Doepfer

fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:

A-110 Standard VCO x 2
A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
A-138b Mixer
A-143-2 Quad ADSR
A-143-3 Quad LFO
A-174 Joy Stick
A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/Sync Interface
A-100 Low Cost Suitcase

which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
would still need cables. are there any more options for more
economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
ridiculous amounts of money on.

comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
initial cost down?

thanks,
sean

Hi Sean,

you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It gives you four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex envelope, depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some VCAs, for example the A-132 dual VCA.

York




________________________________

From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo.com>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular


fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:

A-110 Standard VCO x 2
A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
A-138b Mixer
A-143-2 Quad ADSR
A-143-3 Quad LFO
A-174 Joy Stick
A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
A-100 Low Cost Suitcase

which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
would still need cables. are there any more options for more
economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
ridiculous amounts of money on.

comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
initial cost down?

thanks,
sean

    


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
http://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptopaudio/z3000/

You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.

I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.

OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
splitting/multiplying, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.
I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules
that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
they are extremely useful.

http://www.noisebug.net/site/analoguesolutions/index.cfm?id=10
http://www.noisebug.net/site/analoguesolutions/index.cfm?id=21
http://www.noisebug.net/site/planb/index.cfm?id=24
http://www.noisebug.net/site/planb/index.cfm?id=18

You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224
is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll
see if that is any better.

An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any
amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
distort and scream.


On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It gives you
> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex envelope,
> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some VCAs, for
> example the A-132 dual VCA.
>
> York
>
> ________________________________
> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo.com>
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
>
> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
>
> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
> A-138b Mixer
> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
> A-143-3 Quad LFO
> A-174 Joy Stick
> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
>
> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
> ridiculous amounts of money on.
>
> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
> initial cost down?
>
> thanks,
> sean
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 



-- 
www.elanhickler.com

Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is

http://mega.modularplanner.co.uk/standard.html

There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format in one comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.

However


"I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."

Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this decade. And I have an unsprung one as well.

"You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."

This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems to be an article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an inferior product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was that the OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but getting two good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide range? And hold their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?

Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the habitual bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can think of: together with their prices:

Doepfer A-110                    200,-
Doepfer A-111                    350,-        Triangle core
Tip-Top Z-3000                  250,-
Analogue Solutions              185,-
Cwejman VCO 2RM          640,-        2 VCOs + RingMod
Cwejman VCO 6                425,-
Cyindustries Zeroscillator     995,-
Metasonix TM 3                 550,-        2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric Barbour is God.
MFB OSC 1                      220,-        3 DCOs
MFB OSC 2                      299,-        3 VCOs
Plan B Model 15                320           Triangle core
Analogue Systems RS95     240,-
Livewire Dalek VCO          260,-        VCO + RingMod
Livewire AFG                     399,-        

Best

York  



________________________________

From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com>
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular


I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/

You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.

I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.

OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.
I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules
that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
they are extremely useful.

http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10
http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21
http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24
http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18

You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224
is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll
see if that is any better.

An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any
amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
distort and scream.

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Hi Sean,
>
> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It gives you
> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex envelope,
> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some VCAs, for
> example the A-132 dual VCA.
>
> York
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
>
> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
>
> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
> A-138b Mixer
> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
> A-143-3 Quad LFO
> A-174 Joy Stick
> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
>
> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
> ridiculous amounts of money on.
>
> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
> initial cost down?
>
> thanks,
> sean
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 

-- 
www.elanhickler. com
    


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150
each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each
(price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my
personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should
also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will
definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch
tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.

I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known
about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top
Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because
of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the
Analog Systems VCOs do not have.

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is
>
> http://mega.modularplanner.co.uk/standard.html
>
> There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format in one
> comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.
>
> However
>
> "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
> returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."
>
> Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this decade. And I
> have an unsprung one as well.
>
> "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
> A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."
>
> This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems to be an
> article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an inferior
> product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was that the
> OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but getting two
> good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide range? And hold
> their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?
>
> Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by
> filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the habitual
> bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can think of:
> together with their prices:
>
> Doepfer A-110 200,-
> Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core
> Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-
> Analogue Solutions 185,-
> Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod
> Cwejman VCO 6 425,-
> Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-
> Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric Barbour is
> God.
> MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs
> MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs
> Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core
> Analogue Systems RS95 240,-
> Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod
> Livewire AFG 399,-
>
> Best
>
> York
>
> ________________________________
> From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com>
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
>
> I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
> http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/
>
> You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
> A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.
>
> I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
> returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.
>
> OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
> about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
> splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
> multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
> modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.
> I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules
> that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
> attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
> module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
> have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
> they are extremely useful.
>
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18
>
> You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
> degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
> signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224
> is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
> purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll
> see if that is any better.
>
> An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any
> amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
> distort and scream.
>
> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi Sean,
>>
>> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It gives you
>> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex envelope,
>> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some VCAs, for
>> example the A-132 dual VCA.
>>
>> York
>>
>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
>> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
>> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
>>
>> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
>> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
>> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
>> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
>>
>> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
>> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
>> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
>> A-138b Mixer
>> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
>> A-143-3 Quad LFO
>> A-174 Joy Stick
>> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
>> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
>>
>> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
>> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
>> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
>> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
>> ridiculous amounts of money on.
>>
>> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
>> initial cost down?
>>
>> thanks,
>> sean
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
> --
> www.elanhickler. com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 



-- 
www.elanhickler.com

the A110's are nice osc's and offer good 'bung for buck' (as they say).
they have their own sound. some like it some not.
simple as that.
 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com> wrote:

From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:35 AM






York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150
each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each
(price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my
personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should
also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will
definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch
tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.

I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known
about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top
Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because
of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the
Analog Systems VCOs do not have.

On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is
>
> http://mega. modularplanner. co.uk/standard. html
>
> There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format in one
> comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.
>
> However
>
> "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
> returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."
>
> Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this decade. And I
> have an unsprung one as well.
>
> "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
> A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."
>
> This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems to be an
> article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an inferior
> product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was that the
> OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but getting two
> good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide range? And hold
> their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?
>
> Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by
> filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the habitual
> bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can think of:
> together with their prices:
>
> Doepfer A-110 200,-
> Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core
> Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-
> Analogue Solutions 185,-
> Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod
> Cwejman VCO 6 425,-
> Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-
> Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric Barbour is
> God.
> MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs
> MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs
> Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core
> Analogue Systems RS95 240,-
> Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod
> Livewire AFG 399,-
>
> Best
>
> York
>
> ____________ _________ _________ __
> From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail. com>
> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
>
> I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
> http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/
>
> You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
> A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.
>
> I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
> returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.
>
> OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
> about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
> splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
> multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
> modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.
> I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules
> that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
> attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
> module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
> have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
> they are extremely useful.
>
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24
> http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18
>
> You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
> degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
> signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224
> is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
> purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll
> see if that is any better.
>
> An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any
> amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
> distort and scream.
>
> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Hi Sean,
>>
>> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It gives you
>> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex envelope,
>> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some VCAs, for
>> example the A-132 dual VCA.
>>
>> York
>>
>> ____________ _________ _________ __
>> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
>> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
>> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
>> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
>>
>> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
>> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
>> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
>> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
>>
>> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
>> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
>> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
>> A-138b Mixer
>> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
>> A-143-3 Quad LFO
>> A-174 Joy Stick
>> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
>> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
>>
>> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
>> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
>> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
>> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
>> ridiculous amounts of money on.
>>
>> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
>> initial cost down?
>>
>> thanks,
>> sean
>>
>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>
>>
>
> --
> www.elanhickler. com
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
> 

-- 
www.elanhickler. com
 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

sean

I think you have a good selection, but my personal choice would be to 
forget the A-143-3 and get another VCO or two instead - you can 
always use them at low frequencies and LFOs are overrated generally.

You will need VCAs, the A-132 looks like a good option. The multimode 
filter is a bit of a gamble and I would probably go for a dedicated 
low-pass and save up for a Hi-pass later.

Think of the module selection on a Korg MS-10 (one of my favorite 
live performance synths)  - 1 VCO, 1 VCF, 1 ADSR, 1 VCA, 1 LFO - and 
you'll realise that you don't need loads of modules to create some 
very fine, expressive and useful sounds.

best of luck

sean


>fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
>furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him. unfurtunately,
>because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
>likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
>
>A-110 Standard VCO x 2
>A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
>A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
>A-138b Mixer
>A-143-2 Quad ADSR
>A-143-3 Quad LFO
>A-174 Joy Stick
>A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/Sync Interface
>A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
>
>which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
>would still need cables. are there any more options for more
>economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
>i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
>ridiculous amounts of money on.
>
>comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
>initial cost down?
>
>thanks,
>sean
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

my intention is to start with  simple system, i will eventually
replace and add more and different osc's and have a decent variety of
filters. i would also add an external input/envelope follower for
processing external sounds. i am very fond of LFOs and the various
ways you can abuse them. i knew i needed a VCA and a mixer, though i
forgot to add them to the list.

and i have certainly looked at other manufactures. there are a lot of
really cool modules out there. this is certainly something that could
keep me perpetually broke.

thanks for the input and insight.

