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2009-10-20 by seanzoega
has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt correct. Any help gratefully appreciated
2009-10-20 by boops.secretvibes
hi,be careful with the tempo track,and tempo fixed,are you well configured the sync in the transport page?i sync my P3 like a rythm box...ask for questions. best regards Boop's --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "seanzoega" <szoega@...> wrote:
> > has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt correct. Any help gratefully appreciated >
2009-10-20 by boops.secretvibes
i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Ditton33" <ditton33@...> wrote:
> > Interesting. > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because all I'm doing > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but it's just > not happening. > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of seanzoega > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > >
2009-10-20 by seanzoega
Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I halved the timebase of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt actually seem to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of the P3 doesnt match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time it drifts. My setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. Has anybody managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3) --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "boops.secretvibes" <boops.secretvibes@...> wrote:
> > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Ditton33" <ditton33@> wrote: > > > > Interesting. > > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. > > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. > > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. > > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because all I'm doing > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but it's just > > not happening. > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of seanzoega > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2009-10-20 by seanzoega
Sorry dont understand what you are saying...could you please explain in a bit more detail. Thanks --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "boops.secretvibes" <boops.secretvibes@...> wrote:
> > hi,be careful with the tempo track,and tempo fixed,are you well configured the sync in the transport page?i sync my P3 like a rythm box...ask for questions. best regards Boop's > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "seanzoega" <szoega@> wrote: > > > > has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > >
2009-10-20 by boops.secretvibes
Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you sync yet with cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly sync(slave)and all the synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a monome;regards --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "seanzoega" <szoega@...> wrote:
> > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I halved the timebase of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt actually seem to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of the P3 doesnt match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time it drifts. My setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. Has anybody managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3) > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "boops.secretvibes" <boops.secretvibes@> wrote: > > > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Ditton33" <ditton33@> wrote: > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. > > > > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. > > > > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > > > > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. > > > > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because all I'm doing > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but it's just > > > not happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of seanzoega > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > > > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2009-10-20 by Ditton33
Interesting. I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because all I'm doing is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but it's just not happening.
> >-----Original Message----- > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of seanzoega > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >
2009-10-20 by sean zoega
I only have MIDI clock on one output going to P3...with Cubase in Internal Timecode and no MTC I have tried all possible options of MIDI clock follows project position Always send start message Send MIDI clock in stop mode What are these tempo functions that you talk of cheers boops.secretvibes wrote:
> > > Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you sync yet with > cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly sync(slave)and all the > synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a monome;regards > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "seanzoega" > <szoega@...> wrote: > > > > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I halved the timebase > of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt actually seem > to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of the P3 doesnt > match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time it drifts. My > setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. Has anybody > managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we > talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3) > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "boops.secretvibes" > <boops.secretvibes@> wrote: > > > > > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... > > > > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ditton33" <ditton33@> > wrote: > > > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > > > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. > > > > > > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. > > > > > > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > > > > > > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because > all I'm doing > > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but > it's just > > > > not happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of seanzoega > > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > > > > > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
2009-10-20 by Michael Shipway
* Has anybody managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3) I use Cubase 5 as a master with the P3 and experienced the same timing issues some time ago - usually much faster (probably double) and changing erratically.. My issue was caused by another synth transmitting timecode into my midi interface (a Midisport 8x8). The other synth would start transmitting as soon as I started Cubase and this appeared to confuse the midi interface enough to "scramble" the timecode it was transmitting to the P3. Maybe you have another source of midi clock connected to your midi express? Hope this helps. Mike [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-20 by sean zoega
Cheers Mike I will check Sean Michael Shipway wrote:
> > * Has anybody managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or > are we talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy > a P3) > > I use Cubase 5 as a master with the P3 and experienced the same timing > issues some time ago - usually much faster (probably double) and changing > erratically.. > > My issue was caused by another synth transmitting timecode into my midi > interface (a Midisport 8x8). The other synth would start transmitting as > soon as I started Cubase and this appeared to confuse the midi interface > enough to "scramble" the timecode it was transmitting to the P3. > > Maybe you have another source of midi clock connected to your midi > express? > Hope this helps. > > Mike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-10-20 by James Coplin
I'm syncing mine to Cubase with zero problems. A couple of things to check, are you using MTC or MIDI clock or both? I'm away from my config to check but some devices get upset with the wrong one or without one. Also, make sure that you aren't also sending clock from the P3 into Cubase and sending it back out to itself again. This forms a clock loop which makes things all sorts of goofy. Unfortunately, my DAW is dead and down at the moment so I can't look up any settings but mine locked Cubase wonderfully. In fact, I'm using it as a clock filter for my Schaltwerk which always had sync issues driving from Cubase. Using Cubase to sync the P3 and using the P3 clock to drive the Schaltwerk made everything super solid. James R. Coplin On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:18:47 +0100 sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk> wrote:
> I only have MIDI clock on one output going to P3...with >Cubase in > Internal Timecode and no MTC > I have tried all possible options of > MIDI clock follows project position > Always send start message > Send MIDI clock in stop mode > > What are these tempo functions that you talk of > cheers > > boops.secretvibes wrote: >> >> >> Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you >>sync yet with >> cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly >>sync(slave)and all the >> synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a >>monome;regards >> >> --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, >>"seanzoega" >> <szoega@...> wrote: >> > >> > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I >>halved the timebase >> of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt >>actually seem >> to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of >>the P3 doesnt >> match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time >>it drifts. My >> setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. >>Has anybody >> managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock >>or are we >> talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want >>to buy a P3) >> > >> > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, >>"boops.secretvibes" >> <boops.secretvibes@> wrote: >> > > >> > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... >> > > >> > > >> > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, >>"Ditton33" <ditton33@> >> wrote: >> > > > >> > > > Interesting. >> > > > >> > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed >>to ask. >> > > > >> > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double >>speed. >> > > > >> > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. >> > > > >> > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still >>the same. >> > > > >> > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is >>frustrating because >> all I'm doing >> > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 >>to the P3 but >> it's just >> > > > not happening. >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > > >-----Original Message----- >> > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf >>Of seanzoega >> > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 >> > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> >> > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with >>cubase >> > > > > > >> > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to >>Cubase. I'm >> > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at >>double speed >> > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the >>tempo isnt >> > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ >> > > > > > >> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> >>
2009-10-20 by sean zoega
