
> > beautifully.
> > 
> > Walt
> > 
> >  
> >     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by Roger

I think when they said HM Baryta they were talking about the 
Hahnenmuhle paper which is related to the highly speckly Fine Art 
Pearl.

I think the Harmon FB Baryta Al is more like a gloss paper than the 
other fiber-type ones I've tried.  My 8.5x11 sheets also curl a bit 
after printing.  It's quite nice for color but for B&W I still like 
the Innova White Semi-Matte 300.

Roger

--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, "wwodets" 
<odets@...> wrote:
>
> Carl and Gabriel-
> 
> Carl, 
> 
> What is it you didn't like about the Harman?  With the Ilford I 
found 
> such bad quality control (mostly surface scratching) that I gave up 
> on it.  I liked the surface though, because it is smooth and not at 
> all glossy.  On the other hand, the gloss differential in 
highlights 
> was quite obvious because the k3 inks are quite glossy.  The gloss 
> differential with the Harman is minimal.
> 
> Gabriel,
> 
> I am still awaiting my first box of 17 x 25, and I'm not likely to 
> print larger than that.  I was not aware it was available in rolls, 
> but I imagine it would be a curling problem.  It has very much the 
> stiffness of a gelatin paper.
> 
> Walt
> 
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel 
Valansi 
> <gvalansi@> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Walt: did you try to print B/W on the Harman in big sizes 
> (beyond
> > 17x22²)? IT is available in rolls?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > El 12/2/08 18:56, "wwodets" <odets@> escribiE
> > 
> > >  
> > >  
> > >  
> > > 
> > > Gabriel-
> > > 
> > > I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and 
> sparkles
> > > under the light, and is particularly bad in high density 
areas.  
> These
> > > look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't
> > > understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this, 
> but much
> > > less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The 
Harman
> > > surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the 
> surface
> > > is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on 
it.  
> No
> > > glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but 
something
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> very
> > > good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph
> > > beautifully.
> > > 
> > > Walt
> > > 
> > >  
> > >     
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by Carl Schofield

Walt,

The Harman gloss is more than I would prefer and with larger sheets,  
the relatively low basis weight makes it sensitive to kinking.  I've  
had no QC problems with the Ilford Gold Silk in both sheets and  
rolls.  Both bronzing and GD are definite problems with the Ilford  
and K3 inks, but with Paul's new 3MK-PK workflow neither are a  
problem for B&W printing.

Carl


On Feb 13, 2008, at 12:52 PM, wwodets wrote:

> Carl and Gabriel-
>
> Carl,
>
> What is it you didn't like about the Harman?  With the Ilford I found
> such bad quality control (mostly surface scratching) that I gave up
> on it.  I liked the surface though, because it is smooth and not at
> all glossy.  On the other hand, the gloss differential in highlights
> was quite obvious because the k3 inks are quite glossy.  The gloss
> differential with the Harman is minimal.
>
> Gabriel,
>
> I am still awaiting my first box of 17 x 25, and I'm not likely to
> print larger than that.  I was not aware it was available in rolls,
> but I imagine it would be a curling problem.  It has very much the
> stiffness of a gelatin paper.
>
> Walt
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel Valansi
> <gvalansi@...> wrote:
>>
>> Hey Walt: did you try to print B/W on the Harman in big sizes
> (beyond
>> 17x22�)? IT is available in rolls?
>>
>>
>>
>> El 12/2/08 18:56, "wwodets" <odets@...> escribi�:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gabriel-
>>>
>>> I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and
> sparkles
>>> under the light, and is particularly bad in high density areas.
> These
>>> look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't
>>> understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this,
> but much
>>> less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The Harman
>>> surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the
> surface
>>> is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on it.
> No
>>> glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but something
> very
>>> good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph
>>> beautifully.
>>>
>>> Walt
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
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> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
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> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
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>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by Gabriel Valansi

Walt:

I saw the Harman 44” roll in a store list (climaxdigital.com). I´m in Buenos
Aires, so far to try and make mistakes ordering the wrong size of paper.
What about that possible curling problem?. Would be very noticeable?