s

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros
<synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
> the A110's are nice osc's and offer good 'bung for buck' (as they say).
> they have their own sound. some like it some not.
> simple as that.
>  
> 
> 
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
> 
> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Argitoth <argitoth@...> wrote:
> 
> From: Argitoth <argitoth@...>
> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:35 AM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150
> each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each
> (price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my
> personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should
> also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will
> definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch
> tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.
> 
> I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known
> about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top
> Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because
> of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the
> Analog Systems VCOs do not have.
> 
> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@...> wrote:
> > Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is
> >
> > http://mega. modularplanner. co.uk/standard. html
> >
> > There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format
in one
> > comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.
> >
> > However
> >
> > "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
> > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."
> >
> > Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this
decade. And I
> > have an unsprung one as well.
> >
> > "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
> > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."
> >
> > This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems
to be an
> > article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an inferior
> > product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was
that the
> > OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but
getting two
> > good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide
range? And hold
> > their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?
> >
> > Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by
> > filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the
habitual
> > bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can
think of:
> > together with their prices:
> >
> > Doepfer A-110 200,-
> > Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core
> > Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-
> > Analogue Solutions 185,-
> > Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod
> > Cwejman VCO 6 425,-
> > Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-
> > Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric
Barbour is
> > God.
> > MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs
> > MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs
> > Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core
> > Analogue Systems RS95 240,-
> > Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod
> > Livewire AFG 399,-
> >
> > Best
> >
> > York
> >
> > ____________ _________ _________ __
> > From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail. com>
> > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM
> > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
> >
> > I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
> > http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/
> >
> > You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer
> > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.
> >
> > I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it
> > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.
> >
> > OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
> > about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
> > splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
> > multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
> > modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.
> > I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules
> > that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
> > attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
> > module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
> > have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
> > they are extremely useful.
> >
> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10
> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21
> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24
> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18
> >
> > You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
> > degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
> > signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224
> > is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
> > purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll
> > see if that is any better.
> >
> > An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any
> > amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
> > distort and scream.
> >
> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@...> wrote:
> >> Hi Sean,
> >>
> >> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It
gives you
> >> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex
envelope,
> >> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some
VCAs, for
> >> example the A-132 dual VCA.
> >>
> >> York
> >>
> >> ____________ _________ _________ __
> >> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
> >> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> >> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
> >> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
> >>
> >> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.
> >> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him.
unfurtunately,

> >> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
> >> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
> >>
> >> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
> >> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
> >> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
> >> A-138b Mixer
> >> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
> >> A-143-3 Quad LFO
> >> A-174 Joy Stick
> >> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
> >> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
> >>
> >> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i
> >> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
> >> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and
> >> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
> >> ridiculous amounts of money on.
> >>
> >> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the
> >> initial cost down?
> >>
> >> thanks,
> >> sean
> >>
> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >>
> >>
> >
> > --
> > www.elanhickler. com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> > 
> 
> -- 
> www.elanhickler. com
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

oh, i know it will not sound like a buchla. i am convinced that thing
could make anything sound weak. but a 200e is a whole lot of money and
i don't think it would be fiscally responsible for me to take out an
equity line on the house to get a synth. though the though has crossed
my mind. would anyone here let a homeless guy with a 200e crash on
their couch?

s


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Joey Fedrow <v605aql@...> wrote:
>
> If your coming from a buchla background, I suspect you'll be sorely
disappointed by the doepfer. You might want to just start saving for a
200e. 
> 
> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Sean Hart <dubvegan@...> wrote:
> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@...>
> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:43 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>     
>             my intention is to start with  simple system, i will
eventually
> 
> replace and add more and different osc's and have a decent variety of
> 
> filters. i would also add an external input/envelope follower for
> 
> processing external sounds. i am very fond of LFOs and the various
> 
> ways you can abuse them. i knew i needed a VCA and a mixer, though i
> 
> forgot to add them to the list.
> 
> 
> 
> and i have certainly looked at other manufactures. there are a lot of
> 
> really cool modules out there. this is certainly something that could
> 
> keep me perpetually broke.
> 
> 
> 
> thanks for the input and insight.
> 
> 
> 
> s
> 
> 
> 
> --- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
> 
> <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
> 
> >
> 
> > the A110's are nice osc's and offer good 'bung for buck' (as they
say).
> 
> > they have their own sound. some like it some not.
> 
> > simple as that.
> 
> >  
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> 
> > [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> 
> > www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> 
> > www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> 
> > www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> 
> > www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> 
> > www. DiN. org. uk
> 
> > www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
> 
> > www. shimarecords. co. uk
> 
> > www. rubberrecords. gr
> 
> > Athens - Greece
> 
> > 
> 
> > --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Argitoth <argitoth@ .> wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> > From: Argitoth <argitoth@ .>
> 
> > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
> 
> > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> 
> > Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:35 AM
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150
> 
> > each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each
> 
> > (price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my
> 
> > personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should
> 
> > also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will
> 
> > definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch
> 
> > tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.
> 
> > 
> 
> > I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known
> 
> > about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top
> 
> > Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because
> 
> > of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the
> 
> > Analog Systems VCOs do not have.
> 
> > 
> 
> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@> wrote:
> 
> > > Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is
> 
> > >
> 
> > > http://mega. modularplanner. co.uk/standard. html
> 
> > >
> 
> > > There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format
> 
> in one
> 
> > > comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > However
> 
> > >
> 
> > > "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> 
> > > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the
spring... it
> 
> > > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this
> 
> decade. And I
> 
> > > have an unsprung one as well.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO
(doepfer
> 
> > > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."
> 
> > >
> 
> > > This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems
> 
> to be an
> 
> > > article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an
inferior
> 
> > > product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was
> 
> that the
> 
> > > OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but
> 
> getting two
> 
> > > good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide
> 
> range? And hold
> 
> > > their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by
> 
> > > filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the
> 
> habitual
> 
> > > bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can
> 
> think of:
> 
> > > together with their prices:
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Doepfer A-110 200,-
> 
> > > Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core
> 
> > > Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-
> 
> > > Analogue Solutions 185,-
> 
> > > Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod
> 
> > > Cwejman VCO 6 425,-
> 
> > > Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-
> 
> > > Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric
> 
> Barbour is
> 
> > > God.
> 
> > > MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs
> 
> > > MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs
> 
> > > Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core
> 
> > > Analogue Systems RS95 240,-
> 
> > > Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod
> 
> > > Livewire AFG 399,-
> 
> > >
> 
> > > Best
> 
> > >
> 
> > > York
> 
> > >
> 
> > > ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
> > > From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail. com>
> 
> > > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> 
> > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM
> 
> > > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
> 
> > >
> 
> > > I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
> 
> > > http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/
> 
> > >
> 
> > > You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO
(doepfer
> 
> > > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
> 
> > > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the
spring... it
> 
> > > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
> 
> > > about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
> 
> > > splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
> 
> > > multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
> 
> > > modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing
modules.
> 
> > > I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging
modules
> 
> > > that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
> 
> > > attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
> 
> > > module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
> 
> > > have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
> 
> > > they are extremely useful.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10
> 
> > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21
> 
> > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24
> 
> > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18
> 
> > >
> 
> > > You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
> 
> > > degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
> 
> > > signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The
MX224
> 
> > > is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
> 
> > > purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so
I'll
> 
> > > see if that is any better.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal
by any
> 
> > > amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
> 
> > > distort and scream.
> 
> > >
> 
> > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@> wrote:
> 
> > >> Hi Sean,
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It
> 
> gives you
> 
> > >> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex
> 
> envelope,
> 
> > >> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some
> 
> VCAs, for
> 
> > >> example the A-132 dual VCA.
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> York
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> ____________ _________ _________ __
> 
> > >> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
> 
> > >> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
> 
> > >> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
> 
> > >> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a
buchla 200.
> 
> > >> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him.
> 
> unfurtunately,
> 
> > >> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
> 
> > >> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
> 
> > >> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
> 
> > >> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
> 
> > >> A-138b Mixer
> 
> > >> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
> 
> > >> A-143-3 Quad LFO
> 
> > >> A-174 Joy Stick
> 
> > >> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
> 
> > >> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money)
and i
> 
> > >> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
> 
> > >> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more
modules and
> 
> > >> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
> 
> > >> ridiculous amounts of money on.
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me
bring the

> 
> > >> initial cost down?
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> thanks,
> 
> > >> sean
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >>
> 
> > >
> 
> > > --
> 
> > > www.elanhickler. com
> 
> > >
> 
> > >
> 
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> > >
> 
> > > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > -- 
> 
> > www.elanhickler. com
> 
> >  
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> > 
> 
> >       
> 
> > 
> 
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> 
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
>       
> 
>     
>     
> 	
> 	 
> 	
> 	
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 	
> 
> 
> 	
> 	
> 
> 
>       
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>

If your coming from a buchla background, I suspect you'll be sorely disappointed by the doepfer. You might want to just start saving for a 200e. 

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo.com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:43 PM










    
            my intention is to start with  simple system, i will eventually

replace and add more and different osc's and have a decent variety of

filters. i would also add an external input/envelope follower for

processing external sounds. i am very fond of LFOs and the various

ways you can abuse them. i knew i needed a VCA and a mixer, though i

forgot to add them to the list.



and i have certainly looked at other manufactures. there are a lot of

really cool modules out there. this is certainly something that could

keep me perpetually broke.



thanks for the input and insight.



s



--- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros

<synth_freak_ 2000@...> wrote:

>

> the A110's are nice osc's and offer good 'bung for buck' (as they say).

> they have their own sound. some like it some not.

> simple as that.

>  

> 

> 

> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist

> [Doepfer_a100] group owner

> www. parallel - worlds - music. com

> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic

> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic

> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist

> www. DiN. org. uk

> www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com

> www. shimarecords. co. uk

> www. rubberrecords. gr

> Athens - Greece

> 

> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Argitoth <argitoth@.. .> wrote:

> 

> From: Argitoth <argitoth@.. .>

> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular

> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:35 AM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150

> each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each

> (price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my

> personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should

> also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will

> definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch

> tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.

> 

> I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known

> about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top

> Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because

> of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the

> Analog Systems VCOs do not have.

> 

> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@...> wrote:

> > Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is

> >

> > http://mega. modularplanner. co.uk/standard. html

> >

> > There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format

in one

> > comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.

> >

> > However

> >

> > "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer

> > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it

> > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."

> >

> > Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this

decade. And I

> > have an unsprung one as well.

> >

> > "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer

> > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."

> >

> > This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems

to be an

> > article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an inferior

> > product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was

that the

> > OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but

getting two

> > good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide

range? And hold

> > their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?