Thanks Mike, you were right there was something else sending MIDI clock that was causing the "doubling" Unfortunately however there isnt really any way of getting a proper sync. ....as far as I can see. I set up a simple kick on 1 on both Cubase and P3 in a simple 2 bar loop and the drift between the two make it unworkable. I am using Cubase4 but this shouldnt make that much difference. Doesnt look like this is going to work...time for ebay sean Michael Shipway wrote:
> > * Has anybody managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or > are we talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy > a P3) > > I use Cubase 5 as a master with the P3 and experienced the same timing > issues some time ago - usually much faster (probably double) and changing > erratically.. > > My issue was caused by another synth transmitting timecode into my midi > interface (a Midisport 8x8). The other synth would start transmitting as > soon as I started Cubase and this appeared to confuse the midi interface > enough to "scramble" the timecode it was transmitting to the P3. > > Maybe you have another source of midi clock connected to your midi > express? > Hope this helps. > > Mike > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-10-20 by Softroom
I have successfully synced to Ableton (and had Ableton sync to P3), and to various hardware devices. Also no problems with sync and Cubase VST. Is there any chance you have a MIDI loop in your system somewhere? Paul
2009-10-20 by Softroom
sean zoega wrote: > Thanks Mike, you were right there was something else sending MIDI clock > that was causing the "doubling" > Unfortunately however there isnt really any way of getting a proper > sync. ....as far as I can see. I set up a simple kick on 1 on both > Cubase and P3 in a simple 2 bar loop and the drift between the two make > it unworkable. I am using Cubase4 but this shouldnt make that much > difference. Doesnt look like this is going to work...time for ebay You soon give up! DO you have any more experienced people locally who could help? Could you try out some other software - maybe grab the demo version of Ableton? Hows about triggering a drum machine or something in the place of the P3? -- Paul --- http://www.SmokyFrog.com http://www.youtube.com/WilyEPeyote
2009-10-20 by sean zoega
James, thanks for your help. You would seem to be a smarter man than me because I cant get even close to getting sync. Does anyone know what settings actually work in Cubase because I am pretty sure I have tried everything and nothing changes. I have made sure that the P3 isnt transmitting MIDI clock and there is no other MIDI input to the MIDI express XT except the Sequentix...and tried every combination of MTC/MIDI clock options. If theres anyone out there with the magical combination I would really appreciate it. Cheers . James Coplin wrote:
> > > I'm syncing mine to Cubase with zero problems. A couple > of things to check, are you using MTC or MIDI clock or > both? I'm away from my config to > check but some devices get upset with the wrong one or > without one. Also, make sure that you aren't also sending > clock from the P3 into Cubase and sending it back out to > itself again. This forms a clock loop which makes things > all sorts of goofy. > > Unfortunately, my DAW is dead and down at the moment so I > can't look up any settings but mine > locked Cubase wonderfully. In fact, I'm using it as a > clock filter for my Schaltwerk which always had sync > issues > driving from Cubase. Using Cubase to sync the P3 and > using the P3 clock to drive the Schaltwerk made everything > super solid. > > James R. Coplin > > On Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:18:47 +0100 > sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk <mailto:sean%40zoega.co.uk>> wrote: > > I only have MIDI clock on one output going to P3...with > >Cubase in > > Internal Timecode and no MTC > > I have tried all possible options of > > MIDI clock follows project position > > Always send start message > > Send MIDI clock in stop mode > > > > What are these tempo functions that you talk of > > cheers > > > > boops.secretvibes wrote: > >> > >> > >> Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you > >>sync yet with > >> cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly > >>sync(slave)and all the > >> synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a > >>monome;regards > >> > >> --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, > >>"seanzoega" > >> <szoega@...> wrote: > >> > > >> > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I > >>halved the timebase > >> of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt > >>actually seem > >> to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of > >>the P3 doesnt > >> match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time > >>it drifts. My > >> setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. > >>Has anybody > >> managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock > >>or are we > >> talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want > >>to buy a P3) > >> > > >> > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, > >>"boops.secretvibes" > >> <boops.secretvibes@> wrote: > >> > > > >> > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, > >>"Ditton33" <ditton33@> > >> wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > Interesting. > >> > > > > >> > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed > >>to ask. > >> > > > > >> > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double > >>speed. > >> > > > > >> > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > >> > > > > >> > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still > >>the same. > >> > > > > >> > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is > >>frustrating because > >> all I'm doing > >> > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 > >>to the P3 but > >> it's just > >> > > > not happening. > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >-----Original Message----- > >> > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf > >>Of seanzoega > >> > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > >> > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > >> > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with > >>cubase > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to > >>Cubase. I'm > >> > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at > >>double speed > >> > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the > >>tempo isnt > >> > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >------------------------------------ > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > >> > >> > >
2009-10-21 by Michael Shipway
Sean wrote: > Does anyone know what settings actually work in Cubase I had my sync issue back on Cubase SX, so I would think Cubase 4 will be OK. My settings for a "2 kick drums" test in Cubase 5 are: Menu: Transport/"Project Synchronisation Setup" then under "MIDI Clock Destinations" set the P3 port. I have "Always Send Start Message" ticked, but nothing else selected in the "MIDI Clock Destinations" area. Also, I have absolutely nothing selected in the "MIDI Timecode Destinations" area. Finally, "Use External Sync" is unchecked in the "Transport" menu. In the arrange window, I have a Cubase track assigned to P3 input, with the track output routed to a MIDI synth and the P3 pattern with just a kick drum. (I route the P3 output back through Cubase so I can record the P3 MIDI when playing). A second track with a kick drum MIDI, output to a different MIDI synth kick drum. The result of this (for me) is 2 kick drums perfectly in sync across any tempo I select, using either the tempo track or fixed tempo. However, I was just wondering whether one of your kick drums is coming from a VSTi? This could introduce audio/MIDI latency as the possible cause of your sync problem? Mike. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-21 by boops.secretvibes
how latency in your audio card (buffersize?3;4mms?if more have you try to get down the buffer size and then down the latency..regards --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, sean zoega <sean@...> wrote:
> > Yes. One track of Cubase has a kick on beat 1 of every bar playing an > instance of Battery. > MIDI clock from Cubase to P3 (via MIDI express XT), one track of P3 > playing a kick on beat 1 of every bar > P3 going back into cubase and plays another instance of Battery. > I dont know what is actually happening with the latency compensation > that Cubase is doing automatically (I'll have a look at the manual > tonight) , all I can say for definite is that I have to delay the midi > track in Cubase by 19mS (tempo of 125 bpm though hopefully this delay > isnt tempo related) to get the kick drums to play together. Even then > the synchronisation of the MIDI start signals doesnt seem to be very > accurate...its hit and miss...I get it bang on about 1 time in 4 and its > not solid over time, even without any repeats I only keep sync between > the drums (i.e. no flamming) for about 22 bars. So to be honest not > useable. Sorry Colin....I cant see what I'm doing wrong here...if other > people have actually managed it, there must be something I'm missing. > Sean > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. > > > I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every > > > bar coming out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both > > > play their own instances of Battery so there is no latency > > > differences. > > > > So Cubase drives an instance of Battery, and the P3 drives another one > > through a hardware MIDI input ? > > Doesn't Cubase do some sort of latency compensation when it's driving > > Battery, that can't happen with the hardware input because it doesn't know > > it's driving a VST with inherent latency ? > > > > Best regards, > > Colin Fraser > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > > > > >
2009-10-21 by boops.secretvibes
Hi tempo fixed and the tempo track,i think you know that..regards
> Message du 21/10/09 00:19
> De : "sean zoega"
> A : analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> Copie à :
> Objet : Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase
>
> > I only have MIDI clock on one output going to P3...with Cubase in
> Internal Timecode and no MTC
> I have tried all possible options of
> MIDI clock follows project position
> Always send start message
> Send MIDI clock in stop mode
>
> What are these tempo functions that you talk of
> cheers
>
> boops.secretvibes wrote:
> >
> >
> > Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you sync yet with
> > cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly sync(slave)and all the
> > synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a monome;regards
> >
> > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "seanzoega"
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I halved the timebase
> > of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt actually seem
> > to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of the P3 doesnt
> > match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time it drifts. My
> > setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. Has anybody
> > managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we
> > talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3)
> > >
> > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "boops.secretvibes"
> > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done...
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ditton33"
> > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > Interesting.
> > > > >
> > > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed.
> > > > >
> > > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time.
> > > > >
> > > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because
> > all I'm doing
> > > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but
> > it's just
> > > > > not happening.