El 13/2/08 14:52, "wwodets" <odets@...> escribió:

>  
>  
>  
> 
> Carl and Gabriel-
> 
> Carl, 
> 
> What is it you didn't like about the Harman?  With the Ilford I found
> such bad quality control (mostly surface scratching) that I gave up
> on it.  I liked the surface though, because it is smooth and not at
> all glossy.  On the other hand, the gloss differential in highlights
> was quite obvious because the k3 inks are quite glossy.  The gloss
> differential with the Harman is minimal.
> 
> Gabriel,
> 
> I am still awaiting my first box of 17 x 25, and I'm not likely to
> print larger than that.  I was not aware it was available in rolls,
> but I imagine it would be a curling problem.  It has very much the
> stiffness of a gelatin paper.
> 
> Walt
> 
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel Valansi
> <gvalansi@...> wrote:
>> >
>> > Hey Walt: did you try to print B/W on the Harman in big sizes
> (beyond
>> > 17x22²)? IT is available in rolls?
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > El 12/2/08 18:56, "wwodets" <odets@...> escribió:
>> > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > >  
>>> > > 
>>> > > Gabriel-
>>> > > 
>>> > > I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters and
> sparkles
>>> > > under the light, and is particularly bad in high density areas.
> These
>>> > > look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I can't
>>> > > understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of this,
> but much
>>> > > less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The Harman
>>> > > surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but the
> surface
>>> > > is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful on it.
> No
>>> > > glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but something
> very
>>> > > good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a photograph
>>> > > beautifully.
>>> > > 
>>> > > Walt
>>> > > 
>>> > >  
>>> > >     
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>> >
> 
>  
>     




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by wwodets

Gabriel-

I've printed only about 100 sheets in 13 x 19, so I'm not sure about 
the roll.  These sheets are fine.  I'm just guessing from the "hand" 
of the paper that curling might be a problem.  It takes a set more 
like gelatin paper than cotton paper does.  I think Carl is probably 
right about very large sizes and "kinking."  I should be doing some 
17 x 25 shortly.

Walt



--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Gabriel Valansi 
<gvalansi@...> wrote:
>
> Walt:
> 
> I saw the Harman 44” roll in a store list (climaxdigital.com). 
I´m in Buenos
> Aires, so far to try and make mistakes ordering the wrong size of 
paper.
> What about that possible curling problem?. Would be very noticeable?
> 
> 
> El 13/2/08 14:52, "wwodets" <odets@...> escribió:
> 
> >  
> >  
> >  
> > 
> > Carl and Gabriel-
> > 
> > Carl, 
> > 
> > What is it you didn't like about the Harman?  With the Ilford I 
found
> > such bad quality control (mostly surface scratching) that I gave 
up
> > on it.  I liked the surface though, because it is smooth and not 
at
> > all glossy.  On the other hand, the gloss differential in 
highlights
> > was quite obvious because the k3 inks are quite glossy.  The gloss
> > differential with the Harman is minimal.
> > 
> > Gabriel,
> > 
> > I am still awaiting my first box of 17 x 25, and I'm not likely to
> > print larger than that.  I was not aware it was available in 
rolls,
> > but I imagine it would be a curling problem.  It has very much the
> > stiffness of a gelatin paper.
> > 
> > Walt
> > 
> > --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
> > <mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint%40yahoogroups.com> , Gabriel 
Valansi
> > <gvalansi@> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > Hey Walt: did you try to print B/W on the Harman in big sizes
> > (beyond
> >> > 17x22²)? IT is available in rolls?
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > El 12/2/08 18:56, "wwodets" <odets@> escribió:
> >> > 
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >  
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Gabriel-
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > I'm with you on the HM Baryta.  The whole surface glitters 
and
> > sparkles
> >>> > > under the light, and is particularly bad in high density 
areas.
> > These
> >>> > > look like someone sprayed black vinyl onto the paper.  I 
can't
> >>> > > understand why they did this.  The Epson EFB has some of 
this,
> > but much
> >>> > > less and is acceptable to me, though not my favorite.  The 
Harman
> >>> > > surface (with K3 inks) is a bit glossier than I'd like but 
the
> > surface
> >>> > > is very natural and convincing and the inks are beautiful 
on it.
> > No
> >>> > > glitter at all and not quite a glossy "air-dried," but 
something
> > very
> >>> > > good, convincing and honest in itself.  It shows a 
photograph
Show quoted textHide quoted text
> >>> > > beautifully.
> >>> > > 
> >>> > > Walt
> >>> > > 
> >>> > >  
> >>> > >     
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > 
> >> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >> >
> > 
> >  
> >     
> 
> 
> 
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by wwodets

Carl-

I'm not familiar with the 3MK-PK workflow but I gather this must be 
three MIS inks with the Epson PK.  I'll search the forum on the term.