> >

> > Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by

> > filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the

habitual

> > bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can

think of:

> > together with their prices:

> >

> > Doepfer A-110 200,-

> > Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core

> > Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-

> > Analogue Solutions 185,-

> > Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod

> > Cwejman VCO 6 425,-

> > Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-

> > Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric

Barbour is

> > God.

> > MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs

> > MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs

> > Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core

> > Analogue Systems RS95 240,-

> > Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod

> > Livewire AFG 399,-

> >

> > Best

> >

> > York

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail. com>

> > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular

> >

> > I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):

> > http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/

> >

> > You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer

> > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.

> >

> > I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer

> > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it

> > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.

> >

> > OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think

> > about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and

> > splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have

> > multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some

> > modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.

> > I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules

> > that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated

> > attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a

> > module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that

> > have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but

> > they are extremely useful.

> >

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18

> >

> > You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal

> > degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct

> > signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224

> > is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general

> > purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll

> > see if that is any better.

> >

> > An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any

> > amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters

> > distort and scream.

> >

> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@...> wrote:

> >> Hi Sean,

> >>

> >> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It

gives you

> >> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex

envelope,

> >> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some

VCAs, for

> >> example the A-132 dual VCA.

> >>

> >> York

> >>

> >> ____________ _________ _________ __

> >> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>

> >> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> >> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM

> >> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular

> >>

> >> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.

> >> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him.

unfurtunately,

> >> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most

> >> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:

> >>

> >> A-110 Standard VCO x 2

> >> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator

> >> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)

> >> A-138b Mixer

> >> A-143-2 Quad ADSR

> >> A-143-3 Quad LFO

> >> A-174 Joy Stick

> >> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface

> >> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase

> >>

> >> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i

> >> would still need cables. are there any more options for more

> >> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and

> >> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,

> >> ridiculous amounts of money on.

> >>

> >> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the

> >> initial cost down?

> >>

> >> thanks,

> >> sean

> >>

> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>

> >>

> >

> > --

> > www.elanhickler. com

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > 

> 

> -- 

> www.elanhickler. com

>  

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

>       

> 

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>




      

    
    
	
	 
	
	








	


	
	


      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

yes, if you bring your 2000e with you

my couch is in berlin

R

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Sean Hart 
  To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 8:18 PM
  Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular


  oh, i know it will not sound like a buchla. i am convinced that thing
  could make anything sound weak. but a 200e is a whole lot of money and
  i don't think it would be fiscally responsible for me to take out an
  equity line on the house to get a synth. though the though has crossed
  my mind. would anyone here let a homeless guy with a 200e crash on
  their couch?

  s

  --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Joey Fedrow <v605aql@...> wrote:
  >
  > If your coming from a buchla background, I suspect you'll be sorely
  disappointed by the doepfer. You might want to just start saving for a
  200e. 
  > 
  > --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Sean Hart <dubvegan@...> wrote:
  > From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@...>
  > Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular
  > To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
  > Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:43 PM
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > my intention is to start with simple system, i will
  eventually
  > 
  > replace and add more and different osc's and have a decent variety of
  > 
  > filters. i would also add an external input/envelope follower for
  > 
  > processing external sounds. i am very fond of LFOs and the various
  > 
  > ways you can abuse them. i knew i needed a VCA and a mixer, though i
  > 
  > forgot to add them to the list.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > and i have certainly looked at other manufactures. there are a lot of
  > 
  > really cool modules out there. this is certainly something that could
  > 
  > keep me perpetually broke.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > thanks for the input and insight.
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > s
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > --- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros
  > 
  > <synth_freak_ 2000@> wrote:
  > 
  > >
  > 
  > > the A110's are nice osc's and offer good 'bung for buck' (as they
  say).
  > 
  > > they have their own sound. some like it some not.
  > 
  > > simple as that.
  > 
  > >  
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
  > 
  > > [Doepfer_a100] group owner
  > 
  > > www. parallel - worlds - music. com
  > 
  > > www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
  > 
  > > www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
  > 
  > > www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
  > 
  > > www. DiN. org. uk
  > 
  > > www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com
  > 
  > > www. shimarecords. co. uk
  > 
  > > www. rubberrecords. gr
  > 
  > > Athens - Greece
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Argitoth <argitoth@ .> wrote:
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > From: Argitoth <argitoth@ .>
  > 
  > > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
  > 
  > > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
  > 
  > > Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:35 AM
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150
  > 
  > > each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each
  > 
  > > (price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my
  > 
  > > personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should
  > 
  > > also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will
  > 
  > > definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch
  > 
  > > tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known
  > 
  > > about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top
  > 
  > > Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because
  > 
  > > of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the
  > 
  > > Analog Systems VCOs do not have.
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@> wrote:
  > 
  > > > Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > http://mega. modularplanner. co.uk/standard. html
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format
  > 
  > in one
  > 
  > > > comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > However
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
  > 
  > > > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the
  spring... it
  > 
  > > > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this
  > 
  > decade. And I
  > 
  > > > have an unsprung one as well.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO
  (doepfer
  > 
  > > > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems
  > 
  > to be an
  > 
  > > > article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an
  inferior
  > 
  > > > product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was
  > 
  > that the
  > 
  > > > OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but
  > 
  > getting two
  > 
  > > > good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide
  > 
  > range? And hold
  > 
  > > > their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by
  > 
  > > > filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the
  > 
  > habitual
  > 
  > > > bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can
  > 
  > think of:
  > 
  > > > together with their prices:
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > Doepfer A-110 200,-
  > 
  > > > Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core
  > 
  > > > Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-
  > 
  > > > Analogue Solutions 185,-
  > 
  > > > Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod
  > 
  > > > Cwejman VCO 6 425,-
  > 
  > > > Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-
  > 
  > > > Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric
  > 
  > Barbour is
  > 
  > > > God.
  > 
  > > > MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs
  > 
  > > > MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs
  > 
  > > > Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core
  > 
  > > > Analogue Systems RS95 240,-
  > 
  > > > Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod
  > 
  > > > Livewire AFG 399,-
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > Best
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > York
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > ____________ _________ _________ __
  > 
  > > > From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail. com>
  > 
  > > > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
  > 
  > > > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM
  > 
  > > > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):
  > 
  > > > http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO
  (doepfer
  > 
  > > > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer
  > 
  > > > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the
  spring... it
  > 
  > > > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think
  > 
  > > > about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and
  > 
  > > > splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have
  > 
  > > > multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some
  > 
  > > > modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing
  modules.
  > 
  > > > I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging
  modules
  > 
  > > > that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated
  > 
  > > > attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a
  > 
  > > > module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that
  > 
  > > > have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but
  > 
  > > > they are extremely useful.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10
  > 
  > > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21
  > 
  > > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24
  > 
  > > > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal
  > 
  > > > degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct
  > 
  > > > signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The
  MX224
  > 
  > > > is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general
  > 
  > > > purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so
  I'll
  > 
  > > > see if that is any better.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal
  by any
  > 
  > > > amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters
  > 
  > > > distort and scream.
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@> wrote:
  > 
  > > >> Hi Sean,
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It
  > 
  > gives you
  > 
  > > >> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex
  > 
  > envelope,
  > 
  > > >> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some
  > 
  > VCAs, for
  > 
  > > >> example the A-132 dual VCA.
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> York
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> ____________ _________ _________ __
  > 
  > > >> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
  > 
  > > >> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
  > 
  > > >> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM
  > 
  > > >> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a
  buchla 200.
  > 
  > > >> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him.
  > 
  > unfurtunately,
  > 
  > > >> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most
  > 
  > > >> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> A-110 Standard VCO x 2
  > 
  > > >> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator
  > 
  > > >> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)
  > 
  > > >> A-138b Mixer
  > 
  > > >> A-143-2 Quad ADSR
  > 
  > > >> A-143-3 Quad LFO
  > 
  > > >> A-174 Joy Stick
  > 
  > > >> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface
  > 
  > > >> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money)
  and i
  > 
  > > >> would still need cables. are there any more options for more
  > 
  > > >> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more
  modules and
  > 
  > > >> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,
  > 
  > > >> ridiculous amounts of money on.
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me
  bring the
  > 
  > > >> initial cost down?
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> thanks,
  > 
  > > >> sean
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >>
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > --
  > 
  > > > www.elanhickler. com
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > > >
  > 
  > > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > -- 
  > 
  > > www.elanhickler. com
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > 
  > 
  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  > 
  > >
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > 
  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  >



   

-- 
I am using the free version of SPAMfighter.
We are a community of 5.6 million users fighting spam.
SPAMfighter has removed 1141 of my spam emails to date.
Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

The Professional version does not have this message


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

the Doepfer/euro modulars can make amazing sounds with the right programming.
 
Buchla excels at specirfic sounds, Doepfer/euro modulars excel at others.
 
all modulars have their strengths and weaknesses...

its not the best idea, for example, to make tonal stuff with a Buchla (of course it can be done though...), when tonal stuff is more easily done with euro/frac modulars...
 

Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Joey Fedrow <v605aql@yahoo.com> wrote:

From: Joey Fedrow <v605aql@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 8:50 PM






If your coming from a buchla background, I suspect you'll be sorely disappointed by the doepfer. You might want to just start saving for a 200e. 

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com> wrote:
From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular
To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 1:43 PM

my intention is to start with simple system, i will eventually

replace and add more and different osc's and have a decent variety of

filters. i would also add an external input/envelope follower for

processing external sounds. i am very fond of LFOs and the various

ways you can abuse them. i knew i needed a VCA and a mixer, though i

forgot to add them to the list.

and i have certainly looked at other manufactures. there are a lot of

really cool modules out there. this is certainly something that could

keep me perpetually broke.

thanks for the input and insight.

s

--- In Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com, Bakis Sirros

<synth_freak_ 2000@...> wrote:

>

> the A110's are nice osc's and offer good 'bung for buck' (as they say).