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > > >-----Original Message-----
> > > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of seanzoega
> > > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37
> > > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
> > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>
> > > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm
> > > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed
> > > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt
> > > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >------------------------------------
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2009-10-21 by sean zoega
Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every bar coming out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both play their own instances of Battery so there is no latency differences. The delay using the MIDI clock to P3 and back to battery is approx 19mS. Unfortunately even getting this setup the timing is still a bit hit and miss i.e. probably every fourth time I hit play the drums are synced otherwise I'm getting a flam...also if I have a repeat i.e. looping around 8 bars the sync is gone pretty much after the first loop. I cant see what I'm doing wrong but I'm pretty sure that you guys have got things synced better than this...as I certainly wouldnt consider this as acceptable. I find it hard to work out what I can change I am using a MOTU MIDI express XT with a MAC book pro...which I would have thought is a pretty bog standard setup (the express XT is pretty much the only 8 channel MIDI interface that will work with the MAC these days...I had to throw the Cubase interface in the bin as Steinberg dont support it anymore (warning: never buy Steinberg hardware)) I think I need to find another way of doing this...has anybody used an external sync box sending MIDI clock to P3 and SMPTE or wordclock or MTC to Cubase...does this work any better cheers sean boops.secretvibes wrote:
> > > Hi tempo fixed and the tempo track,i think you know that..regards > > > Message du 21/10/09 00:19 > > De : "sean zoega" > > A : analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > Copie à : > > Objet : Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase > > > > > I only have MIDI clock on one output going to P3...with Cubase in > > Internal Timecode and no MTC > > I have tried all possible options of > > MIDI clock follows project position > > Always send start message > > Send MIDI clock in stop mode > > > > What are these tempo functions that you talk of > > cheers > > > > boops.secretvibes wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you sync yet with > > > cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly sync(slave)and all the > > > synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a monome;regards > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "seanzoega" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I halved the timebase > > > of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt actually seem > > > to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of the P3 doesnt > > > match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time it drifts. My > > > setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. Has anybody > > > managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we > > > talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3) > > > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "boops.secretvibes" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ditton33" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because > > > all I'm doing > > > > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but > > > it's just > > > > > > not happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of seanzoega > > > > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > > > > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > > > > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > > > > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > > > > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Laposte.net fête ses 10 ans ! > > Gratuite, garantie à vie et déjà utilisée par des millions > d'internautes... > vous aussi, pour votre adresse e-mail, choisissez laposte.net. > > Laposte.net, bien + qu'une messagerie > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-10-21 by Colin f
> Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. > I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every > bar coming out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both > play their own instances of Battery so there is no latency > differences. So Cubase drives an instance of Battery, and the P3 drives another one through a hardware MIDI input ? Doesn't Cubase do some sort of latency compensation when it's driving Battery, that can't happen with the hardware input because it doesn't know it's driving a VST with inherent latency ? Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com
2009-10-21 by Ditton33
My solution will not suit everyone by any means. But here goes... One of the great strengths of the P3, among many others, is its "rhythmic grip". In terms of a timing clock, I think it's nigh on unbeatable. So, I want to use it as my timing "centre of the universe". So I do. I relegated the DAW to purely audio multitrack duties. No midi. No clock sync. Works for me. :) By the way, anyone looking for a fantastic, and free, DAW... http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/
> >-----Original Message----- > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Colin f > >Sent: 21 October 2009 22:13 > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > >Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase > > > > > >> Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. > >> I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every > >bar coming > >> out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both play their own > >> instances of Battery so there is no latency differences. > > > >So Cubase drives an instance of Battery, and the P3 drives > >another one through a hardware MIDI input ? > >Doesn't Cubase do some sort of latency compensation when > >it's driving Battery, that can't happen with the hardware > >input because it doesn't know it's driving a VST with > >inherent latency ? > > > >Best regards, > >Colin Fraser > >Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > >http://www.sequentix.com > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > >
2009-10-21 by sean zoega
Yes. One track of Cubase has a kick on beat 1 of every bar playing an instance of Battery. MIDI clock from Cubase to P3 (via MIDI express XT), one track of P3 playing a kick on beat 1 of every bar P3 going back into cubase and plays another instance of Battery. I dont know what is actually happening with the latency compensation that Cubase is doing automatically (I'll have a look at the manual tonight) , all I can say for definite is that I have to delay the midi track in Cubase by 19mS (tempo of 125 bpm though hopefully this delay isnt tempo related) to get the kick drums to play together. Even then the synchronisation of the MIDI start signals doesnt seem to be very accurate...its hit and miss...I get it bang on about 1 time in 4 and its not solid over time, even without any repeats I only keep sync between the drums (i.e. no flamming) for about 22 bars. So to be honest not useable. Sorry Colin....I cant see what I'm doing wrong here...if other people have actually managed it, there must be something I'm missing. Sean Colin f wrote:
> > > > Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. > > I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every > > bar coming out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both > > play their own instances of Battery so there is no latency > > differences. > > So Cubase drives an instance of Battery, and the P3 drives another one > through a hardware MIDI input ? > Doesn't Cubase do some sort of latency compensation when it's driving > Battery, that can't happen with the hardware input because it doesn't know > it's driving a VST with inherent latency ? > > Best regards, > Colin Fraser > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > >
2009-10-21 by sean zoega
I've just had a thought that maybe there is a fault with my P3. Every so often when running on internal sync. it will do a little bit of a wobbly (seems to play 1/2 a bar at double speed or something then goes back to normal) If people are talking about the solidity of the P3 clock then I think I have a faulty P3. I understand just using the P3 and dumping the DAW (to be honest I hate Cubase, just the thought of learning Logic from scratch...arghh) but it does seem to be a backwards step...I really like Battery as a drum module, but I still like creating drums from scratch on my 100m...I like to have them both. I love old analogues but I also think FM8 and Reaktor are brilliant...and I seem to be running just about everything through guitar rig these days. Plus I do like to add the odd chord here and there...seems a bit of a backward step if we cant sync P3 and Cubase together....have we really taken a backwards step since sync24? Sean Ditton33 wrote:
> > My solution will not suit everyone by any means. > > But here goes... > > One of the great strengths of the P3, among many others, is its "rhythmic > grip". In terms of a timing clock, I think it's nigh on unbeatable. > > So, I want to use it as my timing "centre of the universe". So I do. > > I relegated the DAW to purely audio multitrack duties. No midi. No clock > sync. > > Works for me. :) > > By the way, anyone looking for a fantastic, and free, DAW... > > http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/ <http://www.kreatives.org/kristal/> > > > >-----Original Message----- > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of Colin f > > >Sent: 21 October 2009 22:13 > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > >Subject: RE: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase > > > > > > > > >> Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. > > >> I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every > > >bar coming > > >> out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both play their own > > >> instances of Battery so there is no latency differences. > > > > > >So Cubase drives an instance of Battery, and the P3 drives > > >another one through a hardware MIDI input ? > > >Doesn't Cubase do some sort of latency compensation when > > >it's driving Battery, that can't happen with the hardware > > >input because it doesn't know it's driving a VST with > > >inherent latency ? > > > > > >Best regards, > > >Colin Fraser > > >Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > >http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >
2009-10-21 by Colin f
> I've just had a thought that maybe there is a fault with my > P3. Every so often when running on internal sync. it will do > a little bit of a wobbly (seems to play 1/2 a bar at double > speed or something then goes back to > normal) If people are talking about the solidity of the P3 > clock then I think I have a faulty P3. The clock handling is done by the CPU, so any fault it could have would most likely be a bug that only occurs in certain rare circumstances. Which version of the OS are you using ? Might be worth updating to the latest v4 beta if you are using v4, or the final v3.1 release if you are on an earlier v3.1 build. Cheers, Colin