Walt


--- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield 
<list@...> wrote:
Show quoted textHide quoted text
>
> Walt,
> 
> The Harman gloss is more than I would prefer and with larger sheets,  
> the relatively low basis weight makes it sensitive to kinking.  I've  
> had no QC problems with the Ilford Gold Silk in both sheets and  
> rolls.  Both bronzing and GD are definite problems with the Ilford  
> and K3 inks, but with Paul's new 3MK-PK workflow neither are a  
> problem for B&W printing.
> 
> Carl
>

Re: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-13 by Carl Schofield

Walt,

This long thread:
http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/ 
message/90525
Yes, essentially MIS Eboni(x3) + Glop + PK

Carl



On Feb 13, 2008, at 4:18 PM, wwodets wrote:

> Carl-
>
> I'm not familiar with the 3MK-PK workflow but I gather this must be
> three MIS inks with the Epson PK.  I'll search the forum on the term.
>
> Walt
>
>
> --- In DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com, Carl Schofield
> <list@...> wrote:
>>
>> Walt,
>>
>> The Harman gloss is more than I would prefer and with larger sheets,
>> the relatively low basis weight makes it sensitive to kinking.  I've
>> had no QC problems with the Ilford Gold Silk in both sheets and
>> rolls.  Both bronzing and GD are definite problems with the Ilford
>> and K3 inks, but with Paul's new 3MK-PK workflow neither are a
>> problem for B&W printing.
>>
>> Carl
>>
>
>
>
>
> Please visit the Group Homepage to check the Files, and other  
> resources as they are often being updated.
>
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint
>
> If you wish to receive no emails or just a daily digest, or you  
> wish to unsubscribe, please edit your Membership preferences by  
> visiting this same page.
>
> Please follow these basic guidelines:
> - As threads develop, trim off excess portions of earlier messages  
> to keep them short.
> - Good manners are required at all time. No personal attacks or  
> flames. Hostile, aggressive or argumentative users may be removed  
> from the membership without notice.
> - Keep your posts and threads related to the group topic of digital  
> B&W printing. Users who persistently make off-topic posts may be  
> removed from the membership.
> - By posting on this forum you agree to abide by the group rules  
> and guidelines, and to abide by the actions and decisions of the  
> group Owner and Moderators. See �Group Topic, Rules and Guidelines�  
> in the Files section:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint/files/
>
> BY PARTICIPATING IN AND/OR POSTING MESSAGES TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO! GROUP YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT THE  
> �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP SHALL  
> NOT BE LIABLE TO YOU FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL,  
> CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO,  
> DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER  
> INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF THE  �OWNER� AND �MODERATORS� OF DIGITAL  
> BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF  
> SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE  
> THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO GROUP; (ii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO  
> OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iii) STATEMENTS OR  
> CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE DIGITAL BW, THE PRINT YAHOO  
> GROUP; OR (iv) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE DIGITAL BW, THE  
> PRINT YAHOO GROUP.
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

[Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-14 by Scott Jones

Thanks Walt for all your posts. I will be very interested in your 
reports on the 17x25 inch sheets. It seems like this is the only sheet 
available that will take a 16x24 image.

I am just starting to play with 8.5x11 samples and am still waiting for 
an email back from Harman comfirming my registration with them so I can 
download their profiles for my R2400 printer. Do they normally take a 
long time to get back to a registrant? It is just less than 24 hours 
now. Perhaps they do it by hand and I got caught in the time difference.

Thanks again for your continuing posts.

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

RE: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

2008-02-14 by Paul Grant

My experience is the registration process is almost instantaneous?

 

Paul
Show quoted textHide quoted text
From: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Scott
Jones
Sent: Wednesday, February 13, 2008 10:01 PM
To: DigitalBlackandWhiteThePrint@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Digital BW] Re: Epson Exhibition Fiber - A Review

 

Thanks Walt for all your posts. I will be very interested in your 
reports on the 17x25 inch sheets. It seems like this is the only sheet 
available that will take a 16x24 image.

I am just starting to play with 8.5x11 samples and am still waiting for 
an email back from Harman comfirming my registration with them so I can 
download their profiles for my R2400 printer. Do they normally take a 
long time to get back to a registrant? It is just less than 24 hours 
now. Perhaps they do it by hand and I got caught in the time difference.

Thanks again for your continuing posts.

http://www.scottjonesphoto.com

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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