> they have their own sound. some like it some not.

> simple as that.

>  

> 

> 

> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist

> [Doepfer_a100] group owner

> www. parallel - worlds - music. com

> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic

> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic

> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist

> www. DiN. org. uk

> www. musicamaximamagneti ca. com

> www. shimarecords. co. uk

> www. rubberrecords. gr

> Athens - Greece

> 

> --- On Sun, 11/23/08, Argitoth <argitoth@.. .> wrote:

> 

> From: Argitoth <argitoth@.. .>

> Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular

> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 7:35 AM

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> York, to defend myself, I did own A-110 VCOs which I got for $150

> each. I sold them to buy Analog Systems VCOs for about $255 each

> (price includes power conversion). I should have said that it is my

> personal opinion that I think A-110s have low bang-for-buck. I should

> also say I have a very low tolerance for imperfections, so others will

> definitely find the A-110s suitable. Yes, they did have good pitch

> tracking, but for $50 more you can buy VCOs with more features.

> 

> I would have purchased the Tip Top VCOs in a heart beat had I known

> about them (but they weren't even announced when I got my VCOs). Top

> Top VCOs are less expensive than Analog Systems VCOs (mainly because

> of power conversion) and probably have some niiice features that the

> Analog Systems VCOs do not have.

> 

> On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 9:01 PM, york luethje <ybl@...> wrote:

> > Argitoth is right, no need to rush. A good starting point is

> >

> > http://mega. modularplanner. co.uk/standard. html

> >

> > There you have all current manufacturers for the eurorack-format

in one

> > comprehensive package. And you definitely should get a multiple.

> >

> > However

> >

> > "I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer

> > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it

> > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion."

> >

> > Never heard of that. Mine works fine for the best part of this

decade. And I

> > have an unsprung one as well.

> >

> > "You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer

> > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck."

> >

> > This kind of sentiment always struck me as a bit strange. It seems

to be an

> > article of faith amongst the cognoscenti that the A-110 is an inferior

> > product. It is not considering the price-point. My impression was

that the

> > OP had a budget of USD 2k. Sure there are other oscillators but

getting two

> > good ones for USD 400? That also track very well over a wide

range? And hold

> > their tuning no matter what, over days if need be?

> >

> > Debates over oscillators are superseded in subjective POV only by

> > filter-battles and I don't want to get into that. Just dislike the

habitual

> > bashing of a very competent product. Below are the OSCs I can

think of:

> > together with their prices:

> >

> > Doepfer A-110 200,-

> > Doepfer A-111 350,- Triangle core

> > Tip-Top Z-3000 250,-

> > Analogue Solutions 185,-

> > Cwejman VCO 2RM 640,- 2 VCOs + RingMod

> > Cwejman VCO 6 425,-

> > Cyindustries Zeroscillator 995,-

> > Metasonix TM 3 550,- 2 OSCs, not much tracking but...mmmh! Eric

Barbour is

> > God.

> > MFB OSC 1 220,- 3 DCOs

> > MFB OSC 2 299,- 3 VCOs

> > Plan B Model 15 320 Triangle core

> > Analogue Systems RS95 240,-

> > Livewire Dalek VCO 260,- VCO + RingMod

> > Livewire AFG 399,-

> >

> > Best

> >

> > York

> >

> > ____________ _________ _________ __

> > From: Argitoth <argitoth@gmail. com>

> > To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> > Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 8:57:36 PM

> > Subject: Re: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular

> >

> > I would suggest Tip Top Audio VCOs (which I don't own):

> > http://www.analogue haven.com/ tiptopaudio/ z3000/

> >

> > You definitely don't want to spend money on the cheapest VCO (doepfer

> > A-110) as you'd be getting the least bang for buck.

> >

> > I heard that some people like to remove the spring from the Doepfer

> > joystick as it doesn't return back to its center with the spring... it

> > returns a bit off center which would be gay in my opinion.

> >

> > OK! YOU REALLLLLLY HAVE TO STOP AND THINK ABOUT THIS: Really think

> > about how you are going to handle mixing/merging, inverting, and

> > splitting/multiplyi ng, and attenuating signals. Some modules have

> > multiple ins and multiple outs, some modules can attenuate, some

> > modules can't, etc. There are many options for signal routing modules.

> > I personally think the best way to go it to get mixing/merging modules

> > that don't have attenuation knobs and get one or two dedicated

> > attenuation modules. The reason for this is that most of the time, a

> > module's input has an attenuator. Signal Mixers and Multipliers that

> > have multiple ins/outs generally don't have attenuation knobs, but

> > they are extremely useful.

> >

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=10

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ analoguesolution s/index.cfm? id=21

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=24

> > http://www.noisebug .net/site/ planb/index. cfm?id=18

> >

> > You need one signal multiplier that is buffered (low signal

> > degradation when multiplying a signal) so that you can route 1v/oct

> > signals to multiple oscillators, filters, and whatever else. The MX224

> > is not good enough for some reason, but it's GREAT for general

> > purposes. I have a Plan B Model 31 Buffered Multi in the mail so I'll

> > see if that is any better.

> >

> > An A-138c is a very useful mixer because it can invert a signal by any

> > amount. By the way, signal inversion is one way to make filters

> > distort and scream.

> >

> > On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 6:11 PM, york luethje <ybl@...> wrote:

> >> Hi Sean,

> >>

> >> you could substitute the A-143-2 and A-143-3 with a A-143-1. It

gives you

> >> four independent AD envelopes or 4 independent LFOs or a complex

envelope,

> >> depending on mode. You should definitely think about adding some

VCAs, for

> >> example the A-132 dual VCA.

> >>

> >> York

> >>

> >> ____________ _________ _________ __

> >> From: Sean Hart <dubvegan@yahoo. com>

> >> To: Doepfer_a100@ yahoogroups. com

> >> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 7:15:34 PM

> >> Subject: [Doepfer_a100] starting a modular

> >>

> >> fortunately and unfortunately, i have a friend that has a buchla 200.

> >> furtunately, because i get to play it when i visit him.

unfurtunately,

> >> because it makes me want an analogue modular ($$$). i would most

> >> likely have to build it a little at a time, but i am thinking:

> >>

> >> A-110 Standard VCO x 2

> >> A-114 Dual Ringmodulator

> >> A-121 Multimode Filter (VCF2)

> >> A-138b Mixer

> >> A-143-2 Quad ADSR

> >> A-143-3 Quad LFO

> >> A-174 Joy Stick

> >> A-190 MIDI-to-CV/Gate/ Sync Interface

> >> A-100 Low Cost Suitcase

> >>

> >> which would be just under $2000 (still a decent chunk of money) and i

> >> would still need cables. are there any more options for more

> >> economical modules? and yes, i would continue to buy more modules and

> >> i know that it is something that i would spend, in the long term,

> >> ridiculous amounts of money on.

> >>

> >> comments? suggestions? anything you are selling to help me bring the

> >> initial cost down?

> >>

> >> thanks,

> >> sean

> >>

> >> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >>

> >>

> >

> > --

> > www.elanhickler. com

> >

> >

> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> >

> > 

> 

> -- 

> www.elanhickler. com

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> 

> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

>











[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sean Hart, if you are harboring the mindset that you have to buy all
doepfer modules because you have a "limited" budget of $2000, you
should get rid of that mindset. Not all doepfer modules give you the
most features for the least money. Some modules from other
manufacturers cost less and even have more features that the doepfer
equivalent. You would be doing a disservice to yourself if you didn't
check out modules from every eurorack manufacturer.

One more thing! Don't be turned off by a $300 module. Some modules
that have a high price tag can do everything that three lesser modules
can do. Such as these:

http://www.bigcitymusic.com/product.asp?cat=new&pid=1000593 (great
alternative to doepfer's envelope follower)
http://www.ear-group.net/model_13.html (buchla-style module)
http://www.ear-group.net/model_25.html (multi-functional audio processor)
http://www.ear-group.net/model_26.html (multi-functional signal processor)

Doepfer: http://www.doepfer.de/a100.htm
Sold by Analogue Haven: http://www.analoguehaven.com/doepfer/

Cwejman: http://www.cwejman.net/cwejman.net/modular.htm
Sold by Analogue Haven: http://www.analoguehaven.com/cwejman/modules/

Analogue Systems: http://www.analoguesolutions.com/
Sold by Big City Music: http://www.bigcitymusic.com/dept.asp?cat=new&idp=15

Plan B: http://www.ear-group.net/planb_start.html
Sold by Noisebug: http://www.noisebug.net/

Analogue Solutions: http://www.analoguesolutions.com/
Sold by Noisebug: http://www.noisebug.net/

Actually, there's a large handful of eurorack manufacturers on Analogue Haven;
MFB: http://www.analoguehaven.com/mfb/modules/
Metasonix: http://www.analoguehaven.com/metasonix/
Harvestman: http://www.analoguehaven.com/theharvestman/
Elby Designs: http://www.analoguehaven.com/elbydesigns/
Livewire: http://www.analoguehaven.com/livewire/
Tip Top Audio: http://www.analoguehaven.com/tiptopaudio/
Makenoise: http://www.analoguehaven.com/makenoise/

You might want to check out this as an alternative to the doepfer ring
mod. I've heard good things about it:
http://www.analoguehaven.com/makenoise/moddemod/

There's a lot to choose from. Choosing modules is a lot like playing
minesweeper. You never know when you're going to get a module with an
unexpected feature that really makes you unhappy with it. Make sure
you get at least one opinion on ever module. My budget was $1000 when
I started building my synth. Because I was unhappy with so many
modules, I ended up spending more than $3000 (also partly because I
HAD to get some things or I'd feel my synth was horribly incomplete).
Check out my ongiong modular thread just to get an idea of what can go
wrong: http://modularsynth.net/viewtopic.php?t=1792&start=0

I'm trying to decide if this would generate any interest?