2009-10-21 by sean zoega
Colin I'm on V4.00b which I think is the latest OS version. Sean Colin f wrote:
> > > > I've just had a thought that maybe there is a fault with my > > P3. Every so often when running on internal sync. it will do > > a little bit of a wobbly (seems to play 1/2 a bar at double > > speed or something then goes back to > > normal) If people are talking about the solidity of the P3 > > clock then I think I have a faulty P3. > > The clock handling is done by the CPU, so any fault it could have > would most > likely be a bug that only occurs in certain rare circumstances. > Which version of the OS are you using ? > Might be worth updating to the latest v4 beta if you are using v4, or the > final v3.1 release if you are on an earlier v3.1 build. > > Cheers, > Colin > >
2009-10-21 by Colin f
> Which version of the Mac OS are you running? I've heard that > there is a timing bug in one of the releases on the Numerology forum. Hmmm, a Mac bug sounds like a more appealing answer to the problem than a P3 bug ;-)
2009-10-21 by James R. Coplin
Which version of the Mac OS are you running? I’ve heard that there is a timing bug in one of the releases on the Numerology forum. James
From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com [mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of sean zoega Sent: Wednesday, October 21, 2009 4:02 PM To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase Thanks for all the help...I have had another go this evening. I simplified the setup so I have a kick on beat 1 of every bar coming out of both Cubase and the P3...they then both play their own instances of Battery so there is no latency differences. The delay using the MIDI clock to P3 and back to battery is approx 19mS. Unfortunately even getting this setup the timing is still a bit hit and miss i.e. probably every fourth time I hit play the drums are synced otherwise I'm getting a flam...also if I have a repeat i.e. looping around 8 bars the sync is gone pretty much after the first loop. I cant see what I'm doing wrong but I'm pretty sure that you guys have got things synced better than this...as I certainly wouldnt consider this as acceptable. I find it hard to work out what I can change I am using a MOTU MIDI express XT with a MAC book pro...which I would have thought is a pretty bog standard setup (the express XT is pretty much the only 8 channel MIDI interface that will work with the MAC these days...I had to throw the Cubase interface in the bin as Steinberg dont support it anymore (warning: never buy Steinberg hardware)) I think I need to find another way of doing this...has anybody used an external sync box sending MIDI clock to P3 and SMPTE or wordclock or MTC to Cubase...does this work any better cheers sean boops.secretvibes wrote: > > > Hi tempo fixed and the tempo track,i think you know that..regards > > > Message du 21/10/09 00:19 > > De : "sean zoega" > > A : analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > Copie à : > > Objet : Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase > > > > > I only have MIDI clock on one output going to P3...with Cubase in > > Internal Timecode and no MTC > > I have tried all possible options of > > MIDI clock follows project position > > Always send start message > > Send MIDI clock in stop mode > > > > What are these tempo functions that you talk of > > cheers > > > > boops.secretvibes wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi ,do you know well Cubase ?the tempo functions?,do you sync yet with > > > cubase and ext devices, here my P3 is perfectly sync(slave)and all the > > > synths,module behind the P3 just fine;even a monome;regards > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "seanzoega" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Well to be honest...double speed was a guess...I halved the timebase > > > of all the patterns and it seemed closer. There doesnt actually seem > > > to be any timing of the P3 whatsoever as the tempo of the P3 doesnt > > > match that of Cubase i.e. its not constanly out of time it drifts. My > > > setup is Cubase to MOTU Midi Express XT to Sequentix. Has anybody > > > managed to sync anything to Sequentix using MIDI clock or are we > > > talking stand-alone only for this box (if so anyone want to buy a P3) > > > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "boops.secretvibes" > > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > i feel ,your sync configuration is not well done... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>, "Ditton33" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Interesting. > > > > > > > > > > > > I just assumed it was me and was too embarrassed to ask. > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't see anything as definitive as the double speed. > > > > > > > > > > > > What I experience is mush. Everything out of time. > > > > > > > > > > > > I blamed the GenoQs but now it's gone it's still the same. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm pretty sure it's not the P3 but it is frustrating because > > > all I'm doing > > > > > > is feeding a cubase clock through a midisport 2x2 to the P3 but > > > it's just > > > > > > not happening. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >-----Original Message----- > > > > > > > >From: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >[mailto:analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com>] On Behalf Of seanzoega > > > > > > > >Sent: 20 October 2009 22:37 > > > > > > > >To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > > > > > > > >Subject: [analogue-sequencer] syncing with cubase > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >has anybody manages to succesfully sync a P3 to Cubase. I'm > > > > > > > >not doing too well, first of all P3 plays at double speed > > > > > > > >when under ext. MIDI clock but even then the tempo isnt > > > > > > > >correct. Any help gratefully appreciated > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------- > Laposte.net fête ses 10 ans ! > > Gratuite, garantie à vie et déjà utilisée par des millions > d'internautes... > vous aussi, pour votre adresse e-mail, choisissez laposte.net. > > Laposte.net, bien + qu'une messagerie > ---------------------------------------------------------- > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-21 by sean zoega
OS X 10.5.8 is there a problem with this? cheers sean Colin f wrote:
> > > > > Which version of the Mac OS are you running? I've heard that > > there is a timing bug in one of the releases on the Numerology forum. > > Hmmm, a Mac bug sounds like a more appealing answer to the problem > than a P3 > bug ;-) > >
2009-10-21 by sean zoega
Just done some more tests with Cubase/P3 and I've noticed that its not drifting out of tempo its stepping out of tempo i.e. it sounds like either Cubase isnt sending or P3 isnt receiving a few MIDI clock pulses. This is happening in a random fashion, sometimes sync is fine for 60 bars, sometimes 20 sometimes 5..no real pattern to ot as far as I can see. Sean sean zoega wrote:
> > > OS X 10.5.8 is there a problem with this? > cheers > sean > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > Which version of the Mac OS are you running? I've heard that > > > there is a timing bug in one of the releases on the Numerology forum. > > > > Hmmm, a Mac bug sounds like a more appealing answer to the problem > > than a P3 > > bug ;-) > > > > > >
2009-10-21 by Colin f
> Just done some more tests with Cubase/P3 and I've noticed > that its not drifting out of tempo its stepping out of tempo > i.e. it sounds like either Cubase isnt sending or P3 isnt > receiving a few MIDI clock pulses. > This is happening in a random fashion, sometimes sync is fine > for 60 bars, sometimes 20 sometimes 5..no real pattern to ot > as far as I can see. Something I've discovered while developing the code for slaving Cirklon to MIDI clock (Cirklon has a very different method of generating internal tempo to P3), is that the MIDI clock output from a PC can have a remarkably high-level of jitter. You really have to smooth out any changes in tempo, as PC people seem to think that a steady tempo of, for example 120bpm is the same as an *average* tempo of 120bpm. If you consider that 120bpm is 21ms per clock tick - if you have a clock tick delayed by 15ms for whatever reason, the next tick occurs 6ms later. Which amounts to a sudden drop to 69bpm (36ms per tick) followed by a leap to 400mpm (6ms per tick). That seems to be considered fair play for a PC sequencer. It could be that there is a bug that causes Cubase to drop the odd MIDI clock. Or possibly an extreme case of having two clock pulses back-to-back might cause a race condition in the P3 sync handler, which could happen if the Cubase clock output was irregular enough. I think the first thing to look for would be any other references to loss of single ticks on devices slaved to Cubase under your Mac OS. Cheers, Colin
2009-10-22 by boops.secretvibes
Hi ,it's impossible to sync cubase(slave) by MTC ,only Midi,but works when cubase is the master,unluckly P3 don't receive MTC,(i think)...midi ox is a great tool,sure..best regards --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, "Colin f" <colin@...> wrote:
> > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > notice boards. > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > shorter MIDI lead. > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal another > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through something > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being sent. > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, clock > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > not going this route? > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, but I > still prefer MIDI clock. > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about tempo but > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device can then > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a project is > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values defined > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video source. > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and wouldn't > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > Best regards, > Colin Fraser > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > http://www.sequentix.com >
2009-10-22 by sean zoega
Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any notice boards. Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality shorter MIDI lead. Can I ask a more general question..you mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are not going this route? Thanks Sean Colin f wrote:
> > > > > Just done some more tests with Cubase/P3 and I've noticed > > that its not drifting out of tempo its stepping out of tempo > > i.e. it sounds like either Cubase isnt sending or P3 isnt > > receiving a few MIDI clock pulses. > > This is happening in a random fashion, sometimes sync is fine > > for 60 bars, sometimes 20 sometimes 5..no real pattern to ot > > as far as I can see. > > Something I've discovered while developing the code for slaving Cirklon to > MIDI clock (Cirklon has a very different method of generating internal > tempo > to P3), is that the MIDI clock output from a PC can have a remarkably > high-level of jitter. > You really have to smooth out any changes in tempo, as PC people seem to > think that a steady tempo of, for example 120bpm is the same as an > *average* > tempo of 120bpm. > If you consider that 120bpm is 21ms per clock tick - if you have a clock > tick delayed by 15ms for whatever reason, the next tick occurs 6ms later. > Which amounts to a sudden drop to 69bpm (36ms per tick) followed by a leap > to 400mpm (6ms per tick). > That seems to be considered fair play for a PC sequencer. > > It could be that there is a bug that causes Cubase to drop the odd MIDI > clock. > Or possibly an extreme case of having two clock pulses back-to-back might > cause a race condition in the P3 sync handler, which could happen if the > Cubase clock output was irregular enough. > I think the first thing to look for would be any other references to > loss of > single ticks on devices slaved to Cubase under your Mac OS. > > Cheers, > Colin > >
2009-10-22 by Colin f
> Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > notice boards. > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > shorter MIDI lead. The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal another laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through something like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being sent. That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, clock bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > Can I ask a more general question..you > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > not going this route? The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, but I still prefer MIDI clock. MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about tempo but rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device can then use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a project is fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values defined in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video source. And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and wouldn't like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. Best regards, Colin Fraser Sequentix Music Systems Ltd http://www.sequentix.com
2009-10-22 by sean zoega
Thanks Colin, I now have MIDI-0x on my PC...just ordered a USB>MIDI cable so I can get the MIDI clock into the PC. I'll keep you posted. Thanks for the info on MTC, sounds like everybody is getting on just fine with MIDI clock apart from me...so I'm hoping that I can track down the problem soon..and get back to making noises cheers sean Colin f wrote:
> > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > notice boards. > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > shorter MIDI lead. > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > another > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through something > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being sent. > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > clock > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > not going this route? > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > but I > still prefer MIDI clock. > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about tempo but > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > can then > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a project is > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > defined > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video source. > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > wouldn't > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > Best regards, > Colin Fraser > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > >
2009-10-22 by Herman Dackenberg
Hi Sean, I don't even have a P3 (waiting eagerly for the Cirklon), but unfortunately I must say that MIDI in my experience, MIDI from PC's and Mac's are not that tight. This also goes for MIDI-clock. I've been incredibly frustrated by this for over 10 years, and decided to go with hardware sequencers and Atari. Anyway, my experience with MIDI clock from PC's is that it's simply not good enough - too much jitter. Of course some hardware configurations are better than others, but the problem still persists. Best regards, Herman Dackenberg On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM, sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk> wrote: > > > Thanks Colin, I now have MIDI-0x on my PC...just ordered a USB>MIDI > cable so I can get the MIDI clock into the PC. I'll keep you posted. > Thanks for the info on MTC, sounds like everybody is getting on just > fine with MIDI clock apart from me...so I'm hoping that I can track down > the problem soon..and get back to making noises > > cheers > sean > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > > notice boards. > > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > > shorter MIDI lead. > > > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > > another > > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through something > > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being > sent. > > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > > clock > > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > > not going this route? > > > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > > but I > > still prefer MIDI clock. > > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about tempo > but > > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > > can then > > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a project > is > > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > > defined > > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video source. > > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > > wouldn't > > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > > > Best regards, > > Colin Fraser > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-22 by sean zoega
Herman, many thanks for getting in touch...I still have a final few tests to do but I am tending towards agreeing with you. I have just made sure that everything is running the latest drivers etc. and I am running a very simple test set-up but at the moment MIDI clock is just totally unstable and unusable. I have been doing some tests and if I have the P3 and Cubase synced up and just press the "loop" button or turn on a track with the P3 the sync. is gone. This raises an interesting issue; do I just abandon DAW's and go the hardware sequencer route or find a way to sync. Logic/Cubase to P3 On the hardware route, what are you using Herman...how do you record vocals/guitar? At the moment I really like some of the sequenced synths within Reaktor and love the FM8 sequencer and If the problem is with the PC/MAC then swapping to Logic isnt going to solve anything.....so how do I do this? Does anybody know of a device that I could use as a studio Master Clock that outputs wordclock or SMPTE to Cubase/Logic whilst simultaneously sending out a solid MIDI clock? This seems to be the only solution if you want to actually embrace any of the computer audio developments of the last twenty years and still use a P3. or does anybody make a device that solids up the MIDI clock...this seems like a reasonably simple thing to do...it just averages out the tempo of last second of MIDI clock and outputs this as nice solid MIDI clock...you would lose the ability to change tempo, but this would be a small price to pay to actually to be able to sync the devices together and actually play in tempo (the number 1 requirement of music) sean (frustrated of Chorlton) Herman Dackenberg wrote:
> > > Hi Sean, > I don't even have a P3 (waiting eagerly for the Cirklon), but > unfortunately > I must say that MIDI in my experience, MIDI from PC's and Mac's are > not that > tight. This also goes for MIDI-clock. I've been incredibly frustrated by > this for over 10 years, and decided to go with hardware sequencers and > Atari. Anyway, my experience with MIDI clock from PC's is that it's simply > not good enough - too much jitter. Of course some hardware configurations > are better than others, but the problem still persists. > > Best regards, > Herman Dackenberg > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM, sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk > <mailto:sean%40zoega.co.uk>> wrote: > > > > > > > Thanks Colin, I now have MIDI-0x on my PC...just ordered a USB>MIDI > > cable so I can get the MIDI clock into the PC. I'll keep you posted. > > Thanks for the info on MTC, sounds like everybody is getting on just > > fine with MIDI clock apart from me...so I'm hoping that I can track down > > the problem soon..and get back to making noises > > > > cheers > > sean > > > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > > > notice boards. > > > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > > > shorter MIDI lead. > > > > > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > > > another > > > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through > something > > > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being > > sent. > > > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > > > clock > > > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > > > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > > > not going this route? > > > > > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > > > but I > > > still prefer MIDI clock. > > > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about tempo > > but > > > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > > > can then > > > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > > > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a > project > > is > > > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > > > defined > > > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video > source. > > > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > > > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > > > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > > > wouldn't > > > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > > > > > Best regards, > > > Colin Fraser > > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > <http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-10-22 by sean zoega
Herman, I may have answered my own question here. Has anyone tried the innerclock systems sync-lock (http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=16) , it looks like it could provide the answer...anyone with any experience of this device or shall I be the first cheers sean sean zoega wrote:
> > > Herman, many thanks for getting in touch...I still have a final few > tests to do but I am tending towards agreeing with you. I have just made > sure that everything is running the latest drivers etc. and I am running > a very simple test set-up but at the moment MIDI clock is just totally > unstable and unusable. I have been doing some tests and if I have the P3 > and Cubase synced up and just press the "loop" button or turn on a track > with the P3 the sync. is gone. > > This raises an interesting issue; > do I just abandon DAW's and go the hardware sequencer route > or find a way to sync. Logic/Cubase to P3 > > On the hardware route, what are you using Herman...how do you record > vocals/guitar? > At the moment I really like some of the sequenced synths within Reaktor > and love the FM8 sequencer and If the problem is with the PC/MAC then > swapping to Logic isnt going to solve anything.....so how do I do this? > Does anybody know of a device that I could use as a studio Master Clock > that outputs wordclock or SMPTE to Cubase/Logic whilst simultaneously > sending out a solid MIDI clock? This seems to be the only solution if > you want to actually embrace any of the computer audio developments of > the last twenty years and still use a P3. > > or does anybody make a device that solids up the MIDI clock...this seems > like a reasonably simple thing to do...it just averages out the tempo of > last second of MIDI clock and outputs this as nice solid MIDI > clock...you would lose the ability to change tempo, but this would be a > small price to pay to actually to be able to sync the devices together > and actually play in tempo (the number 1 requirement of music) > > sean (frustrated of Chorlton) > > Herman Dackenberg wrote: > > > > > > Hi Sean, > > I don't even have a P3 (waiting eagerly for the Cirklon), but > > unfortunately > > I must say that MIDI in my experience, MIDI from PC's and Mac's are > > not that > > tight. This also goes for MIDI-clock. I've been incredibly frustrated by > > this for over 10 years, and decided to go with hardware sequencers and > > Atari. Anyway, my experience with MIDI clock from PC's is that it's > simply > > not good enough - too much jitter. Of course some hardware > configurations > > are better than others, but the problem still persists. > > > > Best regards, > > Herman Dackenberg > > > > On Thu, Oct 22, 2009 at 4:09 PM, sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk > <mailto:sean%40zoega.co.uk> > > <mailto:sean%40zoega.co.uk>> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin, I now have MIDI-0x on my PC...just ordered a USB>MIDI > > > cable so I can get the MIDI clock into the PC. I'll keep you posted. > > > Thanks for the info on MTC, sounds like everybody is getting on just > > > fine with MIDI clock apart from me...so I'm hoping that I can > track down > > > the problem soon..and get back to making noises > > > > > > cheers > > > sean > > > > > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > > > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > > > > notice boards. > > > > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > > > > shorter MIDI lead. > > > > > > > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > > > > another > > > > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through > > something > > > > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being > > > sent. > > > > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing > bytes, > > > > clock > > > > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > > > > > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > > > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > > > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > > > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > > > > not going this route? > > > > > > > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support > for MTC, > > > > but I > > > > still prefer MIDI clock. > > > > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about > tempo > > > but > > > > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > > > > can then > > > > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > > > > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a > > project > > > is > > > > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > > > > defined > > > > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video > > source. > > > > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI > tracks to > > > > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > > > > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > > > > wouldn't > > > > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Colin Fraser > > > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > > > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > <http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com>> > > <http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > <http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com>>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >
2009-10-22 by sean zoega
Colin, just read a fantastic article on the need for solid timing on the innerclock systems website by Steve Lipson thought you might also be interested http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=36 cheers sean Colin f wrote:
> > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > notice boards. > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > shorter MIDI lead. > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > another > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through something > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being sent. > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > clock > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > not going this route? > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > but I > still prefer MIDI clock. > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about tempo but > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > can then > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a project is > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > defined > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video source. > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > wouldn't > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > Best regards, > Colin Fraser > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > >
2009-10-25 by sean zoega
Just to let everyone know I have just ordered a sync-lock so I'll let you know if it works. I realise that my earlier question asking if anybody has tried it out was nonsense as the sync-lock is only just available. Its pretty expensive £300 by the time you have paid the postage and I dont know what the customs/VAT hit will be....but if it does work (and it better for £300!) then it will be great and will allow my whole studio to work in sync. The one thing that I have to try is to see wether I can merge the MIDI clock from sync-lock with MIDI note on/off messages from other controllers through the MOTO MIDI express without messing up the sync. As I have a varied collection of stuff (midi'd Jupiter 4, midi'd PPG wave 2.2, Oscar, CR78, Sequentix (obviously) and Korg 700s, Roland system 100/100m under Kenton control) it should be a reasonably thorough test. I'll let you know, if anybody in Chorlton has a sync 24 devive that we could try out it would complete the test. I must admit cant wait to get my old analogues working with Reaktor....best of both worlds. cheers sean sean zoega wrote: > > > Colin, just read a fantastic article on the need for solid timing on the > innerclock systems website by Steve Lipson > thought you might also be interested > http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=36 > <http://web.webhost4life.com/innerclock/index.asp?action=page&name=36> > cheers > sean > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > > notice boards. > > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > > shorter MIDI lead. > > > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > > another > > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through > something > > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being > sent. > > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > > clock > > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > > method of syncing equipment...is there a reason why you are > > > not going this route? > > > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > > but I > > still prefer MIDI clock. > > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about > tempo but > > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > > can then > > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a > project is > > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > > defined > > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video > source. > > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > > wouldn't > > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > > > Best regards, > > Colin Fraser > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com> > <http://www.sequentix.com <http://www.sequentix.com>> > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
2009-10-25 by Sound Engineer
Hi Sean. Well i'm not far away from Chorlton and sometimes head out there for drinks... I would be happy to bring round my 808 or circuit bent 606 to participate in a Sync 24 test. They both have MIDI mods too so plenty of scope for testing the all possibilities out. I'm intrigued myself by the Innerclock Systems Sync Lock unit and am very intereted in the results/performance... and hearing PPG Wave and OSCAR in the flesh would be a bonus Recent tests of my own Midisport 8x8 MIDI patchbay unit have showed maximum latency of 6-7ms with MIDItest64 which is poor, though at least jitter is sub 1ms. The latest drivers don't work with it, nor does the SP3 update which i've read helped reduce latency on many PC systems. Maybe that's just on the audio side though. I only used Cubase 4 last year briefly for one project but am surprised you've had so much problem getting sync sorted but not surprised to see so many people on the forum trying to offer advice and possible solutions. Hope Sync Lock is it. Has to be said though i do use my P3 as master clock for the rest of my set-up, as Live for all it's flexibility has had it's fair share of problems with external MIDI sync too, as anyone who checks their forums would know. Don't know if these are all solved in Live 8. As a few folk before have mentioned on here, i would allways trust a hardware unit's ability for tighter Sync as the Master over a software based unit. Sometimes PC's are so busy doing so much clever/complicated stuff, they loose sight of basics like tight sync as a priority... Anyway, i'll message you my mobile if you want to get in touch re. tests when you are doing them, ok. Maybe all the Manchester (UK) based P3 users can hook up for a "Sequencer Geeks Anonymous" meeting at an undisclosed Chorlton bar... (and get pi$$ed) Cheers, Kev. --- On Sun, 25/10/09, sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk> wrote:
From: sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk>
Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase
To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, 25 October, 2009, 10:42
Just to let everyone know I have just ordered a sync-lock so I'll let
you know if it works. I realise that my earlier question asking if
anybody has tried it out was nonsense as the sync-lock is only just
available. Its pretty expensive £300 by the time you have paid the
postage and I dont know what the customs/VAT hit will be....but if it
does work (and it better for £300!) then it will be great and will allow
my whole studio to work in sync. The one thing that I have to try is to
see wether I can merge the MIDI clock from sync-lock with MIDI note
on/off messages from other controllers through the MOTO MIDI express
without messing up the sync. As I have a varied collection of stuff
(midi'd Jupiter 4, midi'd PPG wave 2.2, Oscar, CR78, Sequentix
(obviously) and Korg 700s, Roland system 100/100m under Kenton control)
it should be a reasonably thorough test. I'll let you know, if anybody
in Chorlton has a sync 24 devive that we could try out it would complete
the test. I must admit cant wait to get my old analogues working with
Reaktor....best of both worlds.