We can redo the PCB so that it has a Doepfer connector and will work on
12V. There is a source for a nice Doepfer style front panel. An assembled
board with pots, LEDs installed would go for $199. You or a specific
vendor would add the front panel, knobs, jacks, switches, power cable and
wire up the jacks and switches. I would expect about a $299 price on this
complete unit.

Thanks for the input!
-- 
John Blacet

I also think that if you are going to invest in a module, make it a good 
one and make it the one you want rather than just the one you can 
afford. That is the nice thing about modular is that you can build it up 
over time. The thing that makes the Buchla special isn't necessarily the 
sounds of the modules, but how he built them from a user's perspective, 
combined many useful features into one module. My favorite Buchla module 
remains the 259 Programmable Complex Waveform Generator, which combines 
2 VCOs with a VCA, a waveshaper and several other features, and is a 
project I am working to emulate with available DIY circuits currently.

My advice is to get a case and add as you go. I invested quite a bit at 
the start, but now I actually build most of my modules from PCBs or 
schematics. But one module that I've always been very happy with is the 
Cwejman VCO-2RM, since it has quite a bit of things packed into it. Both 
VCOs can be made LFOs, and they are normalled so that one modulates the 
other. I don't use the ringmod, but at least I know it's there. The PWM 
is quite nice, although some waveshaping function would be a good addition.

Conversely, the Analogue Systems is alright, but I don't think the 
single-knob fine tuning is quite tight enough for me, and the 
waveshaping from saw to sine means that you never really get a clean, 
undistorted sinewave out of it. Like many, I was warned away from the 
Doepfer VCOs, but I also think that remains a matter of taste on what 
kind of sound you want.

best!
D.

Argitoth wrote:

> One more thing! Don't be turned off by a $300 module. Some modules
> that have a high price tag can do everything that three lesser modules
> can do. Such as these:

> Cwejman: http://www.cwejman.net/cwejman.net/modular.htm
> Sold by Analogue Haven: http://www.analoguehaven.com/cwejman/modules/

-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 120:
"Move towards the unimportant"

if you would sell this as a complete, ready to go, module, i would be very interested and i think many other euro users would be too.


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Sun, 11/23/08, John Blacet <blacet@blacet.com> wrote:

From: John Blacet <blacet@blacet.com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] Mini Wave in Eurorack?
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 23, 2008, 10:59 PM






I'm trying to decide if this would generate any interest?

We can redo the PCB so that it has a Doepfer connector and will work on
12V. There is a source for a nice Doepfer style front panel. An assembled
board with pots, LEDs installed would go for $199. You or a specific
vendor would add the front panel, knobs, jacks, switches, power cable and
wire up the jacks and switches. I would expect about a $299 price on this
complete unit.

Thanks for the input!
-- 
John Blacet

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Yes, absolutely.

I have two Miniwaves with front panels by Peter Grenader.  I'd love  
two more.

Best wishes,

Thighpaulsandra





On 23 Nov 2008, at 20:59, John Blacet wrote:

> I'm trying to decide if this would generate any interest?
>
> We can redo the PCB so that it has a Doepfer connector and will  
> work on
> 12V. There is a source for a nice Doepfer style front panel. An  
> assembled
> board with pots, LEDs installed would go for $199. You or a specific
> vendor would add the front panel, knobs, jacks, switches, power  
> cable and
> wire up the jacks and switches. I would expect about a $299 price  
> on this
> complete unit.
>
> Thanks for the input!
> -- 
> John Blacet
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Derek Holzer, I don't know anything about curcuit boards, but isn't
the distorted sine problem a design flaw, not a feature flaw? What I
mean is, even if that waveshaping knob wasn't included, you probably
wouldn't be able to get a less buzzy sine. It just takes a good set of
ears to make sure you got the waveshape knob set right. Other
oscillators are designed differently and have imperfect sines that are
not buzzy, but have some additional harmonics, which is much better
than buzzy IMO. I think this is the case with Plan B VCO and Tip Top
Audio VCO.

Ditto - and I have a frac rack miniwave...


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Sorry - that's ditto to Bakis's comment about an assembled one.

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:39 PM, Pierre Zeeman <
infrequent.listener@gmail.com> wrote:

> Ditto - and I have a frac rack miniwave...
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hi,

sure, you can never get a perfect sine out of an analog circuit, but the 
AS VCO has a knob which shapes the wave from a sinusoid in the middle to 
a triangular waveform at the edges. If you don't get the knob *exactly* 
in the middle, the wave sounds very angular already. A dedicated sine 
output might have been a better idea to keep more of the buzz out. This 
said, voltage controlled waveshaping is definitely a feature which I 
like most of the time. But I tend to want a fairly clear tone some 
times, and this particular feature set makes it difficult to get. Even a 
center-detent in the pot would have made it easier.

best,
D.

Argitoth wrote:
> Derek Holzer, I don't know anything about curcuit boards, but isn't
> the distorted sine problem a design flaw, not a feature flaw? What I
> mean is, even if that waveshaping knob wasn't included, you probably
> wouldn't be able to get a less buzzy sine. It just takes a good set of
> ears to make sure you got the waveshape knob set right. Other
> oscillators are designed differently and have imperfect sines that are
> not buzzy, but have some additional harmonics, which is much better
> than buzzy IMO. I think this is the case with Plan B VCO and Tip Top
> Audio VCO.


-- 
derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl ::: http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
---Oblique Strategy # 170:
"Use something nearby as a model"

John,

The problem with a EuroRack miniwave is that it is too deep to fit
into any of the Doepfer suitcase cabinets.  I don't expect you to
layout the board again to make it fit but it is a constraint for some
EuroRack users.

I'm contemplating replacing a FracRack with a Doepfer G3 or G6 to
re-house my 3 miniwaves and other modules.

Oh, and if you could provide knobs with adjustable pointers so that
fully CCW was at 7 o'clock and fully CW was at 5 o'clock like the rest
of the knobs in the world, that would remove my main ergonomic
complaint about your modules!

   Eric

And I just broke down and rocked a frac...

On 11/23/08, Pierre Zeeman <infrequent.listener@gmail.com> wrote:
> Sorry - that's ditto to Bakis's comment about an assembled one.
>
> On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:39 PM, Pierre Zeeman <
> infrequent.listener@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Ditto - and I have a frac rack miniwave...
>>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

actually the A143-9 Quadrature LFO makes a near perfect sine.I'm curious
what Dieter's quadrature VCO will sound like!

Ernst


On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Derek Holzer <derek@umatic.nl> wrote:

>   Hi,
>
> sure, you can never get a perfect sine out of an analog circuit, but the
> AS VCO has a knob which shapes the wave from a sinusoid in the middle to
> a triangular waveform at the edges. If you don't get the knob *exactly*
> in the middle, the wave sounds very angular already. A dedicated sine
> output might have been a better idea to keep more of the buzz out. This
> said, voltage controlled waveshaping is definitely a feature which I
> like most of the time. But I tend to want a fairly clear tone some
> times, and this particular feature set makes it difficult to get. Even a
> center-detent in the pot would have made it easier.
>
> best,
> D.
>
>
> Argitoth wrote:
> > Derek Holzer, I don't know anything about curcuit boards, but isn't
> > the distorted sine problem a design flaw, not a feature flaw? What I
> > mean is, even if that waveshaping knob wasn't included, you probably
> > wouldn't be able to get a less buzzy sine. It just takes a good set of
> > ears to make sure you got the waveshape knob set right. Other
> > oscillators are designed differently and have imperfect sines that are
> > not buzzy, but have some additional harmonics, which is much better
> > than buzzy IMO. I think this is the case with Plan B VCO and Tip Top
> > Audio VCO.
>
> --
> derek holzer ::: http://www.umatic.nl :::
> http://blog.myspace.com/macumbista
> ---Oblique Strategy # 170:
> "Use something nearby as a model"
>
>  
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

The only obstacle might be the size of the board since so many euro
users have the suitcase, which the miniwave will not fit w/o
separating the board from the face like noissource did. Fits fine in
my Analogue Systems case and I think other rackmount cases.

-Don

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:59 PM, John Blacet <blacet@blacet.com> wrote:
> I'm trying to decide if this would generate any interest?
>
> We can redo the PCB so that it has a Doepfer connector and will work on
> 12V. There is a source for a nice Doepfer style front panel. An assembled
> board with pots, LEDs installed would go for $199. You or a specific
> vendor would add the front panel, knobs, jacks, switches, power cable and
> wire up the jacks and switches. I would expect about a $299 price on this
> complete unit.
>
> Thanks for the input!
> --
> John Blacet
>
>

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 03:14:04PM -0800, Don Kim wrote:
 > The only obstacle might be the size of the board since so many euro
 > users have the suitcase, which the miniwave will not fit w/o
 > separating the board from the face like noissource did. Fits fine in
 > my Analogue Systems case and I think other rackmount cases.

I found it to be a tiny bit too deep even for the G6's.
The only way I got it in there was by moving one of the busboards
an inch to the left, and then putting the miniwave on the right hand side.

Pics at http://www.flickr.com/photos/kernelslacker/sets/72157608437095043/

	Dave 

-- 
http://www.codemonkey.org.uk

I would LOVE a Miniwave in 12V, particularly if the board could fit in a
A100P-depth case.
I've got 2 mounted in a rack, but I can't take em out to gig, at least not
very practically.

Thanks,
Daniel

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 12:59 PM, John Blacet <blacet@blacet.com> wrote:

> I'm trying to decide if this would generate any interest?
>
> We can redo the PCB so that it has a Doepfer connector and will work on
> 12V. There is a source for a nice Doepfer style front panel. An assembled
> board with pots, LEDs installed would go for $199. You or a specific
> vendor would add the front panel, knobs, jacks, switches, power cable and
> wire up the jacks and switches. I would expect about a $299 price on this
> complete unit.
>
> Thanks for the input!
> --
> John Blacet
>
>
> ------------------------------------
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.    
-     http://vimeo.com/2206614
That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum display  
shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on  
the spectrum display. . All I can hope is the distortion is caused by  
something downstream between the VCO and the scope. Does anyone who  
has a z3000 and a scope and can tell me if this setup was just faulty  
or does the unit make sines as shown in the vid? The other waveforms  
shown are not to good on this demo either - the sawtooth and triangles  
look like they sag and the square waves are not square with flat tops  
and bottoms.
-James


On Nov 23, 2008, at 3:03 PM, achtung_999 wrote:

> actually the A143-9 Quadrature LFO makes a near perfect sine.I'm  
> curious
> what Dieter's quadrature VCO will sound like!
>
> Ernst
>



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOgA8Q-MtH8
scope of my Z3000 FMed by PlanB M15

On Sun, Nov 23, 2008 at 9:32 PM, James Husted <ersatzplanet@mac.com> wrote:
> I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.
> - http://vimeo.com/2206614
> That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum display
> shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on
> the spectrum display. . All I can hope is the distortion is caused by
> something downstream between the VCO and the scope. Does anyone who
> has a z3000 and a scope and can tell me if this setup was just faulty
> or does the unit make sines as shown in the vid? The other waveforms
> shown are not to good on this demo either - the sawtooth and triangles
> look like they sag and the square waves are not square with flat tops
> and bottoms.
> -James
>
> On Nov 23, 2008, at 3:03 PM, achtung_999 wrote:
>
>> actually the A143-9 Quadrature LFO makes a near perfect sine.I'm
>> curious
>> what Dieter's quadrature VCO will sound like!
>>
>> Ernst
>>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>

> I would LOVE a Miniwave in 12V, particularly if the board could fit in a
> A100P-depth case.
> I've got 2 mounted in a rack, but I can't take em out to gig, at least not
> very practically.
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel

Please refer to my message from Nov.21, 2007:

"We developed kind of a miniwave many years ago. Its more than 7 years ago
as
the pc board was made with our old Atari based pcb layout software (Ingo:
maybe you remember this board with the two rotary switches to select the
table group, I showed it to you at your last visit). We never released it as
we wanted to have the original PPG wave set available but could not get the
permission. The problem was to find out who is the owner of the copyrights
(Wolfgang Palm or Waldorf or ???) and where we could get the valid
permission. The most important part of a miniwave are the wavetables stored
in the EPROM. The controlling electronics itself is very simple, nothing but
some fast ADCs that address the EPROM and a DAC that reads the EPROM data.
E.g. we
could release a miniwave without EPROM or with some basic wavetables only as
I have no idea concerning the copyrights of wavetables. I don't want to deal
with such judical affairs but develop modules ..."

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

So here's the A-106-1 demo I promised: 
http://www.elanhickler.com/misc/analog_techno.mp3

-Analogue Systems VCO 
-A-136 Waveshaper (used to shape the initial waveform)
-A-106-1 Xtreme Filter (highpass only) 
-random voltage --> VCO Pitch Modulation in some cases. 
-Recorded everything twice over, sometimes with different modulation 
for a nice stereo sound. 

-Digital synth percussion 
-Software Compression 
-Software Delay 
-Software Reverb

I know there's a lot going on in there and it's not just an A-106-1, 
but the sounds I'm getting in this demo with the filter cannot be 
reproduced easily with another filter. I don't think I'd want to try 
it with another filter. A-106-1 just has a nice set of features not 
found on any other filter.

Hi James;

Tiptop didn't set out to make a perfect sine - in fact, one of the
things that the testers talked about during beta was just how
wonderful this sine _sounds_. I agree that I wouldn't use this sine as
a LFO source for the perfect panner or some-such, but you really
should hear this one in a track.

And to that point, the sound of this module (specifically the sine)
doesn't have as much to do with the sine itself, but how the VCO gets
you between pitches. :) That's what you really wanna hear.

I (and I figure most of us here) have a LOT of VCOs in their system.
They each have their place, and sometimes many places. The Tiptop has
created it's niche too. :)

Mark
-----
--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, James Husted <ersatzplanet@...>
wrote:

>
> I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.    
> -     http://vimeo.com/2206614
> That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum display  
> shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on  
> the spectrum display.

I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a "perfect" sine. 
Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion. That 's what defines a 
sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.

It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer to intentionally make a 
buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least label it something more 
accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-) 

You can always start with a clean sine and add distortion as needed, but you can't go the 
other way and cleanly remove the buzz  to get a decent sine. I'm guessing those 
rationalizing against the usefulness of clean sine waves for music synthesis have never 
even used one (since nobody seems to make them anymore...).  




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Hi James;
> 
> Tiptop didn't set out to make a perfect sine - in fact, one of the
> things that the testers talked about during beta was just how
> wonderful this sine _sounds_. I agree that I wouldn't use this sine as
> a LFO source for the perfect panner or some-such, but you really
> should hear this one in a track.
> 
> And to that point, the sound of this module (specifically the sine)
> doesn't have as much to do with the sine itself, but how the VCO gets
> you between pitches. :) That's what you really wanna hear.
> 
> I (and I figure most of us here) have a LOT of VCOs in their system.
> They each have their place, and sometimes many places. The Tiptop has
> created it's niche too. :)
> 
> Mark
> -----
> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, James Husted <ersatzplanet@>
> wrote:
> >
> > I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.    
> > -     http://vimeo.com/2206614
> > That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum display  
> > shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on  
> > the spectrum display.
>

Are there audible harmonics in addition to the fundamental?


--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pulver <mark@...> wrote:

>
> 
> Ummm, there's nothing "buzzy" about the sine in the Z3000. I think that 
> word was being used in the thread for another VCO.
> 
> -----
> laryn91 (09:34 AM 11/25/2008) wrote:
>  >I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a "perfect" 
> sine.
>  >Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion. That 's
>  >what defines a
>  >sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.
>  >
>  >It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer to
>  >intentionally make a
>  >buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least label it
>  >something more
>  >accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-)
>  >
>  >You can always start with a clean sine and add distortion as needed, but you
>  >can't go the
>  >other way and cleanly remove the buzz  to get a decent sine. I'm guessing
>  >those
>  >rationalizing against the usefulness of clean sine waves for music synthesis
>  >have never
>  >even used one (since nobody seems to make them anymore...).
>  >
>  >
>  >--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark@> wrote:
>  >>
>  >>
>  >> Hi James;
>  >>
>  >> Tiptop didn't set out to make a perfect sine - in fact, one of the
>  >> things that the testers talked about during beta was just how
>  >> wonderful this sine _sounds_. I agree that I wouldn't use this sine as
>  >> a LFO source for the perfect panner or some-such, but you really
>  >> should hear this one in a track.
>  >>
>  >> And to that point, the sound of this module (specifically the sine)
>  >> doesn't have as much to do with the sine itself, but how the VCO gets
>  >> you between pitches. :) That's what you really wanna hear.
>  >>
>  >> I (and I figure most of us here) have a LOT of VCOs in their system.
>  >> They each have their place, and sometimes many places. The Tiptop has
>  >> created it's niche too. :)
>  >>
>  >> Mark
>  >> -----
>  >> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, James Husted <ersatzplanet@>
>  >> wrote:
>  >> >
>  >> > I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.
>  >> > -     http://vimeo.com/2206614
>  >> > That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum display
>  >> > shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on
>  >> > the spectrum display.
>  >>
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >
>  >------------------------------------
>  >
>  >Yahoo! Groups Links
>  >
>  >
>  >
>

Hove you successfully done this or just hypothesizing? 

1 - VCFs don't track nearly as accurately as VCOs so I can hear timbre changes when pitch 
changes

2 - The VCF introduces a phase shift so the VCO waves are no longer sync'd in a 
determined way.

3 - The level of the "sine" changes as pitch changes


"Harmonically rich" sine wave - that's a funny oxymoron :-)




--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Argitoth <argitoth@...> wrote:

>
> Yeah, exactly! I figured Tip Top Audioo VCO sine was NOT buzzy, but
> just harmonically rich, there's a huge difference. Buzzy sounds like
> "ZZZZZ," harmonically rich sounds like, "VVVVV." Buzzy, BAD,
> harmonically rich, ACCEPTABLE.
> 
> Holy crap, did you just notice that the letter V looks like a triangle
> wave and the letter Z looks like a saw wave?.... sweeet!
> 
> And you CAN reduce buzzyness if you dedicate a filter to waveshaping
> to reducing the harmonics and if you send it some of the 1v/oct to its
> cutoff voltage control so that the filter opens up more as you play
> higher notes and closes more if you are playing lower notes.
>

Ummm, there's nothing "buzzy" about the sine in the Z3000. I think that 
word was being used in the thread for another VCO.

-----
laryn91 (09:34 AM 11/25/2008) wrote:
 >I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a "perfect" 
sine.

 >Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion. That 's
 >what defines a
 >sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.
 >
 >It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer to
 >intentionally make a
 >buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least label it
 >something more
 >accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-)
 >
 >You can always start with a clean sine and add distortion as needed, but you
 >can't go the
 >other way and cleanly remove the buzz  to get a decent sine. I'm guessing
 >those
 >rationalizing against the usefulness of clean sine waves for music synthesis
 >have never
 >even used one (since nobody seems to make them anymore...).
 >
 >
 >--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark@...> wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >> Hi James;
 >>
 >> Tiptop didn't set out to make a perfect sine - in fact, one of the
 >> things that the testers talked about during beta was just how
 >> wonderful this sine _sounds_. I agree that I wouldn't use this sine as
 >> a LFO source for the perfect panner or some-such, but you really
 >> should hear this one in a track.
 >>
 >> And to that point, the sound of this module (specifically the sine)
 >> doesn't have as much to do with the sine itself, but how the VCO gets
 >> you between pitches. :) That's what you really wanna hear.
 >>
 >> I (and I figure most of us here) have a LOT of VCOs in their system.
 >> They each have their place, and sometimes many places. The Tiptop has
 >> created it's niche too. :)
 >>
 >> Mark
 >> -----
 >> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, James Husted <ersatzplanet@>
 >> wrote:
 >> >
 >> > I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.
 >> > -     http://vimeo.com/2206614
 >> > That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum display
 >> > shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on
 >> > the spectrum display.
 >>
 >
 >
 >
 >
 >------------------------------------
 >
 >Yahoo! Groups Links
 >
 >
 >

Yeah, exactly! I figured Tip Top Audioo VCO sine was NOT buzzy, but
just harmonically rich, there's a huge difference. Buzzy sounds like
"ZZZZZ," harmonically rich sounds like, "VVVVV." Buzzy, BAD,
harmonically rich, ACCEPTABLE.