cheers
sean
sean zoega wrote:
>
>
> Colin, just read a fantastic article on the need for solid timing on the
> innerclock systems website by Steve Lipson
> thought you might also be interested
> http://web.webhost4 life.com/ innerclock/ index.asp? action=page& name=36
> <http://web.webhost4 life.com/ innerclock/ index.asp? action=page& name=36>
> cheers
> sean
>
> Colin f wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question
> > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any
> > > notice boards.
> > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality
> > > shorter MIDI lead.
> >
> > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal
> > another
> > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through
> something
> > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being
> sent.
> > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes,
> > clock
> > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem.
> >
> > > Can I ask a more general question..you
> > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but
> > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred
> > > method of syncing equipment... is there a reason why you are
> > > not going this route?
> >
> > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC,
> > but I
> > still prefer MIDI clock.
> > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about
> tempo but
> > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device
> > can then
> > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock.
> > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a
> project is
> > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values
> > defined
> > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video
> source.
> > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to
> > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway.
> > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and
> > wouldn't
> > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Colin Fraser
> > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd
> > http://www.sequenti x.com <http://www.sequenti x.com>
> <http://www.sequenti x.com <http://www.sequenti x.com>>
> >
> >
>
>
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]2009-10-25 by sean zoega
Cheers Kevin, it would be great to try the 808 and 606 out with my setup. Ive ordered the sync-lock but it may be a while as its coming from Oz. Thats actually OK as James (at Synth Service Centre) is doing the MIDI mod on my Jupiter4...so I would allow 3 weeks or so. Also Oscar is with a composer friend in London, so I'll see if he's finished with it yet...we swapped, I have his theramin pro at the moment....I was curious and am still playing with it...but I have anough problems get any music out of normal synths let alone a theramin....so pretty much all noise so far (some pretty cool noises though). I am also chatting to the guys at Innerclock to see whether they think its a "possible" to merge the clock from sync-lock with other MIDI info. i.e. it would still be nice to play the PPG via MIDI as well as just clocking the arpeggiator/sequencer. I'm with you on the MIDI clock from DAW systems its absolutely rubbish...I was just actually listening to the tempo of my P3 when it was being clocked from Cubase and it was all over the place...I would guess the variance was 20bpm! I also understand everybody saying just stick to hardware but it does negate lots of synths and processors that I like working with on the MAC (guitar rig, FM8, Reaktor)....not to mention things like vocals, guitars etc. It does seem slightly insane that the music technology industry seems to have resolved the problem of getting hardware and software to work together by just saying NO. Unfortunately its not an option to use the P3 as the master clock as Cubase cant be synced to MIDI clock. Are you saying that Live can be synced to MIDI clock? I had to throw out a perfectly good 8x8 MIDI interface from Steinberg as they dont do the drivers for MAC 10.5+, the only thing I could find that actually works with the new range of MACS is the MOTU range, it will be interesting to see if the MIDI express XT can actually merge MIDI clock and MIDI note date without totally messing up the timing. As the sync-lock essentially creates its own MIDI clock in hardware it should resolve the problem...we'll have to see. Anyway let me get a few synths back in Chorlton and as soon as the sync-lock arrives I'll get in touch and we can have that beer cheers sean Sound Engineer wrote:
> > > Hi Sean. > > Well i'm not far away from Chorlton and sometimes head out there for > drinks... > I would be happy to bring round my 808 or circuit bent 606 to > participate in a Sync 24 test. They both have MIDI mods too so plenty > of scope for testing the all possibilities out. > I'm intrigued myself by the Innerclock Systems Sync Lock unit and am > very intereted in the results/performance... and hearing PPG Wave and > OSCAR in the flesh would be a bonus > > Recent tests of my own Midisport 8x8 MIDI patchbay unit have showed > maximum latency of 6-7ms with MIDItest64 which is poor, though at > least jitter is sub 1ms. The latest drivers don't work with it, nor > does the SP3 update which i've read helped reduce latency on many PC > systems. Maybe that's just on the audio side though. > > I only used Cubase 4 last year briefly for one project but am > surprised you've had so much problem getting sync sorted but not > surprised to see so many people on the forum trying to offer advice > and possible solutions. Hope Sync Lock is it. > > Has to be said though i do use my P3 as master clock for the rest of > my set-up, as Live for all it's flexibility has had it's fair share of > problems with external MIDI sync too, as anyone who checks their > forums would know. Don't know if these are all solved in Live 8. > > As a few folk before have mentioned on here, i would allways trust a > hardware unit's ability for tighter Sync as the Master over a software > based unit. Sometimes PC's are so busy doing so much > clever/complicated stuff, they loose sight of basics like tight sync > as a priority... > > Anyway, i'll message you my mobile if you want to get in touch re. > tests when you are doing them, ok. > > Maybe all the Manchester (UK) based P3 users can hook up for a > "Sequencer Geeks Anonymous" meeting at an undisclosed Chorlton bar... > (and get pi$$ed) > > Cheers, > Kev. > > --- On Sun, 25/10/09, sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk > <mailto:sean%40zoega.co.uk>> wrote: > > From: sean zoega <sean@zoega.co.uk <mailto:sean%40zoega.co.uk>> > Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase > To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > <mailto:analogue-sequencer%40yahoogroups.com> > Date: Sunday, 25 October, 2009, 10:42 > > > > Just to let everyone know I have just ordered a sync-lock so I'll let > > you know if it works. I realise that my earlier question asking if > > anybody has tried it out was nonsense as the sync-lock is only just > > available. Its pretty expensive £300 by the time you have paid the > > postage and I dont know what the customs/VAT hit will be....but if it > > does work (and it better for £300!) then it will be great and will allow > > my whole studio to work in sync. The one thing that I have to try is to > > see wether I can merge the MIDI clock from sync-lock with MIDI note > > on/off messages from other controllers through the MOTO MIDI express > > without messing up the sync. As I have a varied collection of stuff > > (midi'd Jupiter 4, midi'd PPG wave 2.2, Oscar, CR78, Sequentix > > (obviously) and Korg 700s, Roland system 100/100m under Kenton control) > > it should be a reasonably thorough test. I'll let you know, if anybody > > in Chorlton has a sync 24 devive that we could try out it would complete > > the test. I must admit cant wait to get my old analogues working with > > Reaktor....best of both worlds. > > cheers > > sean > > sean zoega wrote: > > > > > > > > > Colin, just read a fantastic article on the need for solid timing on the > > > innerclock systems website by Steve Lipson > > > thought you might also be interested > > > http://web.webhost4 life.com/ innerclock/ index.asp? action=page& > name=36 > > > <http://web.webhost4 life.com/ innerclock/ index.asp? action=page& > name=36> > > > cheers > > > sean > > > > > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > > > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > > > > notice boards. > > > > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > > > > shorter MIDI lead. > > > > > > > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > > > > another > > > > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through > > > something > > > > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being > > > sent. > > > > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > > > > clock > > > > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > > > > > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > > > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > > > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > > > > method of syncing equipment... is there a reason why you are > > > > > not going this route? > > > > > > > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > > > > but I > > > > still prefer MIDI clock. > > > > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about > > > tempo but > > > > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > > > > can then > > > > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > > > > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a > > > project is > > > > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > > > > defined > > > > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video > > > source. > > > > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > > > > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > > > > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > > > > wouldn't > > > > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Colin Fraser > > > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > > > http://www.sequenti x.com <http://www.sequenti x.com> > > > <http://www.sequenti x.com <http://www.sequenti x.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > >
2009-10-25 by Softroom
sean zoega wrote: > Are you saying that Live can be synced to MIDI clock? If not, I'm pretty sure I did... :) -- Paul --- http://www.SmokyFrog.com http://www.youtube.com/WilyEPeyote
2009-10-27 by fb0y2002
I'm up for a drink in Chorlton :) --- In analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com, Sound Engineer <synthmusicstudio@...> wrote:
> > Hi Sean. > > Well i'm not far away from Chorlton and sometimes head out there for drinks... > I would be happy to bring round my 808 or circuit bent 606 to participate in a Sync 24 test. They both have MIDI mods too so plenty of scope for testing the all possibilities out. > I'm intrigued myself by the Innerclock Systems Sync Lock unit and am very intereted in the results/performance... and hearing PPG Wave and OSCAR in the flesh would be a bonus > > Recent tests of my own Midisport 8x8 MIDI patchbay unit have showed maximum latency of 6-7ms with MIDItest64 which is poor, though at least jitter is sub 1ms. The latest drivers don't work with it, nor does the SP3 update which i've read helped reduce latency on many PC systems. Maybe that's just on the audio side though. > > I only used Cubase 4 last year briefly for one project but am surprised you've had so much problem getting sync sorted but not surprised to see so many people on the forum trying to offer advice and possible solutions. Hope Sync Lock is it. > > Has to be said though i do use my P3 as master clock for the rest of my set-up, as Live for all it's flexibility has had it's fair share of problems with external MIDI sync too, as anyone who checks their forums would know. Don't know if these are all solved in Live 8. > > As a few folk before have mentioned on here, i would allways trust a hardware unit's ability for tighter Sync as the Master over a software based unit. Sometimes PC's are so busy doing so much clever/complicated stuff, they loose sight of basics like tight sync as a priority... > > Anyway, i'll message you my mobile if you want to get in touch re. tests when you are doing them, ok. > > Maybe all the Manchester (UK) based P3 users can hook up for a "Sequencer Geeks Anonymous" meeting at an undisclosed Chorlton bar... (and get pi$$ed) > > Cheers, > Kev. > > > --- On Sun, 25/10/09, sean zoega <sean@...> wrote: > > From: sean zoega <sean@...> > Subject: Re: [analogue-sequencer] Re: syncing with cubase > To: analogue-sequencer@yahoogroups.com > Date: Sunday, 25 October, 2009, 10:42 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Just to let everyone know I have just ordered a sync-lock so I'll let > > you know if it works. I realise that my earlier question asking if > > anybody has tried it out was nonsense as the sync-lock is only just > > available. Its pretty expensive £300 by the time you have paid the > > postage and I dont know what the customs/VAT hit will be....but if it > > does work (and it better for £300!) then it will be great and will allow > > my whole studio to work in sync. The one thing that I have to try is to > > see wether I can merge the MIDI clock from sync-lock with MIDI note > > on/off messages from other controllers through the MOTO MIDI express > > without messing up the sync. As I have a varied collection of stuff > > (midi'd Jupiter 4, midi'd PPG wave 2.2, Oscar, CR78, Sequentix > > (obviously) and Korg 700s, Roland system 100/100m under Kenton control) > > it should be a reasonably thorough test. I'll let you know, if anybody > > in Chorlton has a sync 24 devive that we could try out it would complete > > the test. I must admit cant wait to get my old analogues working with > > Reaktor....best of both worlds. > > cheers > > sean > > > > sean zoega wrote: > > > > > > > > > Colin, just read a fantastic article on the need for solid timing on the > > > innerclock systems website by Steve Lipson > > > thought you might also be interested > > > http://web.webhost4 life.com/ innerclock/ index.asp? action=page& name=36 > > > <http://web.webhost4 life.com/ innerclock/ index.asp? action=page& name=36> > > > cheers > > > sean > > > > > > Colin f wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thanks Colin...I will investigate. I have lodged a question > > > > > with Steinberg as I cant see any mentions of problems on any > > > > > notice boards. > > > > > Also I'll do the simple stuff like buying a higher quality > > > > > shorter MIDI lead. > > > > > > > > The sure way to see what's going in, if you can beg, borrow or steal > > > > another > > > > laptop, would be to pass the MIDI from Cubase to the P3 through > > > something > > > > like MIDI-Ox, so you can see exactly when MIDI clock bytes are being > > > sent. > > > > That should clear up very quickly whether there are any missing bytes, > > > > clock > > > > bytes bunched tightly together, or a.n.other problem. > > > > > > > > > Can I ask a more general question..you > > > > > mention new modes of working with MIDI clock with Cirklon but > > > > > from my investigations MTC would seem to be the preferred > > > > > method of syncing equipment... is there a reason why you are > > > > > not going this route? > > > > > > > > The new timing mechanism in Cirklon is going to allow support for MTC, > > > > but I > > > > still prefer MIDI clock. > > > > MTC is a linear timecode. It doesn't carry any information about > > > tempo but > > > > rather provides an absolute timing reference, which a slaved device > > > > can then > > > > use to generate a pre-defined tempo clock. > > > > This is primarily aimed at syncing devices where the tempo of a > > > project is > > > > fixed in advance, either at a single value, or at a series of values > > > > defined > > > > in a tempo map - essential if you're composing to a film or video > > > source. > > > > And it doesn't make much difference if you are locking MIDI tracks to > > > > recorded audio tracks where the tempo is essentially fixed anyway. > > > > I prefer to use MIDI clock, as I always set the tempo by feel, and > > > > wouldn't > > > > like to have a track tied to a certain tempo from the outset. > > > > > > > > Best regards, > > > > Colin Fraser > > > > Sequentix Music Systems Ltd > > > > http://www.sequenti x.com <http://www.sequenti x.com> > > > <http://www.sequenti x.com <http://www.sequenti x.com>> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] >