Holy crap, did you just notice that the letter V looks like a triangle
wave and the letter Z looks like a saw wave?.... sweeet!

And you CAN reduce buzzyness if you dedicate a filter to waveshaping
to reducing the harmonics and if you send it some of the 1v/oct to its
cutoff voltage control so that the filter opens up more as you play
higher notes and closes more if you are playing lower notes.

and O is circular, sine = circular, produces an "OOOOO" sound. SWEET!
Some letters actually look like their sounds.

On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com> wrote:
> Yeah, exactly! I figured Tip Top Audioo VCO sine was NOT buzzy, but
> just harmonically rich, there's a huge difference. Buzzy sounds like
> "ZZZZZ," harmonically rich sounds like, "VVVVV." Buzzy, BAD,
> harmonically rich, ACCEPTABLE.
>
> Holy crap, did you just notice that the letter V looks like a triangle
> wave and the letter Z looks like a saw wave?.... sweeet!
>
> And you CAN reduce buzzyness if you dedicate a filter to waveshaping
> to reducing the harmonics and if you send it some of the 1v/oct to its
> cutoff voltage control so that the filter opens up more as you play
> higher notes and closes more if you are playing lower notes.
>



-- 
www.elanhickler.com

On Nov 25, 2008, at 10:38 AM, laryn91 wrote:

> 1 - VCFs don't track nearly as accurately as VCOs so I can hear  
> timbre changes when pitch
> changes


I'm not sure that there's anything inherent in filters that make it  
harder to get them to track. That said, for sure they don't get the  
tracking attention that an oscillator gets.

-C

Chris Muir
cbm@well.com	
http://www.xfade.com

Worst. Thread. Ever.

Sent from my iPhone

On Nov 25, 2008, at 10:25 AM, Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com> wrote:

> and O is circular, sine = circular, produces an "OOOOO" sound. SWEET!
> Some letters actually look like their sounds.
>
> On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 11:24 AM, Argitoth <argitoth@gmail.com> wrote:
> > Yeah, exactly! I figured Tip Top Audioo VCO sine was NOT buzzy, but
> > just harmonically rich, there's a huge difference. Buzzy sounds like
> > "ZZZZZ," harmonically rich sounds like, "VVVVV." Buzzy, BAD,
> > harmonically rich, ACCEPTABLE.
> >
> > Holy crap, did you just notice that the letter V looks like a  
> triangle
> > wave and the letter Z looks like a saw wave?.... sweeet!
> >
> > And you CAN reduce buzzyness if you dedicate a filter to waveshaping
> > to reducing the harmonics and if you send it some of the 1v/oct to  
> its
> > cutoff voltage control so that the filter opens up more as you play
> > higher notes and closes more if you are playing lower notes.
> >
>
> -- 
> www.elanhickler.com
> 


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

I'm not at home, and I get the impression that you're gonna want an 
absolute answer not something from memory, so I'm dodging your question 
right now.

But, I'd like to comment in a different way against your statement:

   >I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce
   >a "perfect" sine.
   >Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or
   >distortion. That's what defines a sine - just the fundamental
   >component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.

Technically, "sine" could be the puritan quality you're talking about, or a 
reference to something that's sinusoidal.

And yeah, I'm picking at nits, kinda' like you are. :)

The Z3000 "sine" is not a pure sine, it's a sinusoidal waveform that is 
"just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion".


Mark
-----
laryn91 (09:59 AM 11/25/2008) wrote:
 >Are there audible harmonics in addition to the fundamental?
 >
 >
 >--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Mark Pulver <mark@...> wrote:
 >>
 >>
 >> Ummm, there's nothing "buzzy" about the sine in the Z3000. I think that
 >> word was being used in the thread for another VCO.
 >>
 >> -----
 >> laryn91 (09:34 AM 11/25/2008) wrote:
 >>  >I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a "perfect"
 >> sine.
 >>  >Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion. That 's
 >>  >what defines a
 >>  >sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.
 >>  >
 >>  >It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer to
 >>  >intentionally make a
 >>  >buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least label it
 >>  >something more
 >>  >accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-)
 >>  >
 >>  >You can always start with a clean sine and add distortion as needed, but
 >you
 >>  >can't go the
 >>  >other way and cleanly remove the buzz  to get a decent sine. I'm guessing
 >>  >those
 >>  >rationalizing against the usefulness of clean sine waves for music
 >synthesis
 >>  >have never
 >>  >even used one (since nobody seems to make them anymore...).
 >>  >
 >>  >
 >>  >--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "Mark" <mark@> wrote:
 >>  >>
 >>  >>
 >>  >> Hi James;
 >>  >>
 >>  >> Tiptop didn't set out to make a perfect sine - in fact, one of the
 >>  >> things that the testers talked about during beta was just how
 >>  >> wonderful this sine _sounds_. I agree that I wouldn't use this sine as
 >>  >> a LFO source for the perfect panner or some-such, but you really
 >>  >> should hear this one in a track.
 >>  >>
 >>  >> And to that point, the sound of this module (specifically the sine)
 >>  >> doesn't have as much to do with the sine itself, but how the VCO gets
 >>  >> you between pitches. :) That's what you really wanna hear.
 >>  >>
 >>  >> I (and I figure most of us here) have a LOT of VCOs in their system.
 >>  >> They each have their place, and sometimes many places. The Tiptop has
 >>  >> created it's niche too. :)
 >>  >>
 >>  >> Mark
 >>  >> -----
 >>  >> --- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, James Husted <ersatzplanet@>
 >>  >> wrote:
 >>  >> >
 >>  >> > I was hot for the Tiptop VCO till I saw this video made about it.
 >>  >> > -     http://vimeo.com/2206614
 >>  >> > That is one of the worst sine waves I've seen and the spectrum 
display
 >>  >> > shows many harmonics that shouldn't be there. I count at least 7 on
 >>  >> > the spectrum display.

8. Backfires on Argitoth and everyone hates him instead <-- oops.

I was looking for four cv/gate channels in euro format. I went with 
the PAiA and made a faceplate. I realize this is not the answer you 
wanted. :)

Doug

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, "John Blacet" <blacet@...> 
wrote:
>
> OK, enough about sine waves.....sheesh. (No natural instrument has 
a
> "good" sine wave).
> 
> I'm designing a MIDI converter. MIDI to CV plus sequencer 
commands. It's
> monophonic.
> 
> Preliminary panel picture on blacet.com.
> 
> What do you folks find absolutley essential about these things, 
(which can
> have a huge and varied feature set)?
> 
> What is just fluff?
> 
> And what is stuff that you never see but could find useful?
> 
> After fooling around with the Paia unit, the Doepfer 190-1 and a 
Edirol
> PCR-300 controller keyboard, not to mention looking at specs of 
the Kenton
> Pro Solo (which seems to be very comprehensive), I'm wondering 
just what

> the ideal "entry level" unit for a modular would be?
> -- 
> John Blacet
>

OK, enough about sine waves.....sheesh. (No natural instrument has a
"good" sine wave).

I'm designing a MIDI converter. MIDI to CV plus sequencer commands. It's
monophonic.

Preliminary panel picture on blacet.com.

What do you folks find absolutley essential about these things, (which can
have a huge and varied feature set)?

What is just fluff?

And what is stuff that you never see but could find useful?

After fooling around with the Paia unit, the Doepfer 190-1 and a Edirol
PCR-300 controller keyboard, not to mention looking at specs of the Kenton
Pro Solo (which seems to be very comprehensive), I'm wondering just what
the ideal "entry level" unit for a modular would be?
-- 
John Blacet

--- In Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com, Bakis Sirros <synth_freak_2000@...> wrote:
>
> as long as it contained new interesting wavetables, i would not care at all if these where 
PPG wavetables, or not.
>  
> so, a Doepfer wavetable Osc, with new wavetables, would be very interesting for me! (and 
not only for me i guess).

I'd love to see a different take on a wavetable oscillator.  As much as I like the PPG set and the 
Blacet Miniwave I think a radical new set of wavetables would be very attractive to many 
people especially if some new control functions could also be implemented.

Thighpaulsandra

i assume you will make this in euro format also, hence the question in this group, right?
it would be great if you would make some Blacet modules in euro!


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Tue, 11/25/08, John Blacet <blacet@blacet.com> wrote:

From: John Blacet <blacet@blacet.com>
Subject: [Doepfer_a100] MIDI Converter Design?
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, November 25, 2008, 11:33 PM






OK, enough about sine waves.....sheesh. (No natural instrument has a
"good" sine wave).

I'm designing a MIDI converter. MIDI to CV plus sequencer commands. It's
monophonic.

Preliminary panel picture on blacet.com.

What do you folks find absolutley essential about these things, (which can
have a huge and varied feature set)?

What is just fluff?

And what is stuff that you never see but could find useful?

After fooling around with the Paia unit, the Doepfer 190-1 and a Edirol
PCR-300 controller keyboard, not to mention looking at specs of the Kenton
Pro Solo (which seems to be very comprehensive) , I'm wondering just what
the ideal "entry level" unit for a modular would be?
-- 
John Blacet

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

as long as it contained new interesting wavetables, i would not care at all if these where PPG wavetables, or not.
 
so, a Doepfer wavetable Osc, with new wavetables, would be very interesting for me! (and not only for me i guess).


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Mon, 11/24/08, yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Mini Wave in Eurorack?
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, November 24, 2008, 1:15 PM






> I would LOVE a Miniwave in 12V, particularly if the board could fit in a
> A100P-depth case.
> I've got 2 mounted in a rack, but I can't take em out to gig, at least not
> very practically.
>
> Thanks,
> Daniel

Please refer to my message from Nov.21, 2007:

"We developed kind of a miniwave many years ago. Its more than 7 years ago
as
the pc board was made with our old Atari based pcb layout software (Ingo:
maybe you remember this board with the two rotary switches to select the
table group, I showed it to you at your last visit). We never released it as
we wanted to have the original PPG wave set available but could not get the
permission. The problem was to find out who is the owner of the copyrights
(Wolfgang Palm or Waldorf or ???) and where we could get the valid
permission. The most important part of a miniwave are the wavetables stored
in the EPROM. The controlling electronics itself is very simple, nothing but
some fast ADCs that address the EPROM and a DAC that reads the EPROM data.
E.g. we
could release a miniwave without EPROM or with some basic wavetables only as
I have no idea concerning the copyrights of wavetables. I don't want to deal
with such judical affairs but develop modules ..."

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Hello Mr. Blacet,

I'm currently using 2 x Analogue Solutions M2CV units. The only thing that I would think 
to add to these would be a DIP switch, or rotary selector, that would 'hard-set' the MIDI 
channel. This would be in addition to having the very handy MIDI Learn button/feature. I 
don't think that it would be necessary to have more than a few 'hard' MIDI channel 
receive settings, PLUS the 'MIDI Learn' button. 

Practical Application:

The Doepfer MAQ Sequencer has one MIDI Out. When daisy-chaining a couple (or 
conceivably more) of the M2CVs, it is a bit of a bother to set all of the rows on the MAQ 
(there are 3) to the same MIDI channel, press PLAY, Press MIDI Learn on one M2CV, Press 
STOP, then change all rows on the MAQ to another MIDI channel, press PLAY... etc. Doing 
this 3 times and then resetting each row on the MAQ to its desired MIDI channel can be a 
PITA. If the system is powered down one must do the whole process again.
Imagine this process with something like the Genoqs Octopus and a bunch of MIDI to CV 
interfaces.

So, if we had an 8 position DIP switch or rotary, we could reserve the 1st 7 positions as 
Channels 1-7 and the 8th position as "MIDI Learn".

Naturally, this would only apply if MIDI Through were to be added to your design as 
posted on Blacet.com

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~concuss/concussor/m2cv.htm

> I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a
> "perfect" sine.
> Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion.
> That 's what defines a
> sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.
>
> It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer
> to intentionally make a
> buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least
> label it something more
> accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-)

I'd recommend to read the information about a product. On our A-110 info
page it is clearly specified:

"The core of the A-110 is a sawtooth oscillator (in contrast to the A-111-1,
which is based on a triangle oscillator). The other waveforms are derived
from the sawtooth by internal waveform converters. As the sawtooth reset
(i.e. the back-to-zero slope) is not infinite fast but takes a little bit of
time the derived waveforms triangle and sine are not perfect ! At the top of
the waveform they have a small glitch or notch that is caused by the
sawtooth reset and cannot be eliminated by the waveform converters. The sine
is derived from the triangle by a simple diode-based converter and the sine
shape is not perfect (only a rounded triangle). If a perfect triangle is
required the A-111-1 is recommended. For a perfect sine the quadrature
LFO/VCO A-143-9 is recommended."

We could enlarge the A-110 front panel from 10 to 20 HP for you to to have
this information also available at the front panel :-)

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

good idea!     ;-)


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Wed, 11/26/08, yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:

From: yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de>
Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular - Z3000 waveform quality?
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:39 AM






> I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a
> "perfect" sine.
> Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion.
> That 's what defines a
> sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.
>
> It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer
> to intentionally make a
> buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least
> label it something more
> accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-)

I'd recommend to read the information about a product. On our A-110 info
page it is clearly specified:

"The core of the A-110 is a sawtooth oscillator (in contrast to the A-111-1,
which is based on a triangle oscillator). The other waveforms are derived
from the sawtooth by internal waveform converters. As the sawtooth reset
(i.e. the back-to-zero slope) is not infinite fast but takes a little bit of
time the derived waveforms triangle and sine are not perfect ! At the top of
the waveform they have a small glitch or notch that is caused by the
sawtooth reset and cannot be eliminated by the waveform converters. The sine
is derived from the triangle by a simple diode-based converter and the sine
shape is not perfect (only a rounded triangle). If a perfect triangle is
required the A-111-1 is recommended. For a perfect sine the quadrature
LFO/VCO A-143-9 is recommended. "

We could enlarge the A-110 front panel from 10 to 20 HP for you to to have
this information also available at the front panel :-)

Best wishes
Dieter Doepfer

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Probably should be added as a poll to "new module ideas" ;)

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 11:49:00 +0200, Bakis Sirros  
<synth_freak_2000@yahoo.com> wrote:

> good idea!     ;-)
>
>
> Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
> [Doepfer_a100] group owner
> www. parallel - worlds - music. com
> www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
> www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
> www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
> www. DiN. org. uk
> www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
> www. shimarecords. co. uk
> www. rubberrecords. gr
> Athens - Greece
>
> --- On Wed, 11/26/08, yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de> wrote:
>
> From: yahoo@doepfer.de <yahoo@doepfer.de>
> Subject: AW: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular - Z3000 waveform  
> quality?
> To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 11:39 AM
>
>
>
>
>
>
>> I don't think anyone is advocating that VCOs should produce a
>> "perfect" sine.
>> Just simply a clean wave what has no audible buzz or distortion.
>> That 's what defines a
>> sine - just the fundamental component. Anything else is NOT A SINE WAVE.
>>
>> It seems either ignorant, sloppy or misleading for a manufacturer
>> to intentionally make a
>> buzzy wave and then spec it as "sine" wave. At the very least
>> label it something more
>> accurate like "buzzy wave beta testers like" ;-)
>
> I'd recommend to read the information about a product. On our A-110 info
> page it is clearly specified:
>
> "The core of the A-110 is a sawtooth oscillator (in contrast to the  
> A-111-1,
> which is based on a triangle oscillator). The other waveforms are derived
> from the sawtooth by internal waveform converters. As the sawtooth reset
> (i.e. the back-to-zero slope) is not infinite fast but takes a little  
> bit of
> time the derived waveforms triangle and sine are not perfect ! At the  
> top of
> the waveform they have a small glitch or notch that is caused by the
> sawtooth reset and cannot be eliminated by the waveform converters. The  
> sine
> is derived from the triangle by a simple diode-based converter and the  
> sine
> shape is not perfect (only a rounded triangle). If a perfect triangle is
> required the A-111-1 is recommended. For a perfect sine the quadrature
> LFO/VCO A-143-9 is recommended. "
>
> We could enlarge the A-110 front panel from 10 to 20 HP for you to to  
> have
> this information also available at the front panel :-)
>
> Best wishes
> Dieter Doepfer
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>



-- 
Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/

Yes, especially a completely assembled unit would definitely generate  
interest with me :-)


Cheers,
d


On Nov 23, 2008, at 9:59 PM, John Blacet wrote:

> I'm trying to decide if this would generate any interest?
>
> We can redo the PCB so that it has a Doepfer connector and will work  
> on
> 12V. There is a source for a nice Doepfer style front panel. An  
> assembled
> board with pots, LEDs installed would go for $199. You or a specific
> vendor would add the front panel, knobs, jacks, switches, power  
> cable and
> wire up the jacks and switches. I would expect about a $299 price on  
> this
> complete unit.
>
> Thanks for the input!
> -- 
> John Blacet
>
>
> 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

One should really let one's ears judge these things. The special quality of sine waves at least 
to me is one shouldn't be hearing any harmonics at all. If you do then it's "almost a sine" or a 
distorted sine, or something but not a sine. Unfortunately I heard that way back in the 1990s 
with my A-110s and do think it's a legitimate criticism. Will I stop using my A-110 modules? 
No, they are compact, inexpensive and useful for a lot of things, just not clear sine waves if 
that's what I want. 

One thing I can add is sometimes VCOs that aren't even close to textbook can be very 
special. The early Korg VCOs on units like the 700 and 800 I've seen have some really 
"incorrect" shaped waves but sound exceptional, if cloned I'd definitely want some, but just 
the opposite is true too. I have to say that CEM waveforms in general seem pretty good 
visually and are certainly not terrible sounding though I have to say I've heard much better 
sounding basic waves, especially in the very high and low ranges.

I picked up a Z3000 because it seemed kind of interesting and I happened to have had the 
money on hand. I think it's working okay now but I had a lot of trouble initially. I had it next 
to a Plan B Model and it wasn't happy at all power-wise. Maybe my case is underpowered. 
Anyway the display was crashing and generally not working. It did seem to work eventually.

Poop.

 



[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

hi Group,
 
ALL opinions are respectable in this group.
some people want pure sinewaves, others do not care. 
both have the right to their opinion.
 
but, please, no posts like the 'poop' one above...
 
thanks for your understanding,
best regards,
Bakis.
 


Bakis Sirros - Parallel Worlds / Interconnected / Memory Geist
[Doepfer_a100] group owner
www. parallel - worlds - music. com
www. myspace. com/ parallelworldsmusic
www. myspace. com/ interconnectedmusic
www. myspace. com/ memorygeist
www. DiN. org. uk
www. musicamaximamagnetica. com
www. shimarecords. co. uk
www. rubberrecords. gr
Athens - Greece

--- On Sun, 11/30/08, jared <microcosm11@msn.com> wrote:

From: jared <microcosm11@msn.com>
Subject: RE: [Doepfer_a100] Re: starting a modular - Z3000 waveform quality?
To: Doepfer_a100@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, November 30, 2008, 12:53 AM






Poop.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

 














      

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]